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  #161  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 4:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suburbanite View Post
I think a lot of people would be surprised at how close the Raptors are to the Leafs in the Toronto sports hierarchy now. Basketball has had a meteoric rise in the last 10 years amongst young people, and first generation immigrants, of which Toronto has both in spades. Hockey still reigns supreme for now I would say, but its position is no longer as untouchable as it once was.
Well, a common theme in SSP Canada is how the NHL and hockey people in general have been killing the goose that laid the golden egg in Canada.

Add to that how badly the Leafs have sucked and none of this is surprising.

It would be interesting to see how the Leafs actually making a serious run for the Stanley Cup (or even winning it) would affect the trend.
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  #162  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 4:25 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Yeah, I agree with that. I think the prominence of MLB has declined because the fan base skews older. But I think it's still number one because of its crossover appeal, especially in markets with older baseball franchises. It also has far more games which gives more people a chance to attend games. In cities with younger teams and a strong football franchise I could see the NFL team being worth more (Miami, for example).

Honestly, if you had a vote about whether to keep the baseball or football team, I think baseball would win easily:
  • New York
  • Detroit
  • Boston
  • Chicago
  • Los Angeles
  • Atlanta
  • Cincinnati
  • Cleveland
  • Houston

I think the football team would win the vote in these cities:
  • Seattle
  • Minneapolis
  • Milwaukee/Green Bay
  • Denver
  • Dallas
  • Washington
  • Pittsburgh
  • KC

These seem like they'd be too close to call:
  • Tampa Bay
  • San Francisco
  • Baltimore
  • Philadelphia
I think Cleveland would be too close to call. And maybe lean football. Definitely not an easy baseball win favoring the Indians over the Browns, even though the Indians have fared FAR better over the past 3+ decades.
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  #163  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 4:35 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Yeah, I agree with that. I think the prominence of MLB has declined because the fan base skews older. But I think it's still number one because of its crossover appeal, especially in markets with older baseball franchises. It also has far more games which gives more people a chance to attend games. In cities with younger teams and a strong football franchise I could see the NFL team being worth more (Miami, for example).

Honestly, if you had a vote about whether to keep the baseball or football team, I think baseball would win easily:
  • New York
  • Detroit
  • Boston
  • Chicago
  • Los Angeles
  • Atlanta
  • Cincinnati
  • Cleveland
  • Houston

I think the football team would win the vote in these cities:
  • Seattle
  • Minneapolis
  • Milwaukee/Green Bay
  • Denver
  • Dallas
  • Washington
  • Pittsburgh
  • KC

These seem like they'd be too close to call:
  • Tampa Bay
  • San Francisco
  • Baltimore
  • Philadelphia
Cleveland is a Browns/Football town by far.
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  #164  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 4:38 PM
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The NFL is King amongst sports in the USA. Of course there are outliers of markets where other sports are in the same ballpark of popularity but the numbers don't lie concering ratings.
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  #165  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 4:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post

Honestly, if you had a vote about whether to keep the baseball or football team, I think baseball would win easily:
  • New York
  • Detroit
  • Boston
  • Chicago
  • Los Angeles
  • Atlanta
  • Cincinnati
  • Cleveland
  • Houston
Chicago is a Bears town first and foremost.

As I've mentioned several times now in this thread, Chicago has a lot of baseball love too, but allegiances are highly split between two old school teams going back generations.

Neither the Cubs nor the Sox come anywhere close to repping ALL of Chicago the way the Bears do. Or the Bulls for that matter.

Chicago IS a big baseball city, but it's an incredibly divided one, more so than the other three 2-team metro areas (NY, LA, SF).
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  #166  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 5:02 PM
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The Vikings are the clear #1 in the Twin Cities. After that it becomes a bit less clear. The Wild have consistent support no matter how they are playing while the Twins don't have a lot of support unless they look like a playoff team. When the Twins are good they are probably the #2 team, when the Twins are bad the Wild are the #2.

After that are a scrum of teams that are hard to rank. Minnesota isn't a college football or college basketball type of place compared to the rest of the Midwest but college hockey is bigger than most places. Gopher football and Gopher hockey are at about the same level and ahead of basketall. The Loons (MLS) are a new team but are growing in support. The Timberwolves may as well not even exist, even basketball fans in the Twin Cities generally don't care about them, they are easily last of all the teams in the area.
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  #167  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 5:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
Chicago is a Bears town first and foremost.

As I've mentioned several times now in this thread, Chicago has a lot of baseball love too, but allegiances are highly split between two old school teams going back generations.

Neither the Cubs nor the Sox come anywhere close to repping ALL of Chicago the way the Bears do. Or the Bulls for that matter.

Chicago IS a big baseball city, but it's an incredibly divided one, more so than the other three 2-team metro areas (NY, LA, SF).
That makes sense. Chicago is a special case in the MLB vs NFL debate because it has one longtime football team and two longtime MLB teams.
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  #168  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 5:03 PM
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Originally Posted by westak View Post
Cleveland is a Browns/Football town by far.
absolutely. its not even close. even just all the local sports media is browns oriented by far.
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  #169  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 5:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
Chicago is a Bears town first and foremost.

As I've mentioned several times now in this thread, Chicago has a lot of baseball love too, but allegiances are highly split between two old school teams going back generations.

Neither the Cubs nor the Sox come anywhere close to repping ALL of Chicago the way the Bears do. Or the Bulls for that matter.
Precisely because Chicago has 2 teams, and has since the dawn of the American League in 1901 (only city always to have a team represented in both leagues since the beginning), neither team can claim a monopoly on the baseball love. I don't live there, although have visited many times, and I know that the Cubs get most of the love, but there's plenty for the Sox too.
With only one football team, the Bears do have the monopoly. But even when Chicago had 2 football teams, I don't know that the Cardinals ever had following that the Bears have had, which I guess is why they left.
But if the question is which *sport* is more popular, as opposed to just which *team* is more popular, there might be a case for baseball winning out in Chicago, if they pool the fans for both teams against the Bears. but what do I know.
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  #170  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 5:59 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
That makes sense. Chicago is a special case in the MLB vs NFL debate because it has one longtime football team and two longtime MLB teams.
And the Blackhawks are an "original 6" NHL team, making Chicago the only city with founding members of the NL, AL, & NFL* and an O6 NHL team, all still playing in their original city



The NBA was much slower to root itself in Chicago because there was so much volatility in the early days of professional basketball, with teams frequently relocating and/or folding soon after formation. Today, only the Celtics and Knicks remain as founding members of the BAA/NBA still in their original city.

Chicago had a BAA Team, the "Stags", at the league's founding in 1946, but they soon folded after 4 short seasons in 1950. After the BAA merged with the NBL and became the NBA in 1949, Chicago got the combined league's first expansion team in 1961, inexplicably named the "Packers" (WTF???????). Realizing their monumental error, they renamed themselves the "Zephyrs" the following season, but the damage was already done. After only two short seasons in Chicago, they moved to Baltimore in 1963 and became the "Bullets" (they've since moved down to DC and are now the "Wizards"). Then in 1966, Chicago got another expansion team, the "Bulls", who were finally able to plant some permanent NBA roots in the windy city.




(*)the Bears franchise technically started in 1920 down in Decatur IL as a company team, but they moved up to Chicago the following year in 1921 and renamed themselves the "Bears" as a nod to the Cubs because the team played at Wrigley Field for the first 5 decades of its existence.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Feb 8, 2022 at 7:06 PM.
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  #171  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 6:27 PM
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Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal View Post
I don't live there, although have visited many times, and I know that the Cubs get most of the love, but there's plenty for the Sox too.
The Cubs are the more popular team locally, but the imbalance isn't as pronounced as outsiders usually assume. That's mostly because the Cubs have a decent national following and were broadcast coast to coast on the old WGN cable superstation for a couple decades, while the sox are almost entirely a local team with an exclusively local following and are frequently ignored by national sports media. The impression is furthered by the fact that Sox fans generally will not show up to Comiskey unless there's a competitive team on the field, whereas cubs fans have a habit of piling into the Northside's largest beer garden regardless of where the cubs are in the standings.

But strictly within the chicagoland market itself. things are fairly well-balanced, with an obvious (though FAR from absolute) north-south divide.


CHICAGOLAND:

county ------ % cubs/% sox

mchenry county: 52%/28%
lake county (IL): 50%/30%
kane county: 50%/36%
kendall county: 46%/39%
dupage county: 44%/40%
cook county: 40%/38%
porter county: 40%/41%
lake county (IN): 39%/43%
kankakee county: 37%/45%
will county: 37%/47%

source: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html


the big one to pay attention to on the chart above is cook county. It has more people than the rest of those counties combined, and it's a pretty dead even split at 40% vs. 38%.

kenosha county is brewers country. once you cross the "cheddar curtain", majority allegiances switch over to wisconsin teams.





Quote:
Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal View Post
But even when Chicago had 2 football teams, I don't know that the Cardinals ever had following that the Bears have had, which I guess is why they left.
They did not, the Cardinals were very much second fiddle to the Bears in Chicago, which was a huge factor in why they left in 1960. In the pre super-bowl era, the bears won 8 NFL championships between 1921 and 1963, and became the darlings of the city's football fans, while the Cardinals only won 2, back to back titles in '47 & '48, before sliding back into mediocrity and then skipping town down to St. Louis (who never truly loved them them either).




Quote:
Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal View Post
But if the question is which *sport* is more popular, as opposed to just which *team* is more popular, there might be a case for baseball winning out in Chicago, if they pool the fans for both teams against the Bears.
That would be an interesting thing to study. My gut tells me the bears would still trump all, but that might just be an artifact of the fact that, of the three, only the bears can unite the whole city.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Feb 8, 2022 at 6:49 PM.
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  #172  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 6:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
Washington DC

1. Nationals (bottom half of MLB teams, but the Nats have a good reputation and no one really dislikes them)
2. Capitals (not a lot of support, but it has a good reputation and supporters are loyal)
3. Wizards (bottom half of NBA teams, but they don't have a bad reputation. They mostly just suck at winning.
4. DC United (usually in the top half of MLS teams, but #4 on the list because MLS isn't really a thing here yet. The somewhat-new Audi Field will hopefully cause it to rise in awareness)
5. Commanders (actively hated by the local population. Dan Snyder is hated, FedEx Field is third-world, the team isn't very good, now they want a new taxpayer-funded stadium in Virginia. Suffice it to say, Commanders are dead-last by a country mile).

Conclusion: Most of our teams are meh, so our sports obsession is meh. NFL team is actively hated.
Complete BS. How long have you lived in the DC area? Certainly the Washington Football Team has had some rough years of late, but historically, the Redskins were BY FAR the most popular team in DC. The fanbase stretches far into Maryland, too, as Baltimore didn't have an NFL team for many years.

The Caps have a great following, but hockey is niche-- especially in (formerly) 'Chocolate City' DC. The Nats also have a nice following, but they didn't even exist until what, 15 years ago? No one cares about the Wizards.

For DC, I'd say its Redskins, Nats, Caps, Wizards. Georgetown basketball also used to be a pretty big deal in DC. Not sure if it still is.
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  #173  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 6:36 PM
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Originally Posted by homebucket View Post
I still think it's the Yankees for New York. They're way more iconic, have wayyyy more history of success, and way more generational talent (Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, DiMaggio, Berra, Jeter, Rivera). The Bronx Bombers.

The Knicks are a vastly overrated franchise. They've only won 2 championships, last in 1973. They've been largely irrelevant for the better part of half a century, save for a decent run of success in the 90s with Ewing under Riley and Van Gundy, but they were overshadowed by the Bulls, and since then they've been absolute trash. They barely have a fraction of the star power that the Yankees had/have. Julius Randle is ya'lls best player. Let that sink in. If the Yankees had a Julius Randle equivalent player as their number one, it would be unacceptable.

It's really no contest.
The Knicks have a crazy loyal following. When I still lived in NY, Knicks fans didn't care if they sucked, they would still spend $$ on clothing and merchandise...and maybe half-assed watch the games. The Knicks, Yankees and Giants are more than just sports teams but an identity. If you have a Giants jersey, you are a New Yorker.
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  #174  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 6:57 PM
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The Knicks will always have crazy support, has nothing to do with whether they're good. Knicks fans are absolutely NOT fair-weather fans (which should be obvious, given their endless suck).

Also, RJ Barrett is the Knicks' best current player. He's had a much better season than Randle, and is much younger with far more upside.
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  #175  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 7:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
The Knicks have a crazy loyal following. When I still lived in NY, Knicks fans didn't care if they sucked, they would still spend $$ on clothing and merchandise...and maybe half-assed watch the games. The Knicks, Yankees and Giants are more than just sports teams but an identity. If you have a Giants jersey, you are a New Yorker.
That was a long time ago. The Knicks have sucked for decades now.
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  #176  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 7:00 PM
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One factor in MLB popularity is the lack of a salary cap, meaning that only big market teams can truly compete. The NFL is on the opposite side of the spectrum, it has the most parity of any league.
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  #177  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 7:09 PM
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Originally Posted by homebucket View Post
That was a long time ago. The Knicks have sucked for decades now.
So you're saying you and others were all fair-weather fans of Golden State during their fallow decades? That's what I'm getting from your posts. Or I really don't get what you're getting at.
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  #178  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 7:11 PM
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Originally Posted by dchan View Post
So you're saying you and others were all fair-weather fans of Golden State during their fallow decades? That's what I'm getting from your posts. Or I really don't get what you're getting at.
I just don't think the Knicks are as popular as you guys think they are. Their attendance and fan support have dropped off over the past few years. You've got lifelong fans basically disowning the Knicks.

Your biggest moment since the 90s was Linsanity, and you haven't produced any notable home grown stars since Ewing.
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  #179  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 7:16 PM
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Originally Posted by homebucket View Post
I just don't think the Knicks are as popular as you guys think they are. Their attendance and fan support have dropped off over the past few years. You've got lifelong fans basically disowning the Knicks.

Your biggest moment since the 90s was Linsanity, and you haven't produced any notable home grown stars since Ewing.
The Knicks are as popular in NYC as the Lakers are in LA. It's crazy but it's true. I can't figure it out either.
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  #180  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2022, 7:23 PM
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Gotta love Knicks fans

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