Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[GenWhy?]

Are we in year 20 of a housing / poverty crisis yet?

[NewfBC]

Door kicked in, laptop stolen from senior in Vancouver library bathroom

VPD suggest that the suspect also assaulted the security guards at the library, and that the man has now been charged following an investigation.

The suspect also tried to run from police, but he was tracked down near the library and arrested following a foot chase. The VPD hasn’t provided an update on the status of the senior who was robbed, but they did say that no one was injured in the incident.

The suspect, a 29-year-old man, has no fixed address and he has been charged with assault with a weapon.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouve...VAoLgsPLj75EtSVAvw49lDwAbCqOu137PeB7U46k

Ron.

[mezzanine]

This popped up on Frances Bula's twitter feed the other day, where the author suspects poor quality, high-volume meth is driving mental illness and homelessness.

I'm agnostic about the causes and solutions to homelessness and disorder and open to new insight. Long term public health worries about "crack babies" didn't come to pass, but definitely came to pass with the effects of oxycontin so it's hard to say what to make of this now. And it still boils down to similar proposed actions - would a safer supply help? if not, what is the alternative, more incarceration?

Finally, in 2008, the Mexican government said only a few companies can possess ephedra and significantly reduced the amount of importation of the chemical. Once the government did that, the trafficking world in Mexico had to find a new way to produce meth. And they found a different way. There are a lot of chemicals. It stinks. It’s complicated. It has one benefit over ephedrine and that is that you can make the precursor many different ways with lots of different legal, industrial, toxic chemicals. The name of this precursor is phenyl-2-propanone, which is commonly known as P2P. With this new method, the government can really never crack down on your meth production the way they did with ephedrine.

....

the reformulation allows the mass distribution of methamphetamine unlike we’ve ever seen before. So it’s now all across the country, from LA to Vermont, including regions like New England where it never existed really before in large quantities.

Along the way though, what I found is that it is accompanied by rapid onset of severe symptoms of schizophrenia, particularly hallucinations. There is incoherent babbling. There’s an extraordinary degree of paranoia. It’s very intense, so you think everybody’s out to get you. No longer is it a party drug. It’s more of a sinister drug, where you kind of turn inward.

...

What happens is people very quickly become homeless. As this form of meth has marched across the country, we have also seen an enormous increase in mental illness and in homelessness, particularly the encampments that we now have in so many towns across the country. I believe the tent encampments are connected intimately with this kind of methamphetamine. Certainly nobody on this form of meth wants to be in a homeless shelter. Because they’re kind of paranoid and scared of everybody.

....

There have been no neuroscientific studies on this. So what exactly is happening? I don’t know. Is it because the meth has some new formulation or some new kind of chemical in it? Or, on the other hand, is it simply the fact that it’s so much more potent and so cheap and people are using lots of it? I don’t know. What I’m giving you is the street reporting, from talking to people who have worked in this world most of their professional lives, people who have been addicted to it and people now in recovery.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jan/22/fentanyl-methamphetamine-drugs-epidemic-us

[Conrad Yablonski]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

It's easy to overreact to one shocking incident. Give me statistics and proof, not melodramatic opinions.

In the past 3 years I've suffered two (2) unprovoked attacks from total strangers-one while cycling through the DES and another in front of my apartment building here in Kitsilano.

Not 'melodramatic opinion' just the simple truth.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Conrad Yablonski

In the past 3 years I've suffered two (2) unprovoked attacks from total strangers-one while cycling through the DES and another in front of my apartment building here in Kitsilano.

Not 'melodramatic opinion' just the simple truth.

That's what statistics are for: taking everybody's "simple truths," putting them all together and figuring out where our little truths fit into the big truth.

I've walked through downtown and Kits for seven straight years and been fine, but I'm not arrogant enough to believe that other people haven't had different experiences of Vancouver, or that mine is the only one that matters.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by rofina

Asking for statistics is backwards looking, its quite literally useless in preventing suffering and misery. I don't mean this in a flippant way - but as a Vancouverite, go out into the community and see what's happening. Anyone without rose colored glasses can see the massive scale of negative change.

Link to article quoted;

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/local...wart-vancouver-police-department-4977696

The title of the article you link to is literally "Crime continued to plummet in Vancouver in 2021".

The article has more nuance and complexity than that, revealing trends in certain aspects which you then cherry-picked to support your point of view, but overall it's not the melodramatic picture you are painting.

For me the answers lie in decriminalization, with a safe supply, and much more robust supports in place to help people transition out of despondent situations. And yes, all levels of government have failed in fully advocating for or implementing these necessary changes.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Conrad Yablonski

In the past 3 years I've suffered two (2) unprovoked attacks from total strangers-one while cycling through the DES and another in front of my apartment building here in Kitsilano.

Not 'melodramatic opinion' just the simple truth.

Yes, that is your truth and I empathize with your experiences. Mine have been different. That's why human beings created science and statistics to determine a more objective level of "truth".

[rofina]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

The title of the article you link to is literally "Crime continued to plummet in Vancouver in 2021".

Why the drop?

In a word, the pandemic.

Police have previously pointed to fewer people traveling to work, fewer vehicles parked on the street and more people working from home. Fewer people are also dining out, shopping and attending entertainment venues.

The only thing cherry picked is the title. 2/3 of the article is dedicated to why Vancourites feel less safe and how dramatically crime is increasing.

The article has more nuance and complexity than that, revealing trends in certain aspects which you then cherry-picked to support your point of view, but overall it's not the melodramatic picture you are painting.

The only nuance needed is things are getting worse and Vancouverites feel less safe now than they have in the last 3 decades.

You accuse me of being melodramatic and cherry picking accuse our police chief instead;

At the time, Palmer said police tracked 1,700 such incidents, or roughly four per day, between Sept. 1, 2020 and Aug. 31, 2021. Of those, 47 per cent involved a knife or some type of weapon, he said.
“I’ve been a police officer in this city for 34 years and I’ve never heard of such a thing before,” the chief said, adding that 28 per cent of the suspects arrested were living with some form of mental illness.

For me the answers lie in decriminalization, with a safe supply, and much more robust supports in place to help people transition out of despondent situations. And yes, all levels of government have failed in fully advocating for or implementing these necessary changes.

Vancouverites have failed via inability to produce sufficient amount of outrage at the absolute disastrous state of things.

I also think people like you don't really help with the lack of alarm.

Things are bad, trending in the direction of getting worse, but there doesn't appear to be a line at which you would agree immediate action is required.

You accuse me of being melodramatic. Lets wait until there are 10 random stabbings a day, maybe 20? What meets your threshold for not being too melodramatic?

The scene on East Hastings is acceptable? The growth of random attacks is acceptable? The human feces throughout the DTES are acceptable?

What is the line for you before citizens should demand action?

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by rofina

The only thing cherry picked is the title. 2/3 of the article is dedicated to why Vancourites feel less safe and how dramatically crime is increasing.

The only nuance needed is things are getting worse and Vancouverites feel less safe now than they have in the last 3 decades.

You accuse me of being melodramatic and cherry picking accuse our police chief instead;

Vancouverites have failed via inability to produce sufficient amount of outrage at the absolute disastrous state of things.

I also think people like you don't really help with the lack of alarm.

Things are bad, trending in the direction of getting worse, but there doesn't appear to be a line at which you would agree immediate action is required.

You accuse me of being melodramatic. Lets wait until there are 10 random stabbings a day, maybe 20? What meets your threshold for not being too melodramatic?

The scene on East Hastings is acceptable? The growth of random attacks is acceptable? The human feces throughout the DTES are acceptable?

What is the line for you before citizens should demand action?

Citizens should be demanding *appropriate* action and you are being melodramatic. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

When there is too much alarm and too much drama, people often tune it out and therefore it's not very effective.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Citizens should be demanding *appropriate* action and you are being melodramatic. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

When there is too much alarm and too much drama, people often tune it out and therefore it's not very effective.

I appreciate you.

Our conversation is why Vancouver will continue to spiral out of control.

I would say the City deserves it, its just deplorable it comes at the cost of the most vulnerable.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by rofina

I appreciate you.

Our conversation is why Vancouver will continue to spiral out of control.

I would say the City deserves it, its just deplorable it comes at the cost of the most vulnerable.

Downtown, the core of Vancouver, is indeed way more dangerous than other areas during the pandemic period, with the City not doing much to combat the issues. Overall property & vehicular crimes throughout the city are down simply because people are staying at home rather than going downtown to work.

However at the same time, the downtown criminals or those entering the core are getting more brazen: they are the ones responsible for shoplifting, destroying private & public properties, committing violent assaults, etc., resulting in the city becoming more unsafe. A concentration of crime including random assaults on individuals are getting worse here.

Hence we can disregard those who try to think otherwise. No need to pacify those in denial or are ignorant to what's happening here. The worst thing is they are totally unsympathetic to the increasing number of victims to crime in the downtown area.

[whatnext]

I hope forumers will also be on their guard in the crime-torn hellscape that is Richmond. A mass shooting with fatalities, when's the last time that happened in Vancouver?

4 people found dead inside Richmond, B.C., home were likely shot, homicide investigators say
Police say victims knew each other and were shot dead Monday evening
Bridgette Watson · CBC News · Posted: Jan 26, 2022

The RCMP's homicide unit is investigating after four people were found dead at a Richmond, B.C., house on Tuesday.

Richmond RCMP said officers were called to the 4500-block of Garden City Road in the city south of Vancouver late Tuesday night.

They found four people dead inside the home, according to a statement.

Police say the victims were likely shot and killed on Monday around 7 p.m. PT.

Investigators said initial evidence showed it was "a targeted shooting," but police do not believe the homicides are connected to Lower Mainland gang violence.

Officers also believe the victims knew each other....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/richmond-homicide-investigation-1.6328099

[Conrad Yablonski]

OK I think I'm coming to understand-because I lack appreciation for others non-experiences with street crime my thoughts lack something -not quite 'thought crime' yet but trending to 'the wrong side of thinking'.

Perhaps helpful posters here could post more of their 'transcendent street experiences' to leaven the tone of this thread.

[SpongeG]

the guy who attacked the asian woman on NYE outside the Georgia Hotel has been arrested and will stay in jail until his court date.

The guy who stabbed the Mexican tourist at the Tim Hortons has also been arrested.

[NewfBC]

At least 16 bus windows have been smashed around Vancouver

Metro Vancouver Transit Police are investigating a series of incidents involving bus windows being smashed in the Downtown Eastside.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/16-smash...vCkmZWw_Xv667IhLs1qxSUs4nzp9n2cfMPDWzE9M

Ron.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Conrad Yablonski

OK I think I'm coming to understand-because I lack appreciation for others non-experiences with street crime my thoughts lack something -not quite 'thought crime' yet but trending to 'the wrong side of thinking'.

Perhaps helpful posters here could post more of their 'transcendent street experiences' to leaven the tone of this thread.

Don't try and spin this around, you're the one trying to invalidate our experiences. Nobody's gaslighting anybody - all you've been asked for is some numbers that prove that your 0.66 attacks/year is a trend and you're not just really unlucky.

[Zepfancouver]

Was only a matter of time before our building would be a victim. Its not a violent crime but because of these property damages my business insurance went up 30% last year.
Who would do this, a smash and grab computer thief, a mentally ill street person or a homeless?
Jan 15th 2 am Saturday, woke up to what sounded like a bottle smashing onto the building, looked out and saw 3 teens or early 20's,
two of them grab their friend by the arm (who was staggering drunk and wearing a $200 hockey jersey who I think is the one who smashed the window) and started running up Burrard on to Drake.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

the guy who attacked the asian woman on NYE outside the Georgia Hotel has been arrested and will stay in jail until his court date.

The guy who stabbed the Mexican tourist at the Tim Hortons has also been arrested.

None of them "First Nations", I think. Some would like to think these guys "survived residential schools" and became coo coos.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

None of them "First Nations", I think. Some would like to think these guys "survived residential schools" and became coo coos.

Think again. And the residential school issue doesn't just affect those who attended; if parents or grandparents were forced into residential schools, they had no positive parenting experience, and so the entire family dynamic is damaged for generations.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Think again. And the residential school issue doesn't just affect those who attended; if parents or grandparents were forced into residential schools, they had no positive parenting experience, and so the entire family dynamic is damaged for generations.

Yep. Pretty easy to see how this happens for multiple generations. Breaking the cycle is hard.