CHICAGO | General Discussions

[west-town-brad]

a data source in support of the wealth in Chicago discussion... you can look at IRS data by zip code to see what people are making annually. the 60614 zip code that covers Lincoln Park and some other adjacent areas regularly has over 1,000 households reporting $1 Million or more in annual income

in NYC there would be way more zip codes like that given the economics of the city and overall cost of living, plus NYC is a magnet for much more international cash that Chicago which helps support those crazy pricey condo buildings

[chicubs111]

Originally Posted by rivernorthlurker

IMO I think Chicago's real contemporary in the US is now Miami - whose boom is almost entirely residential. Miami's new residential towers are without a doubt more architecturally innovative than Chicago. I'm not sure what the 'difference' is since Miami's price point is pretty similar to Chicago's. I do think it sometimes just comes down to ambition/attitude/culture. Or maybe it's just the aldermen.

Absolutely agree about the "ambition/attitude/culture" ... and also your correct if the alderman\mayor created this type of standard\ambition it would spark a bit more innovation than we have been getting for sure.

[Steely Dan]

It's good to see that Jan Brady Syndrome is still going strong in the second city.





Some things will never change.....

[chicubs111]

^ your the one coming off as insecure...anytime someone states a slightly critical opinion about Chicago you get all in a hissy fit, so what some people have higher expectations of archecture ... nobody is knocking Chicago just having discussions of what could be improved. The fact we see some aspects of design\development that we like is expressed in NYC is considered some anti-Chicago rhetoric?.. come on now

[Steely Dan]

posting a silly meme to poke fun at all of the NYC-obsessed, second city sydrome people in chicago is now considered a hissy fit?



i don't have an issue with criticism of chicago.

love it, hate it, ignore it........... i do not care.

it's the constant obsession with NYC that i'm talking about.

it never ends with a certain subset of chicagons.

it's in the city's DNA and it's so fucking annoying.



CHICAGO: The capital city of Jan Brady Syndrome from the dawn of time 'til the end of time.



(holy shit! i think i just criticized Chicago. but how could that be?????)

[k1052]

Good to see that we've got another round of "Why doesn't Chicago build uneconomical tall things all over the place because we feel inadequate to NYC? ". Always a productive discussion.

[chicubs111]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

posting a silly meme to poke fun at all of the NYC-obsessed second city sydrome people in chicago is now considered a hissy fit?



i don't have an issue with criticism of chicago.

love it, hate it, ignore it........... i do not care.

it's the constant obsession with NYC that i'm talking about.

it never ends with a certain subset of chicagons.

it's in the city's DNA and it's so fucking annoying.



CHICAGO: The capital city of Jan Brady Syndrome from the dawn of time 'til the end of time.



(holy shit! i think i just criticized Chicago. but how could that be?????)

There is also a subset of Chicagoans that get overly defensive when Chicago is somehow compared to NY in the smallest fraction...

[chicubs111]

Originally Posted by k1052

Good to see that we've got another round of "Why doesn't Chicago build uneconomical tall things all over the place because we feel inadequate to NYC? ". Always a productive discussion.

oh of course because every building that is built in this city is exactly built to its maximum economic profitability and anything otherwise will be obviously fail and not make a profit...how dare some people on skscraperpage page forum want somewhat taller buildings with quality design...forgive us

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by chicubs111

in the smallest fraction...

"smallest"?

really?

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by west-town-brad

a data source in support of the wealth in Chicago discussion... you can look at IRS data by zip code to see what people are making annually. the 60614 zip code that covers Lincoln Park and some other adjacent areas regularly has over 1,000 households reporting $1 Million or more in annual income

in NYC there would be way more zip codes like that given the economics of the city and overall cost of living, plus NYC is a magnet for much more international cash that Chicago which helps support those crazy pricey condo buildings

Comparing to other cities at the end of the day is pointless. People either have the money or they don't. It doesn't matter what other cities have.

Where do you see $1M+ in the IRS data? I only see $200K+

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by west-town-brad

a data source in support of the wealth in Chicago discussion... you can look at IRS data by zip code to see what people are making annually. the 60614 zip code that covers Lincoln Park and some other adjacent areas regularly has over 1,000 households reporting $1 Million or more in annual income

in NYC there would be way more zip codes like that given the economics of the city and overall cost of living, plus NYC is a magnet for much more international cash that Chicago which helps support those crazy pricey condo buildings

Exactly.

Problem is, this has always been the case--yet Chicago was still keeping up with NYC in building bold skyscrapers up until 10-ish years ago.

Chicago has lost its height mojo, but I think it is made up for by the fact that SO MUCH infill is happening, particularly with underutilized sites in and around downtown. Many may not like to hear this, but we need to fill in the gaps before we can really start building upward to a substantial degree.

Manhattan just has no land. It has to go up. Chicago is in a different position in so many ways.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Chicago has lost its height mojo

that is a false perception.

over the past handful of years Chicago has built 7 new towers over 800' tall, with more on the way.

that is the largest building boom of such towers in the city's entire history!

the fact that NYC has gone completely insane with new supertalls at the same time does not negate the fact that Chicago is currently experiencing one of the biggest skyscraper building booms its ever had.

[Handro]

New York City is the center of western civilization. Chicago, even at it's height as the true "Second City", was still always second to New York. Why is New York even mentioned on the Chicago board? It borders on delusional... It's a completely different place with different forces at play. It's like owning a successful business and incredulously asking why it's Jeff Bezos that gets to go to space and not you.

Instead of wondering why New York builds taller/more towers (because the answers should not be even remotely befuddling), we should be asking why most of Chicago's actual peer cities--and even cities a tier below Chicago--are making big strides in things like public transit and beautification while Chicago can't even break ground on a neighborhood el stop 3 years behind schedule despite all of the economic metrics cited by marithsou above.

[Via Chicago]

the d*ck measuring thing is such a boring topic of conversation and always has been. isnt this why city vs city topics were banned in the first place?

there are plenty of cities on earth with huge skylines that are miserable and dispiriting places to live. there are others with enormous amounts of wealth that make daily existence untenable for your average middle class person. im much more interested in the quality of life your average resident has in any given city. shouldnt that be the barometer we hold ourselves to? whether we have the biggest collection of piles of steel or not dosent affect my day to day life. and gloating about wealth stratification/inequality is kind of a weird flex.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

there are plenty of cities on earth with huge skylines that are miserable and dispiriting places to live. there are others with enormous amounts of wealth that make daily existence untenable for your average middle class person. im much more interested in the quality of life your average resident has in any given city. shouldnt that be the barometer we hold ourselves to? whether we have the biggest collection of piles of steel or not dosent affect my day to day life. and gloating about wealth stratification/inequality is kind of a weird flex.

This.

Even if Chicago caught up to New York in terms of number of supertalls and population..... You aren't going to suddenly move the needle for anyone in either of these cities. Folks who love Chicago.... Will always love Chicago. Same goes for New Yorkers. Why? Because NYC is a completely different animal than Chicago. That's a good thing! I love cities that stand apart with their own unique identity. That's what makes a city interesting.

When I was in Europe last Fall, It was so fun to experience London, Paris, and Madrid. Only because each city had a completely different feel to it. Chicago shouldn't obsess about trying to be NYC. Chicago should obsess about being a better Chicago.

Remember guys:

"Make no little plans. They have no magic to stir men’s blood and probably themselves will not be realized. Make big plans; aim high in hope and work, remembering that a noble, logical diagram once recorded will never die, but long after we are gone will be a living thing, asserting itself with ever-growing insistency. Remember that our sons and grandsons are going to do things that would stagger us. Let your watchword be order and your beacon beauty. Think big."

[the urban politician]

You can't talk about skyscrapers without talking about egos. Egos are very much a part of this business. And so the egos of two cities will inevitably clash when both have a culture of building these structures, like it or hate it.

It's like Megatron and Starscream. NYC is the "superior" city and Chicago will always be jealous. Not because there is anything wrong with Chicago. But because New York exists, and Chicago will ALWAYS have an ego and can't stand it.

It's just the way it is, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[Steely Dan]

^ the most egotistical people are those who don't give a shit about anyone else and think only of themselves.

But Jan Brady doesn't have much of an ego of her own. She allows herself to be defined by who she is NOT, and that's actually really fucking sad and pathetic.



Grow a fucking pair of balls, Jan, and be your own person!

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

there are plenty of cities on earth with huge skylines that are miserable and dispiriting places to live. there are others with enormous amounts of wealth that make daily existence untenable for your average middle class person. im much more interested in the quality of life your average resident has in any given city. shouldnt that be the barometer we hold ourselves to? whether we have the biggest collection of piles of steel or not dosent affect my day to day life. and gloating about wealth stratification/inequality is kind of a weird flex.

Mostly agree. Hong Kong actually fits this - it ranks near the top of high rises/skyscrapers of any city in the world. It also has the most millionaires of any city in the world. Simply put though, it was the most depressing "first world" city I've ever been to. It's not all shiny like everyone thinks - pretty dirty actually in many spots - and many of the smaller buildings are falling apart or look like they are in some neighborhoods. A lot of the buildings are pretty depressing concrete blocks actually. Unless you make a lot of money, it's not that great of a place to live unless you are content with pretty small living spaces (some people live in 70 sq ft "apartments" without any windows and barely any air flow). There's a lot of living situations there which are definitely less than ideal.


Once upon a time, I used to be all about extreme height but these days, I think I've grown out of it as of a handful of years ago. I like height but very high density levels and great urbanity is easily achievable at the 6-8+ story level on a consistent basis. I think actually there's some great examples of this in Chicago in the last few years (maybe the 4-8 story level). As TUP mentioned, "Chicago" needs to focus on filling in the gaps and making an even more cohesive environment between neighborhoods. The north side is great, for the most part (the industrial areas where LY is for example is another story) and parts of other areas but - well...there's a lot of opportunity in the city to improve this IMO.

[marothisu]

By the way going back to before regarding Fortune 500 HQ. This is the count for the 2021 version by MSA:

1. NYC: 64 HQ
2. Chicago: 35
3. Houston: 23
4. Dallas: 21
5T. SF: 18
5T. San Jose: 18
7T. Atlanta: 17
7T. DC: 17
9. Minneapolis: 16
10. Boston: 15
11. Philadelphia: 14
12T. Denver: 11
12T. Los Angeles: 11
14T. Bridgeport, CT: 10
14T. Detroit: 10
14T. Miami: 10
17. Pittsburgh: 9
18T. Phoenix: 8
18T. Seattle: 8
18T. St. Louis: 8
21T. Charlotte: 7
21T. Cincinnati: 7
21T. Richmond: 7
24T. Milwaukee: 6
24T. Providence: 6


If you add up San Jose and San Francisco then they have 1 more than Chicago - basically even there between the 2 places in terms of number of Fortune 500 HQ.

[Chisouthside]

I think basically what it comes down to is what would you prefer. A couple more supertalls in this cycle vs the boom /transformation in West Loop as it syphons demand from downtown and other infill. I personally prefer the development going on versus potentially having a few more supertalls