[Saint John] Uptown Thread

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Small project update:

177 King E, a 3 to 5 unit by the looks of it, is being gutted. Not sure if it was inhabited before, but the basement unit certainly wasn't.

83 Mecklenburg, a beautiful flat over flat three-unit I briefly owned, is progressing. It should be premium housing.

The 4 townhouse development at Queen S and Charlotte is reportedly starting in the summer.

Reportedly there is a 6+ unit project planned for 252-254 Carmarthen (corner of St James and Carmarthen) that should materialize by spring.

It all adds up! The Mecklenburg one is particularly interesting because it’s a new water mark on how south investment dollars are going. I’m confident it will spread out from there - especially the former recycling depot lot.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

It all adds up! The Mecklenburg one is particularly interesting because it’s a new water mark on how south investment dollars are going. I’m confident it will spread out from there - especially the former recycling depot lot.

Yeah, apparently all the recycling lots are owned by the same person. Carmarthen is one to watch too.

I finished the interior of 194-196 Duke and sold it in November. Two units currently but the new owners are adding a third and doing the exterior in the spring.

Just to its south, 133 Carmarthen was also vacant a year ago and now has been renovated inside and out. Two units.

170 across the street has been purchased again and the new owners are converting it to a single family townhouse.

It would be nice to see the City replace the street trees that were destroyed while the street was mostly vacant, now that it's nearing full occupancy.

[bridgeoftea]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Yeah, apparently all the recycling lots are owned by the same person. Carmarthen is one to watch too.

I finished the interior of 194-196 Duke and sold it in November. Two units currently but the new owners are adding a third and doing the exterior in the spring.

Just to its south, 133 Carmarthen was also vacant a year ago and now has been renovated inside and out. Two units.

170 across the street has been purchased again and the new owners are converting it to a single family townhouse.

It would be nice to see the City replace the street trees that were destroyed while the street was mostly vacant, now that it's nearing full occupancy.

I'd love to see more trees added on some of the roads in uptown. Gives the area a little lift with that extra greenery.

[RR Drummer]

https://ift.tt/3re9Li9 Interesting CBC article I seen on Twitter about a recent acquisition of apartments in Saint John, Uptown & East. Two sided coin in a nutshell for sure. Thoughts?

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by RR Drummer

https://ift.tt/3re9Li9 Interesting CBC article I seen on Twitter about a recent acquisition of apartments in Saint John, Uptown & East. Two sided coin in a nutshell for sure. Thoughts?

Pros and Cons to everything. Bottom line is it’s a vote of confidence that investors are attracted to Saint John. This is good for the construction industry and revitalizing pockets of the city. The housing stock is being upgraded instead of torn down. Some of these investors are saving buildings from destruction years down the road. The increased value is good for the tax base. The big con is that low income renters are the ones paying the price. We do not have enough affordable housing to place these folks in. The city needs 2500 affordable units as of yesterday. The gentrification is moving so fast in conjunction with rising cost of living; increased demand from out of province folks; with little to no significant investment in public housing. Afraid for these folks.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Pros and Cons to everything. Bottom line is it’s a vote of confidence that investors are attracted to Saint John. This is good for the construction industry and revitalizing pockets of the city. The housing stock is being upgraded instead of torn down. Some of these investors are saving buildings from destruction years down the road. The increased value is good for the tax base. The big con is that low income renters are the ones paying the price. We do not have enough affordable housing to place these folks in. The city needs 2500 affordable units as of yesterday. The gentrification is moving so fast in conjunction with rising cost of living; increased demand from out of province folks; with little to no significant investment in public housing. Afraid for these folks.

It's a common issue in many cities right now. In larger cities it's becoming increasingly difficult for lower-income and service industry workers to live in the cities they work in, forcing them to commute for untenable times and distances. Saint John doesn't really have this option and is already overly sprawly to begin with. It's a city's responsibility to ensure housing options are available and it's unfortunate that the province doesn't seem too motivated wrt moving the needle on affordable housing options. It's lazy policy to see interprovincial buyers outpricing and gentrifying locals and doing nothing in response to support the incoming movement of current residents.

[adamuptownsj]

We should be encouraging more coops and true non-profit housing to keep aging stock affordable and maintained, instead of subsidizing new construction to include 'affordable' units. SJNPH should be getting the money taxpayers are forking over to developers to subsidize certain rents in new projects.

Saint John also had the unique problem of having extremely undervalued rents in extremely desirable properties until 2019, so there is an ongoing system shock as those prices come up to market rates. Hell I rented on Horsfield for like $600 everything in as recently as 2016. A lot of people got used to being three blocks from downtown for very little cost. It's a shame the north end had its housing stock deteriorate and shrink so much because that would be the logical place for people to move as they get priced out of uptown.

[ColSJ]

Telegraph Square is officially open according to their Instagram page. Anyone have any idea what the vacancy rate is for this building?

[adamuptownsj]

Another small project update:

A triplex at 97 Carlton is under renovation. It was vacant for quite a while. The owners also purchased the tiny duplex next door at 95 and will presumably do something with it.

The vacant 5 unit at 178 Princess has had some painting done and some facade work. It's one crazy long property so this one will likely be a slow burn.

The 8 unit at 101 Pitt looks incredible (imagine saying Pitt and incredible in the same sentence in 2015) and is mostly occupied.

The large ornate SFH at 37 Mecklenburg that's been slowly restored finally has its south facing/front side wrapped in thermal plastic or whatever so maybe they're planning on finishing.

So that's 18 more units and a home, none of which will show up in new housing stats, of course.

Lastly, a residential restoration project you will all be excited about will be announced soon.

[ColSJ]

Thanks for the update as per usual and looking forward to that announcement.

178 Princess has already been renovated on the inside and was just posted to the market the other day. $1450/ a month.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by ColSJ

Thanks for the update as per usual and looking forward to that announcement.

178 Princess has already been renovated on the inside and was just posted to the market the other day. $1450/ a month.

Mama mia I'm undercharging for rent. Lol.

I think the two of the three units facing the street are done. It still looks like a mess out back, where two additional units seem to be.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Another small project update:

A triplex at 97 Carlton is under renovation. It was vacant for quite a while. The owners also purchased the tiny duplex next door at 95 and will presumably do something with it.

The vacant 5 unit at 178 Princess has had some painting done and some facade work. It's one crazy long property so this one will likely be a slow burn.

The 8 unit at 101 Pitt looks incredible (imagine saying Pitt and incredible in the same sentence in 2015) and is mostly occupied.

The large ornate SFH at 37 Mecklenburg that's been slowly restored finally has its south facing/front side wrapped in thermal plastic or whatever so maybe they're planning on finishing.

So that's 18 more units and a home, none of which will show up in new housing stats, of course.

Lastly, a residential restoration project you will all be excited about will be announced soon.

101 Pitt St - this is definitely an 8 unit? There was some debate about that and just wondering if you can confirm from personal first hand knowledge. I know basement dug out for a
Apts

[JakeNB]

I believe 101 Pitt is owner occupied with one rental unit.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

101 Pitt St - this is definitely an 8 unit? There was some debate about that and just wondering if you can confirm from personal first hand knowledge. I know basement dug out for a
Apts

Hmm, now I'm not sure. I know the north half of the building has been finished and occupied for a while but the south half was down to the studs just around Christmas (door was open). So I figured 8- 2 per floor- unless they're proceeding with renos in a very strange order. Could be fewer though, I don't know.

[ColSJ]

As per the 2021 Canada census the central peninsula grew by 8.9% between 2016 and 2021 from 7,552 to 8,221.

It's important to note that no major residential projects were completed in this timeframe meaning this growth is all contributed to developers converting old existing stock into new modern apartments. As the new builds are finally starting to take off so long as we maintain course the 2026 census could show a booming peninsula. The Fundy Quay project alone has the potential to beat our current numbers.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by ColSJ

As per the 2021 Canada census the central peninsula grew by 8.9% between 2016 and 2021 from 7,552 to 8,221.

It's important to note that no major residential projects were completed in this timeframe meaning this growth is all contributed to developers converting old existing stock into new modern apartments. As the new builds are finally starting to take off so long as we maintain course the 2026 census could show a booming peninsula. The Fundy Quay project alone has the potential to beat our current numbers.

In saying this, it's likely Fundy Quay won't fully contribute to any meaningful numbers until the 2031 census.

Good growth for Saint John on the whole, though. Will be interested to see how numbers break down further in the coming months.

[adamuptownsj]

Very interesting. Millidgeville grew enormously. Inner East and much of Lancaster shrunk- good to see substantial growth on Douglas and in the nicer part of the Lower West though.

Surprised to see so much growth in rural Anglo NB- only western Charlotte, the river valley, and rural Miramichi shrunk. Queens and York had pretty great numbers, but WTF is up in New Maryland and Oromocto? Anyone have numbers on English vs French rural population trends? I understand overall it was EXTREMELY static but at the local level there's wholesale relocation of Francophones to the Dieppe-Shediac area and Kent. Doesn't seem to be happening with Anglo areas to the same extent, so I presume there was a net rural French decline and a modest English increase.

Electoral consequences should have Portland-Simonds shrinking (presumably losing territory to Saint John East), Lancaster adding Martinon, which is in a truly weird district with Grand Manan, Harbour staying more or less the same, and East moving more into town. At some point P-S will likely be renamed Saint John North or just Portland or Millidgeville-North End or something. It will be in Simonds less and less. Hell, at this point Millidgeville is basically the second largest River Valley community after Quispamsis and before Rothesay.

Moncton is indeed getting another seat and it's going to functionally be Restigouche-Chaleur or Bathurst East-Nepisiguit-Saint-Isidore. Memramcook-Tantramar will need to go up to Scoudouc to stay rural. Shediac gets a much smaller seat.

Fredericton-Grand Lake is the most likely Fredericton seat to consolidate to the city, presumably adding the remainder to Gagetown-Petitcodiac.

Saint Croix has to add either Harvey or St. George.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Very interesting. Millidgeville grew enormously. Inner East and much of Lancaster shrunk- good to see substantial growth on Douglas and in the nicer part of the Lower West though.

Surprised to see so much growth in rural Anglo NB- only western Charlotte, the river valley, and rural Miramichi shrunk. Queens and York had pretty great numbers, but WTF is up in New Maryland and Oromocto? Anyone have numbers on English vs French rural population trends? I understand overall it was EXTREMELY static but at the local level there's wholesale relocation of Francophones to the Dieppe-Shediac area and Kent. Doesn't seem to be happening with Anglo areas to the same extent, so I presume there was a net rural French decline and a modest English increase.

Electoral consequences should have Portland-Simonds shrinking (presumably losing territory to Saint John East), Lancaster adding Martinon, which is in a truly weird district with Grand Manan, Harbour staying more or less the same, and East moving more into town. At some point P-S will likely be renamed Saint John North or just Portland or Millidgeville-North End or something. It will be in Simonds less and less. Hell, at this point Millidgeville is basically the second largest River Valley community after Quispamsis and before Rothesay.

Moncton is indeed getting another seat and it's going to functionally be Restigouche-Chaleur or Bathurst East-Nepisiguit-Saint-Isidore. Memramcook-Tantramar will need to go up to Scoudouc to stay rural. Shediac gets a much smaller seat.

Fredericton-Grand Lake is the most likely Fredericton seat to consolidate to the city, presumably adding the remainder to Gagetown-Petitcodiac.

Saint Croix has to add either Harvey or St. George.

New Maryland and Oromocto would just be cyclical trends in staffing at CFB Gagetown IMO

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Very interesting. Millidgeville grew enormously. Inner East and much of Lancaster shrunk- good to see substantial growth on Douglas and in the nicer part of the Lower West though.

Doesn't mean much without numbers.

East (Champlain Heights, Glen Falls, Bayside) 12,852 -> 12,965 (+0.9%)
North End/Mount Pleasant 10,584 -> 11,375 (+7.5%)
Millidgeville 8,778 -> 9,304 (+6.0%)
Red Head/Airport 9,101 -> 9,220 (+1.3%)
Uptown Peninsula 7,552 -> 8,221 (+8.9%)
Lorneville-Martinon 7,280 -> 7,298 (+0.2%)
Lancaster/Island View 6,750 -> 6,692 (-0.9%)
Lower West/Fundy Heights 4,678 -> 4,820 (3.0%)

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=9810001302&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.266

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Anyone have numbers on English vs French rural population trends? I understand overall it was EXTREMELY static but at the local level there's wholesale relocation of Francophones to the Dieppe-Shediac area and Kent. Doesn't seem to be happening with Anglo areas to the same extent, so I presume there was a net rural French decline and a modest English increase.

There won't be language numbers for a few months but my reading into the data shows relocation of Francophones into towns and villages at the expense of rural areas. Kent County becomes more English as Moncton sprawls - Moncton effectively becomes more English the larger it becomes, spreading to the outlying communities. Saint John and Fredericton take on larger growth of non-official languages.

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Electoral consequences should have Portland-Simonds shrinking (presumably losing territory to Saint John East), Lancaster adding Martinon, which is in a truly weird district with Grand Manan, Harbour staying more or less the same, and East moving more into town. At some point P-S will likely be renamed Saint John North or just Portland or Millidgeville-North End or something. It will be in Simonds less and less. Hell, at this point Millidgeville is basically the second largest River Valley community after Quispamsis and before Rothesay.

Better for the politics thread but because Saint John grew at the provincial average I doubt very much of the ridings are altered.

[adamuptownsj]

Thanks for the numbers, but there's certainly a lot of fluctuation within the city, so provided the people moving are Canadian citizens of majority age (which could complicate things), Portland-Simonds must shrink, and the easiest way for it to shrink is to give territory to East.

I'd kind of consider it general discussion- until the 90s central Saint John anchored two districts and is certainly on track to have an even smaller and denser district now. It's got to lose like 1,000 people. How many people even live east of City Line anyway?