Protests and their effects on Ottawa

[AuxTown]

Originally Posted by thewave46

An honest question: What do you want the police to do?

Preempt? Barricade the city? Ban all protests?

Had the police started arresting people as they rolled into the city (On what charges?) it would have likely turned ugly as social media would have caused the protestors to regroup in a chaotic way. They might have turned their ire on somewhere not expecting it. At least Ottawa knew what was coming; had the mob descended on somewhere else (Montreal, Toronto, Kingston) not prepared, it might be uglier.

I don’t approve of the mob, but heavy handed tactics are generally their own reward. By letting the mob freeze and thin out, the police can clear the more extreme elements with less risk of a riot.

Great question. How about the police didn't allow this protest essentially holding us hostage by blocking our entire downtown with their vehicles for days on end? I've seen dozens of large protests downtown over the years (women's march, G20, BLM, etc.) but I've never seen one this disruptive for such a long time. And what does the protest really gain other than the hatred of the locals?

Unpopular opinion here but I would say that, in my experience, police have been one of the professions with the highest anti-vax and anti-lockdown sentiment. I have to think that is playing into this situation as the cops are going around high-fiving the protesters and completely ignoring the illegally (and in some cases dangerously) parked vehicles. This bias needs to be discussed.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

Unpopular opinion here but I would say that, in my experience, police have been one of the professions with the highest anti-vax and anti-lockdown sentiment. I have to think that is playing into this situation as the cops are going around high-fiving the protesters and completely ignoring the illegally (and in some cases dangerously) parked vehicles. This bias needs to be discussed.

Some cops have engaged in objectionable conduct with the protestors for sure, but there is no way they are making individual decisions on the street about how to handle this.

People may disagree with it and it may even be ineffective, but they've been given marching orders by their superiors based on a plan, and by and large they follow it.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

I don't think this point of view is terrible well thought-out.

1) During future protests of this nature, trucks just park on adjacent streets and the pedestrian protest still occurs on Wellington Street, blocking the tramway. Voila, no more inter-provincial trams for the duration of the protest.
2) Somebody parks a truck on the tramway tracks at either end of Wellington Street, outside the bollards. No more inter-provincial trams for the duration of the protest.

At least STO buses can be routed to other streets.

Maybe it would actually make cops do their job and route traffic away from Wellington.

BTW, notice that trucks didn't park on Sparks Street. Even though it's perfectly driveable.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

Great question. How about the police didn't allow this protest essentially holding us hostage by blocking our entire downtown with their vehicles for days on end? I've seen dozens of large protests downtown over the years (women's march, G20, BLM, etc.) but I've never seen one this disruptive for such a long time. And what does the protest really gain other than the hatred of the locals?

I feel this but I think the cops and authorities were caught in a bit of a catch-22 when all of this started.

People are allowed to protest and heavy trucks actually are allowed to drive down Wellington St. I am pretty sure.

I think a lot of us knew that there was a good chance this could happen, but it's still extremely difficult to restrict certain rights based solely on anticipated behaviour.

[khabibulin]

So at least the RCMP in Alberta are trying to bring an end to the truck blockade there. I know that the circumstances are different, but at least an effort is being made to come to the aid of an important border crossing and the citizens of an isolated town.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...e-a8e7909457d0

"Some vehicles forming an illegal blockade at the Coutts port of entry have left the protest after RCMP moved Tuesday afternoon to begin enforcement action against participants.


But Mounties reported some protesters also breached a police barrier to join the blockade, with two of those protesters seen in tractors sporting Canadian flags, racing down a ditch along the highway to join the demonstration.


“We (began) to remove some vehicles from the protest area. A few left. I didn’t get an exact count of how many went out. And then we received notification that additional protesters were arriving on the scene and came around our secured area,” RCMP Cpl. Curtis Peters told The Canadian Press.

Peters said he didn’t know how many additional vehicles entered the blockade, or what would come next.

The blockade continues to stymie traffic through the busy U.S. border crossing in a protest of COVID-19 health measures that has entered its fourth day."

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by acottawa

The protesters have charter rights, the police can’t just remove them. Ironically the Liberals opposed Tory proposal that would make blocking key economic infrastructure illegal. The existing criminal code requires “disturb the peace tumultuously” to invoke the riot act, which would be a hard case to make for a jackass laying on the horn. Businesses or residents could try to get a court order. Police could also start issuing parking tickets.

Yes and equally ironically many of the rural base at the heart of this protest were behind the similar law in Alberta that RCMP used to clear the border.

As usual hypocrisy on both sides. The standard can't be do you agree with the message of the protest. I would argue the protesters in this case have been very well behaved. No smashed windows or damaged businesses. The honking is extremely annoying but frankly not much worse than construction noise (granted 700 Sussex must be on another level). The traffic disruption seems to be mostly from the over-reaction by police rather than protesters. BLM in Montreal was certainly more riotous than this. Aboriginal groups intentionally and effectively disrupt life regularly though usually in a targeted manner.

On the other hand I appreciate Trudeau's reaction, basically I won't meet them and don't agree and won't agree to any of their demands. We don't need to give into people because they cause disruption even if at the same time no successful protest can occur without some disruption.

[Acajack]

Rideau Centre closes until Feb. 6.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

Remember in 2020 when Nicholas and Laurier was blocked - did the Ottawa Police Service let them stay - NO, on day 2 they moved in and arrested 12 of them... how many arrests for the shitshow that continues downtown?

If we magically replaced truckers with blacks, indigenous or muslims - situation would have been cleared by now - and not nicely.

Yesterday we saw the mayor, Diane Deans and the police chief self-congratulate themselves, pats on the back all around, high fives and the message to residents was stop tweeting, emailing, calling and sit tight.

This is a complete failure of leadership.

And I can't get an answer - but was there a protest permit issued? If not, why all the accomodations?

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

That was totally worse than shutting down the Chaudière, Portage and Alexandra bridges, their approaches, the SJAM Parkway, and like half of the Central Business District.

But have the protesters purposely blocked any routes? As far as I see it's the police who have rightly or wrongly blocked traffic. On Saturday morning they were preemptively blocking Rideau and only letting protesters through. Dalhousie exit off MC bridge is intermittently closed. Haven't seen any trucks anywhere near it. For example on Monday it was re-opened and I used it without any impediments and today it was blocked adding to what looked like an hour long wait to enter Ottawa (I was going against the traffic flow). Maybe it's a control thing to see who is entering?

Yes the number of trucks and at some point even the number of people caused congestion and traffic but some of this is incidental. It is very different than 2 people blocking a street which can easily be removed.

[ponyboycurtis]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Rideau Centre closes until Feb. 6.

Anyone want to take a guess at how many people work at the RC? from clerks to cleaning staff to security?

That's a lot of people to miss an entire weeks pay over this.

[AuxTown]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

Anyone want to take a guess at how many people work at the RC? from clerks to cleaning staff to security?

That's a lot of people to miss an entire weeks pay over this.

I heard over 1000, probably closer to 1500 direct and indirect employment.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by ortelius

I live in the market. The non-stop super loud sound of horns felt like mental torture. Apparently it's a tactic used by torturers.

It is absolutely 100% torture, and it's also used in certain... uprising-y ... situations.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Not sure that will come soon enough for what's going on in Ottawa.

Softening of measures is a matter of weeks, whereas this Ottawa situation needs a resolution measured in days, if not hours.

Hours.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Rideau Centre closes until Feb. 6.

Seems pretty drastic. Didn't all that happen on Saturday was a bunch of people went in there without masks? (Correct me if I'm wrong).

That's a lot of people to leave unemployed just because you're scared of people being maskless.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Seems pretty drastic. Didn't all that happen on Saturday was a bunch of people went in there without masks? (Correct me if I'm wrong).

That's a lot of people to leave unemployed just because you're scared of people being maskless.

Employees have a right to feel safe in their place of work. You don't get to decide what conditions they should feel safe under based on your political views.

And given the behaviour on the weekend, inside and outside the mall, it's not just masks, that the operators have to worry about.

[passwordisnt123]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Nimby

Are you serious? In the spring of 2020 BLM/Antifa torched and looted US cities with impunity. Remember the “Idle No More” protests where they set bonfires on railroad tracks? Probably not. Give your head a shake.

It's sad that you fell for that video that went viral in right wing circles during Idle No More. The video tried to suggest that Indigenous people were derailing trains. In fact, Indigenous people didn't derail trains during Idle No More. The video simply showed standard techniques used by railroads across North America used to keep switches from freezing in winter.

[passwordisnt123]

Originally Posted by thewave46

Banana republic regimes tend to shoot dissenters or have the military crush rebellions.

Western democracies also shoot dissenters and have the military crush rebellions. Unless we're claiming Canada and the US aren't western democracies.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Employees have a right to feel safe in their place of work. You don't get to decide what conditions they should feel safe under based on your political views.

And given the behaviour on the weekend, inside and outside the mall, it's not just masks, that the operators have to worry about.

There is also the very real possibility of a police intervention to remove the protestors and their vehicles by force, something one wouldn't want Rideau Centre shoppers and staff to get caught up in.

(I doubt the police would warn the Rideau Centre before something like that goes down, much less that there'd be time get everyone out of there beforehand.)

[SidetrackedSue]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It has nothing to do with the fact that Nicholas St. is the main access route to the 417 to and from downtown Ottawa, I am sure.

Since yesterday I've been trying hard to cover up Peter Sloly and Jim Watson's blatant white supremacism and allyship with the truckers, but it's getting harder and harder - leaks are springing up everywhere!

King Edward is the trucking route between Ottawa and Gatineau. It too is a significant road in Ottawa.

That is where the City has agreed the trucks should park, bringing it down to one lane SB according to the City's Traffic Map. The exit off the MC onto Sussex/GECparkway was also closed off this morning as it was yesterday when the traffic backed up 18km on highway 50.

This morning the Macdonald Cartier bridge was a shitshow when I heard the traffic report at 6 a.m.

Also this morning around 7:30, someone pushed aside the pilons, opening up that exit off the bridge and backup disappeared.

Like you, I'm having a hard time thinking the city isn't supporting the protestors over the interests of the working truckers.

Now the police are tweeting

We want to be very clear, both for the current demonstrations and any planned demonstrations: Illegal activity will not be tolerated

I'm beyond furious about this.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by SidetrackedSue

King Edward is the trucking route between Ottawa and Gatineau. It too is a significant road in Ottawa.

That is where the City has agreed the trucks should park, bringing it down to one lane SB according to the City's Traffic Map. The exit off the MC onto Sussex/GECparkway was also closed off this morning as it was yesterday when the traffic backed up 18km on highway 50.

This morning the Macdonald Cartier bridge was a shitshow when I heard the traffic report at 6 a.m.

Also this morning around 7:30, someone pushed aside the pilons, opening up that exit off the bridge and backup disappeared.

Like you, I'm having a hard time thinking the city isn't supporting the protestors over the interests of the working truckers.

Now the police are tweeting



I'm beyond furious about this.

These are sensible views, but not sure they are the same as mine.

I don't think the city and police are siding with the protestors at all.

I think they are scrambling right now.

[lrt's friend]

Just think of the truckers trying to block the movement of goods (and fellow truckers) at the border in Coutts, Alberta. I am not sure how this garners support for their cause.