Will we ever have a modern Green Bay in sports?

[JManc]

Bills' fandon goes well into the rest of Upstate NY beyond Rochester as well. For a diehard fan/ season ticket holder, a few hours drive is not a big deal.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by JManc

Bills' fandon goes well into the rest of Upstate NY beyond Rochester as well. For a diehard fan/ season ticket holder, a few hours drive is not a big deal.

but again, it's not really about filling a giant stadium 8 sundays a year.

the NFL cares about TV eyeballs WAY more than it cares about butts in seats.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JManc

Bills' fandon goes well into the rest of Upstate NY beyond Rochester as well. For a diehard fan/ season ticket holder, a few hours drive is not a big deal.

But not quite as far as Syracuse as far as I've always noticed.

I mean, there are Bills fans there for sure but I've always found that it is more oriented towards NYC teams. Probably the Giants in football.

Rochester is quite oriented towards Buffalo clubs, and their AHL club the Americans (Amerks) are affiliated with the NHL Buffalo Sabres I believe.

Or at least were affiliated with them forever.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Recent estimates for Winnipeg put the city population close to 770k, and the Metro over 850k. The past decade had fairly high growth.

It's also a provincial capital and has many Provincial and Federal government jobs (Royal Canadian Mint, National Microbiology Lab) with 2 universities and many colleges so it "punches will above its weight" compared to an equivalent sized US Metro.
http://citypopulation.de/en/canada/agglo/manitoba/602__winnipeg/

.

This is a good assessment of Winnipeg as a city, though I'd argue that in terms of market they have a modest version of Packer-dom going on and that the entire province of Manitoba is their home market.

That would be close to 1.4 million people and then they might have some scraps in far NW Ontario and a bit of Saskatchewan as well, to bring it up to 1.5 million.

In that sense it's not that much different from the Ottawa Senators' market which is extremely limited to the Ottawa metro area and its most immediate environs, sandwiched in geographically as it is between the markets of two powerhouse legacy teams: the Habs and Leafs.

[10023]

Only if a pretty unpopular, semi-professional sport gets big over time and there’s a legacy franchise in some small city.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Quebec deserves to get the Nordiques back. It's growing and is a huge fan base for NHL. Between Montreal and Quebec City there's more than enough of a potential fanbase.

Quebec City has more people than Winnipeg within a 100 km radius, 200 km, 300 km... basically any radius you want.

Also, if we look back at how things were when the Nordiques were there, the Habs didn't squeeze or confine the Nordiques into their local Quebec City market.

Both teams kinda shared the province of Quebec as a market, with either team very dominant in their city and the surrounding areas, but with a good dose of fans for either team scattered all across the province.

There were lots of Nordiques in far western Quebec for example, which is some distance from Quebec City and a lot closer to Montreal.

Back then, it was said that between a quarter to a third of hockey fans in the province favoured the Nordiques.

If that were repeated today, it would give the Nordiques a market of about 2.5 million people.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Wigs

With Buffalo, people forget there's not only almost 500k Canadians in Niagara within a 35 minute drive to the border crossing, but Rochester, NY just 65-70 miles down the I-90 is a Metro of over 1 Million people as well.

For sports, Buffalo essentially has a potential market of 2.5M+ people to pull from.

In terms of NFL media markets, Buffalo Bills territory extends into SW NY (Chautauqua County) and into the Erie TV market in NW PA. This adds another 500k+ population.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Acajack

But not quite as far as Syracuse as far as I've always noticed.

I mean, there are Bills fans there for sure but I've always found that it is more oriented towards NYC teams. Probably the Giants in football.

I've always thought Syracuse seemed pretty split 50/50 between Giants and Bills.

[edale]

Originally Posted by pj3000

In terms of NFL media markets, Buffalo Bills territory extends into SW NY (Chautauqua County) and into the Erie TV market in NW PA. This adds another 500k+ population.

I was actually wondering what NFL media market Erie fell into. I assumed it would be Steelers country, but I guess Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Buffalo are all about equally similar distances from Erie.

There are a number of instances where the NFL media market greatly exceeds a metro's official media market. Cleveland appears to be a substantially larger media market than Cincinnati because Akron and Canton don't have their own TV stations while Dayton does. By geographic reach, the Cincy media market basically equals its metro area, while Cleveland's takes up all of NE Ohio. But when it comes to football, the Bengals media market includes Dayton, but also Louisville, Lexington, and sometimes Columbus, which at least doubles the size of its media market for games.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by pj3000

I've always thought Syracuse seemed pretty split 50/50 between Giants and Bills.

Could be.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

But not quite as far as Syracuse as far as I've always noticed.

I mean, there are Bills fans there for sure but I've always found that it is more oriented towards NYC teams. Probably the Giants in football.

Rochester is quite oriented towards Buffalo clubs, and their AHL club the Americans (Amerks) are affiliated with the NHL Buffalo Sabres I believe.

Or at least were affiliated with them forever.

It's a mixed bag actually. Bills still have a huge following in Syracuse and Utica but Giants are just as popular. More so as you head east. I am a NY Rangers' fan, Yankees fan but a Bills fan. Canadiens are popular way up north as MTL is closer than NYC or Boston. Sabers are all but non existent. Red Sox very popular in the Albany area as are the Patriots.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by edale

I was actually wondering what NFL media market Erie fell into. I assumed it would be Steelers country, but I guess Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Buffalo are all about equally similar distances from Erie.

There are a number of instances where the NFL media market greatly exceeds a metro's official media market. Cleveland appears to be a substantially larger media market than Cincinnati because Akron and Canton don't have their own TV stations while Dayton does. By geographic reach, the Cincy media market basically equals its metro area, while Cleveland's takes up all of NE Ohio. But when it comes to football, the Bengals media market includes Dayton, but also Louisville, Lexington, and sometimes Columbus, which at least doubles the size of its media market for games.

Technically, Erie is in the Bills' market. Though the fanbase there is pretty split Bills-Browns-Steelers, in no particular order. Bills games take precedence over all other AFC game broadcasts, much to the long-time chagrin of Browns and Steelers fans there

Back in the day, it was solidly Browns, then the Bills came into existence and then the Steelers finally became a good team in the 70s, and you got a split fanbase... with an oddly sizeable Giants fanbase as well (likely just due to the proximity to NY state and thus the Giants being the common NFC broadcast across NYS and the northern tier of PA?). Regardless, it's a pretty even mix of those 3 blue collar, obsessed fanbases.

Originally Posted by JManc

It's a mixed bag actually. Bills still have a huge following in Syracuse and Utica but Giants are just as popular. More so as you head east. I am a NY Rangers' fan, Yankees fan but a Bills fan.

Yeah, this is what I've always experienced while in upstate NY.

Bills/Giants, Yankees, Rangers/Sabers (near Buffalo, Rochester), Knicks (kind of)... don't really experience much Jets, Mets, and definitely not Islanders or Nets.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by edale

There are a number of instances where the NFL media market greatly exceeds a metro's official media market. Cleveland appears to be a substantially larger media market than Cincinnati because Akron and Canton don't have their own TV stations while Dayton does. By geographic reach, the Cincy media market basically equals its metro area, while Cleveland's takes up all of NE Ohio. But when it comes to football, the Bengals media market includes Dayton, but also Louisville, Lexington, and sometimes Columbus, which at least doubles the size of its media market for games.

Never realized that Akron and Canton don't have their own TV stations.

Found this map awhile ago... not really sure of its accuracy:

[JManc]

Amazing. Utica and NYC have only one county (Delaware) between them.

[iheartthed]

^It's fascinating how fragmented the Nielsen map is in the east versus the west.

[edale]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

^It's fascinating how fragmented the Nielsen map is in the east versus the west.

Yeah, that map shows Ohio is covered by 11 media markets, while a state like Utah only has 1!

[Buckeye Native 001]

I'm surprised Arizona has four? Apparently Albuquerque creeps into Apache County where the closest large city is probably Gallup?

[SIGSEGV]

Kind of strange how Champaign and Springfield are combined. Also Presque Isle must be the smallest market, no?

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Also Presque Isle must be the smallest market, no?

According to this source, these are the 10 smallest media markets in terms of # of "TV households".

201 St. Joseph - 44,460
202 Fairbanks - 36,070
203 Victoria - 32,930
204 Zanesville - 32,450
205 Helena - 28,110
206 Presque Isle - 26,880
207 Juneau - 25,680
208 Alpena - 16,010
209 North Platte - 14,370
210 Glendive - 4,370

Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lyonspr.com/latest-nielsen-dma-rankings/



On topic, the Green Bay-Appleton Nielson media market is #68 in the nation with 438,070 TV households.

So when Green Bay is combined with the Fox river cities upstream, it's actually not as relatively small as it's MSA ranking would indicate (#158).

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

According to this source, these are the 10 smallest media markets in terms of # of "TV households".

201 St. Joseph - 44,460
202 Fairbanks - 36,070
203 Victoria - 32,930
204 Zanesville - 32,450
205 Helena - 28,110
206 Presque Isle - 26,880
207 Juneau - 25,680
208 Alpena - 16,010
209 North Platte - 14,370
210 Glendive - 4,370

Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lyonspr.com/latest-nielsen-dma-rankings/



On topic, the Green Bay-Appleton Nielson media market is #68 in the nation with 438,070 TV households.

So when Green Bay is combined with the Fox river cities upstream, it's actually not as relatively small as it's MSA ranking would indicate (#158).

How is Tampa St Pete so high? Retirees watch a shitload of tv?