Ontario Highways

[haljackey]

I only drive Highway 21 in the summer and it is busy as hell around the Grand Bend area. You could widen the highway between like The Pinery entrance and Grand Bend Line, possibly stretching it out as far as Port Franks to Bayfield or even Goderich, but that would just be a nicety.

The highway is busy but flows fine. Just need things like more dedicated right turn lanes and things to keep the highway moving quick.

[MolsonExport]

A traffic light is badly needed (during summer months) for the Pinery, as well as for the intersection at Greenway Road.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by jamincan

I'm not sure I would read into it as the MTO's intentions. The 69 realignment to Hwy 17, for example, has officially been abandoned to the best of my knowledge, despite the permit control remaining. Similarly, the Hanlon extension Dengler Avenue mentioned didn't even warrant mention in the Hwy 7 planning docs as I recall, which suggests that plans have been shelved.

Once the permit control area is implemented, there is very little reason for the MTO to remove the requirement since they don't benefit in any way by doing so. A government might see this as needless bureaucracy and force the MTO to eliminate it in places where it's no longer needed, but presumably this hasn't gotten high enough on anyone's radar to do something about it.

By the sounds of things, it is old and not up to date with everything. I wonder if the old freeway plans of Toronto are there....

[swimmer_spe]

I saw this on Facebook. If it doesn't load properly, it says "If highway capacity could fix traffic jams, then the 401 would be the easiest commute in the world. "

We know the 401 is the widest highway in Canada, and for a time, the widest in North America, and possibly the world. Now, other highways have grown even bigger. The 401 through Toronto highlights the problems with poor planning and poor execution.

1) The 401 is congested while the 407 isn't. Why is that? How can that be fixed? The 407 was designed as a bypass. the plans for it were that through traffic would take it instead of the 401 through the city of Toronto. The interchanges with the other major highways were planned to be built such that you did not slow down. Only the interchange with the 400 was built out to that. I know people will say it isn't possible, but the only real solution to get the 407 to take more traffic is to lower, or eliminate tolls.

2) Extending and widening the other 400 series highways will only add to the congestion. The 400 is being built out to a 3+HOV per side. That is only going to funnel even more cars to the 401.

Transit.......

1) If the goal was to reduce congestion on the 401, the lack of crosstown transit options only adds to the problem. Had the cancelled Eglinton Subway been built, it likely would have seen expansions beyond the original construction. This is one way that the congestion would be alleviated.

2) The Mid Town Corridor has been talked about for a long time, but no real move on it has happened. I envision it not only as a GO route connected the east to the west, but also a Via route with through trains between EO ans SWO. There are few through trains at Union.

3) frequent GO train service. Bringing 2WAD service to GO to ALL routes would be a good way to alleviate the traffic.

Adding more lanes will never reduce the congestion enough. We need to start adding more options.

[haljackey]

Greater Toronto is one of the fastest growing areas in North America. Of course we need to add more routes- both roads and transit- to alleviate congestion now and for the future.

Filling the Eglinton Subway with concrete was a dumb move. That could have helped.

Leasing the 407 ETR for 99 years was a dumb move. Keeping it in Ontario's hands could have helped.

Since then- no real action. Any action could have helped.

-----

Some stuff is on the horizon however. GTA West may take some traffic off the 401 if built. Eglinton crosstown LRT may also help once done and will contribute more if it's extended further to Pearson Airport perhaps. Extending the Shepard Stubway both ways can also help take some trips off the 401.

These will all slowly chip away some 401 drivers but not enough to outpace new drivers. So we need to keep the 401 moving as best we can since it's the backbone of Ontario's economy. An extra lane or two here and there won't do much to help, but the added capacity, especially in bottle-necked areas, will do something.

I'm also an advocate for converting the leftmost express lane of the 401 to HOV. Just some signs and a (big) bucket of white paint will increase the number of people that the freeway can carry. Don't really need those stripped buffer zones... those are just nice to have.

Cancelling the Gardiner's extension to the Highway 2A / 401 can be argued as a dumb move as well. It would have helped but has a lot more negative impacts than the others.

[Innsertnamehere]

The 401 widening in Milton will make a huge difference for that part of the GTA's traffic.

Contrary to popular opinion, widenings definitely help with travel times. Prior to the 404 widening north of the 401 about a decade ago that road was chronically congested and still operates generally fine to this day. Same with the 410 widening, though the fact that it terminates at Queen St instead of Bovaird or Sandalwood sort of mutes it's overall impact.

The 427 widening so far has had a huge impact there as well.

The only widening that seemed to see it's benefits disappear in the GTA in the last 10 years really is the QEW widening through Halton, but that's likely because it was such a minor capacity add with only adding a single HOV lane and the overall growth pressures that road is experiencing.

Planned transit improvements will help a lot as well - the GO network expansion is going to convert a ton of commuting trips over the next decade.

[Horus]

A question for those here who travel the highways in the GTA more regularly. I don't pass through there often anymore, but did use 401 and 400 over the holiday break. Since I was traveling with the whole family we made use of the HOV lanes, particularly on the 401 through Mississauga and on the 400 north through to King Road.

My question is about the effectiveness of these HOV lanes. Are they being effective? Given that the requirement is to have 2 or more people in the vehicle, does that make any appreciable difference during peak weekday hours?

I know my one experience, traveling between Christmas and New Year's during a pandemic, is in no way representative of how those lanes work under 'normal' traffic load, but my thought was that setting the usage threshold at 2 people is probably too low. I did experience a significant traffic slowdown in the Westbound Express coming up to Mavis Rd as the Express lanes are all pushed into the Collectors at that point. The HOV lane provided absolutely no benefit in that instance.

So, just wondering if they are of benefit in general and that I just had a bad experience?

[Dengler Avenue]

That might have been a one-off because the current merge from express to collector is in some sense improper. I’ve heard negative comments from engineers about it.

[Dengler Avenue]

In general, it really depends on the highway.
I’ve done south on 404 during PM rush. NB HOV lane moves slowly but at least faster than GPL (general-purpose lane).
QEW is hit or miss. Sometimes it can be faster (though we’re talking about moving at 75 kph). Sometimes it can be slower. It’s hopelessly congested.
On the 403, my anecdotal experience was that it was faster.
On the 417, lol is traffic even that bad through Kanata during rush hour…
As for 401, if you’re heading west, stay in the collector through Sauga.
(I’ve no experience with 400, 401 or 427 during rush hours.)

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Greater Toronto is one of the fastest growing areas in North America. Of course we need to add more routes- both roads and transit- to alleviate congestion now and for the future.

Filling the Eglinton Subway with concrete was a dumb move. That could have helped.

Leasing the 407 ETR for 99 years was a dumb move. Keeping it in Ontario's hands could have helped.

Since then- no real action. Any action could have helped.

-----

Some stuff is on the horizon however. GTA West may take some traffic off the 401 if built. Eglinton crosstown LRT may also help once done and will contribute more if it's extended further to Pearson Airport perhaps. Extending the Shepard Stubway both ways can also help take some trips off the 401.

These will all slowly chip away some 401 drivers but not enough to outpace new drivers. So we need to keep the 401 moving as best we can since it's the backbone of Ontario's economy. An extra lane or two here and there won't do much to help, but the added capacity, especially in bottle-necked areas, will do something.

I'm also an advocate for converting the leftmost express lane of the 401 to HOV. Just some signs and a (big) bucket of white paint will increase the number of people that the freeway can carry. Don't really need those stripped buffer zones... those are just nice to have.

Cancelling the Gardiner's extension to the Highway 2A / 401 can be argued as a dumb move as well. It would have helped but has a lot more negative impacts than the others.

The GTA West is a dumb move. It will follow the 407 for the entire routing. That means the government is going to spend billions if not trillions on a new highway when an underutilized one is near it.

For the 401, the only way they could actually alleviate congestion would be to build a deck over the highway and have that as an express that only connects with the 400 series highways. It would also need to be free. Then, maybe, it would be free flowing all the time. Till then, I'll pay the toll for the few times I go through there.

Toronto needs to start doing something smart. I have my doubts though.

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

The 401 widening in Milton will make a huge difference for that part of the GTA's traffic.

Contrary to popular opinion, widenings definitely help with travel times. Prior to the 404 widening north of the 401 about a decade ago that road was chronically congested and still operates generally fine to this day. Same with the 410 widening, though the fact that it terminates at Queen St instead of Bovaird or Sandalwood sort of mutes it's overall impact.

The 427 widening so far has had a huge impact there as well.

The only widening that seemed to see it's benefits disappear in the GTA in the last 10 years really is the QEW widening through Halton, but that's likely because it was such a minor capacity add with only adding a single HOV lane and the overall growth pressures that road is experiencing.

Planned transit improvements will help a lot as well - the GO network expansion is going to convert a ton of commuting trips over the next decade.

With the growth north of the city, it will be only a matter of time till the 404 gets back to it's old ways. Going south, it is always congested at the 401, even if the DVP and both ways of the 401 are free flowing.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by Horus

A question for those here who travel the highways in the GTA more regularly. I don't pass through there often anymore, but did use 401 and 400 over the holiday break. Since I was traveling with the whole family we made use of the HOV lanes, particularly on the 401 through Mississauga and on the 400 north through to King Road.

My question is about the effectiveness of these HOV lanes. Are they being effective? Given that the requirement is to have 2 or more people in the vehicle, does that make any appreciable difference during peak weekday hours?

I know my one experience, traveling between Christmas and New Year's during a pandemic, is in no way representative of how those lanes work under 'normal' traffic load, but my thought was that setting the usage threshold at 2 people is probably too low. I did experience a significant traffic slowdown in the Westbound Express coming up to Mavis Rd as the Express lanes are all pushed into the Collectors at that point. The HOV lane provided absolutely no benefit in that instance.

So, just wondering if they are of benefit in general and that I just had a bad experience?

My experience is that they work better on weekdays. On weekends when more people are driving with family and friends they are basically just another lane. Tuesday at 7am though? Empty.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

My experience is that they work better on weekdays. On weekends when more people are driving with family and friends they are basically just another lane. Tuesday at 7am though? Empty.

Thanks for this. You too, Dengler!

[swimmer_spe]

So, as I type this, the 401 through Toronto has been shut down for over 8 hours.We didn't get that storm, but it makes me think one simple thought:

"How do you like it?"

How do you like it when a storm come through and closes the major highway through your area?
How do you like it when it is unsafe to travel anywhere?
How do you like the risks associated with not being able to move your car for hours on end?

It is time to seriously fund our plowing in winter. It is much better to be stuck behind a plow than to be stuck not able to move on the highway.

[ScreamingViking]

Is this written out of concern? Or spite?


While working from home has the perk of not having to travel, I feel for the people who do, or have to clear the highways.

Winter is a devious mistress. The snow is so pretty at times, and so annoying and intrusive at others, sometimes dangerous.

I guess this means the bags of money coming from northern Ontario will be at least a day late. Pity.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

So, as I type this, the 401 through Toronto has been shut down for over 8 hours.We didn't get that storm, but it makes me think one simple thought:

"How do you like it?"

How do you like it when a storm come through and closes the major highway through your area?
How do you like it when it is unsafe to travel anywhere?
How do you like the risks associated with not being able to move your car for hours on end?

It is time to seriously fund our plowing in winter. It is much better to be stuck behind a plow than to be stuck not able to move on the highway.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Is this written out of concern? Or spite?


While working from home has the perk of not having to travel, I feel for the people who do, or have to clear the highways.

Winter is a devious mistress. The snow is so pretty at times, and so annoying and intrusive at others, sometimes dangerous.

I guess this means the bags of money coming from northern Ontario will be at least a day late. Pity.

It is written out of "how do you like it? You have been voting for the people that did the cuts." I don't wish any harm on anyone, but I hope people remember this in the spring when they vote.

[Marshsparrow]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

It is written out of "how do you like it? You have been voting for the people that did the cuts." I don't wish any harm on anyone, but I hope people remember this in the spring when they vote.

Nope... Ontario voters can't recall what happened in the morning let alone months - but they'll remember Doug Ford our shovelling on his hands and knees...

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

Nope... Ontario voters can't recall what happened in the morning let alone months - but they'll remember Doug Ford our shovelling on his hands and knees...

Was he shovelling? I only heard he was doing UBER, unmasked, breaking Toronto Heath Unit regulations.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

You have been voting for the people that did the cuts." I don't wish any harm on anyone, but I hope people remember this in the spring when they vote.

I have? Now I find out??? Damn.

I guess I'm just part of that big S.Ont blob who rules the known world, robs from the rich elsewhere to make our rich richer.

[Djeffery]

Yeah, let's keep 1000 or more extra plows on hand on the off chance we get a major storm every few years that dumps a massive amount of snow in a short period of time at the worst time of day. Maybe we can just heat the highway so snow melts on contact.

[JHikka]

I think my major issue with how this has been framed is that it's somehow Toronto's fault that it got 40-50cm dumped on it. Toronto didn't vote PC, and if car-centric suburbs in the GTA want to that's fine on them, but weather is weather regardless of what government there is at Queen's Park.

If someone from Toronto tried to blame people from literally anywhere else over the weather they'd be crucified. It's opportunistic at best.