Will we ever have a modern Green Bay in sports?

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by edale

Up until recently, I always assumed Green Bay was close to Milwaukee, and that was where the majority of game attendees came from. Like the Packers were Milwaukee's team, but the stadium happened to be in Green Bay-- similar situation to the Pats in Boston/Foxboro, Niners in SF/Santa Clara, NY Giants and Jets playing in Jersey, etc. I was very surprised to learn it was a solid 2 hours away, and its own little metro area.

The Giants/Jets play 7 miles from Midtown Manhattan. The stadium is in the region's core.

And the Pats and Niners have more fringe stadia, but still in the same sports markets.

I think, long-term, Green Bay's location is questionable. You can retain the same rabid fanbase, without playing in a small town in the middle of nowhere. An extended losing cycle, and I bet there would be relocation talk. Rodgers goes to Denver or retires and I could see whispers with a decade.

The Raiders have the same weird fanbase despite going from Oakland to LA, back to Oakland, now to Vegas. You could still have the cheesehead brigade in Milwaukee, or in Orlando (shudder), for that matter.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

wrigley is a chewing gum brand

Indeed! Fun fact, before the Wrigley Building was built, Wrigley was HQ'd in the building I live in now. It is claimed that perhaps the first "wireless" call ever was made from my building (from Wrigley's HQ to Santa Catalina Island, owned by the Wrigley at the time, via apparentlly the the first radio-telephone connection between Long Beach and Avalon. It was completely insecure and could easily be listened to by anyone with radio equpiment so it didn't last very long).

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Crawford

A couple of years of losing, and I bet there would be relocation talk.

trust me, as a long suffering bears fan, no one wants to see the packers enter into a long, deep, painful decline once rodgers departs more than me.

but i guess you will be surprised when they continue to sell out every home game at lambeau and have every set of TV eyeballs in the state on sunday afternoons, regardless of their record.





the pack ain't ever leaving Green Bay.

[edale]

Originally Posted by Crawford

The Giants/Jets play 7 miles from Midtown Manhattan. The stadium is in the region's core.

And the Pats and Niners have more fringe stadia, but still in the same sports markets.

I think, long-term, Green Bay's location is questionable. You can retain the same rabid fanbase, without playing in a small town in the middle of nowhere. An extended losing cycle, and I bet there would be relocation talk. Rodgers goes to Denver or retires and I could see whispers with a decade.

The Raiders have the same weird fanbase despite going from Oakland to LA, back to Oakland, now to Vegas. You could still have the cheesehead brigade in Milwaukee, or in Orlando (shudder), for that matter.

I know. I'm saying I thought Green Bay was in Metro Milwaukee. If they do relocate, I don't see why they wouldn't just head down to Milwaukee. They'd still be Wisconsin's team, but they'd operate out of a much more sensible location.

[SAN Man]

I don't see the Pack ever leaving Green Bay to be honest. They have a large dedicated fanbase that puts pressure on management to build a competitive team.

[edale]

Originally Posted by SAN Man

This sounds very similar to how it went down in San Diego. The owner had no intentions of staying in SD, but he went through all the hoops to make it appear he did everything he could with the city and voters and was forced out.

Why did St. Louis win $790 million? If they were misled and spent millions then they should be compensated for that with interest, but they didn't spend $790 million. I'm asking because I think a lawsuit was filed against the Chargers this week.

I really wish the Chargers stayed in San Diego. SD is big enough for more than one professional team, and I liked having it as one of the classic AFC West cities. I'm glad the NFL is back in LA, and the Rams make sense based on their history here. But getting the Chargers simultaneously split the fan base (for those who care, or aren't Raider fans), which led to somewhat lackluster support or enthusiasm for both teams.

[SAN Man]

Originally Posted by edale

I really wish the Chargers stayed in San Diego. SD is big enough for more than one professional team, and I liked having it as one of the classic AFC West cities. I'm glad the NFL is back in LA, and the Rams make sense based on their history here. But getting the Chargers simultaneously split the fan base (for those who care, or aren't Raider fans), which led to somewhat lackluster support or enthusiasm for both teams.

Yes, I agree. The absence of football in Los Angeles went on for too long. The Rams were the perfect franchise to bring football back to LA.

I think the Rams have a much better fanbase in LA than the Chargers though, right?

[Steely Dan]

i know it came down to the regular old stadium hemming and hawing, but i too wish the chargers had stayed down in SD, leaving LA to the rams.

to go from 0 to 2 all at once was kinda WTF-ish.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Of course I know what a Slush Puppie is! I grew up on that cold deliciousness.

My high school even had Vita Pup machines in the cafeteria.

They were clearly way ahead of their time (when were you in HS?).
could've been Vitamin Water big

and of all the annoying corporate names at least Centre Slush Puppie sounds fun

[edale]

Originally Posted by SAN Man

I think the Rams have a much better fanbase in LA than the Chargers though, right?

Yes, I think so. While SoFi was getting built, they played at the Coliseum, while the Chargers played in a 30,000 seat stadium in Carson. They've also been to one Super Bowl, and they're playing for another this year, while Chargers have been mediocre. I think the LA fanbase is still probably 1) Raiders 2) Rams 3) Chargers

[SAN Man]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i know it came down to the regular old stadium hemming and hawing, but i too wish the chargers had stayed down in SD, leaving LA to the rams.

to go from 0 to 2 all at once was kinda WTF-ish.

"The Q" hosted the Super Bowl in 2003. It needed a full renovation or rebuild next to it in the parking lot, but it wasn't a terrible place to play football. It qualified for a Super Bowl 13-14 years before the Chargers vacated it.

I'll take a picture of the site this weekend and share with you all, SDSU has taken control of the area and their new stadium is going up fast!

[SAN Man]

Originally Posted by edale

I think the LA fanbase is still probably 1) Raiders 2) Rams 3) Chargers

If the Rams win, the LA fanbase will probably move up to 1) Rams, no question.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by edale

I really wish the Chargers stayed in San Diego. SD is big enough for more than one professional team, and I liked having it as one of the classic AFC West cities. I'm glad the NFL is back in LA, and the Rams make sense based on their history here. But getting the Chargers simultaneously split the fan base (for those who care, or aren't Raider fans), which led to somewhat lackluster support or enthusiasm for both teams.

Not a big basketball fan, but you just reminded me that the Los Angeles Clippers were once the San Diego Clippers.

Does anyone ever think about that?

[Buckeye Native 001]

The Rams weren't even technically in Los Angeles prior to moving to St. Louis. They played in Anaheim from 1980 to 1994. Allegedly they had trouble selling out the Coliseum and were subject to the NFL's TV blackout rules before relocating to Anaheim.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Crawford

An extended losing cycle, and I bet there would be relocation talk. Rodgers goes to Denver or retires and I could see whispers with a decade.

That's one of the things about the Packers though, they've been remarkably and consistently good for the past THREE decades... meaning an extended losing cycle isn't all that likely.

The only NFL teams with winning percentages over 60% the past 30 seasons (and it drops significantly off to 57% after the Steelers):

1. New England Patriots 65%
2. Green Bay Packers 64%
3. Pittsburgh Steelers 63%

These franchises are often held up as the models of consistency and excellence in the NFL. Hmmm... what's the winning formula? Get a good coach and a good QB and keep them.

Originally Posted by edale

I know. I'm saying I thought Green Bay was in Metro Milwaukee. If they do relocate, I don't see why they wouldn't just head down to Milwaukee. They'd still be Wisconsin's team, but they'd operate out of a much more sensible location.

I really think that is part of the allure of the Packers though. I'm just guessing, but I'd bet that Wisconsinite fandom LOVES the fact that the Packers play in ancient Lambeau Field in frigid, out-of-the-way Green Bay.

Originally Posted by edale

I really wish the Chargers stayed in San Diego. SD is big enough for more than one professional team, and I liked having it as one of the classic AFC West cities. I'm glad the NFL is back in LA, and the Rams make sense based on their history here. But getting the Chargers simultaneously split the fan base (for those who care, or aren't Raider fans), which led to somewhat lackluster support or enthusiasm for both teams.

Me too. For whatever reason, I've always liked the Chargers. I think it's because I liked the lightning bolt as a kid and their navy & gold colors... think I had a jacket too. I'd be pissed if I was a San Diegan.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Wigs

They were clearly way ahead of their time (when were you in HS?).
could've been Vitamin Water big

and of all the annoying corporate names at least Centre Slush Puppie sounds fun

Reppin' the Vita Pup 1990s style

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Not a big basketball fan, but you just reminded me that the Los Angeles Clippers were once the San Diego Clippers.

Does anyone ever think about that?

And they started out as the Buffalo Braves.

Some great players on those teams... Bob McAdoo, Moses Malone, Randy White, Adrian Dantley... but they had bad ownership and were never too good... which continued to SoCal for a very long time

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by pj3000

I really think that is part of the allure of the Packers though. I'm just guessing, but I'd bet that Wisconsinite fandom LOVES the fact that the Packers play in ancient Lambeau Field in frigid, out-of-the-way Green Bay.

absolutely.

and the fact that they're "community owned" plays a HUGE part in their allure to joe six-pack cheesehead as well.

this is where mcbane chimes in to yell at us about how that's all just a stupid bullshit myth, but that point is actually irrelevant.

if an entire populace buys into the myth (and they do!), then it no longer matters if it's true or not, that myth now has actual real-world power.

there would be no reason for the packers to change anything about how they've been doing things for the past century now. whatever they're doing, it fucking works!

it would make zero sense for everyone involved to go fix something that clearly isn't broken, from the shareholders to the management to the players to the fans.

[thoughtcriminal]

the Chargers of course started in LA, then moved to San Diego, now back to LA. I have a low grade hunch that they may yet move back to San Diego. that's why they're only tenants of the Rams in the stadium and not co-owners, similar to the NY Giants and Jets arrangement. The Chargers have a 20 year lease, with two optional 10-year terms after that - an option exclusively for the Chargers to exercise or not. they pay only $1 per year in actual rent, but a lot of other revenue streams go to pay the rest of it. there's a whole breakdown of the lease here: https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/s...bout-stan-kroenkes-chargers-predicament/
For all the money Kroenke is getting from the Chargers out of this deal, why oh why can't he spend more on quality players for my beloved Arsenal, which Kroenke also owns? but I digress.
because so much is going into Kroenke's pocket from the Chargers, it wouldn't surprise me if they started looking back to the place where they made their name in San Diego and thinking about getting their own place.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by SAN Man

Yes, I agree. The absence of football in Los Angeles went on for too long. The Rams were the perfect franchise to bring football back to LA.

I think the Rams have a much better fanbase in LA than the Chargers though, right?

Absolutely, since there was a decent and long history here so there are left over fans from the original tenure (such as myself when o was a kid) and they are easy to like since they have star power and win. In due time (one generation and a couple super bowl wins) they will move to a solid third in LA sports hierarchy in the top tier along with the Lakers and Dodgers and above USC football, UCLA basketball