Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[dleung]

Originally Posted by JHikka

This entire sentiment is just wholly unconstructive. "I assume she'll get cancelled", "here is where they turn on you". Anything to excuse and bat away racism in public spaces against visible minorities in this country I guess, particularly against Asians since the beginning of COVID.

Want to not get cancelled? Don't be racist. Not difficult.

If news come up of some woke rant by a bleeding heart liberal, somehow I don't see Acajack and theman23 rushing in with "oh here's where the MAGA's try to discredit CRT/BLM" or "they're having a bad day"

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by dleung

If news come up of some woke rant by a bleeding heart liberal, somehow I don't see Acajack and theman23 rushing in with "oh here's where the MAGA's try to discredit CRT/BLM" or "they're having a bad day"

So are you going to create a new portmanteau now?

"thejackman" sounds good.

At least I get to be first for once!

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't disagree, unless perhaps this was absolutely the only time in her life that she did this. And she might never ever do it again. (I'd also add that she looks like an upper middle class individual, and the supermarket is in Île-des-Soeurs, which is a pretty posh area of Montreal. I mean, it has a chandelier hanging over the entrance.)

Though as I've already mentioned, societal standards in 2021, for better or for worse, generally don't allow one to even do this once and get caught doing it, and then simply continue to have the same life one had immediately prior to the incident.

Yeah, she seems to align quite closely with the Karen trope.

If it was 1985 would the reaction be any different? (Assuming someone happened to have their handycam at the supermarket). I don’t recall any point in my lifetime where it was acceptable for anyone over the age of 3 to behave that way in a public place.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

So are you going to create a new portmanteau now?

"thejackman" sounds good.

At least I get to be first for once!

Sorry to bring the bad news but you're not first, you're in the middle... theman is first and last there

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Yeah, she seems to align quite closely with the Karen trope.

If it was 1985 would the reaction be any different? (Assuming someone happened to have their handycam at the supermarket). I don’t recall any point in my lifetime where it was acceptable for anyone over the age of 3 to behave that way in a public place.

So is it communications technology or societal standards that make this more of a more total life-destroying incident in 2022 than 1985? (Because I definitely think that it is.)

My guess is that it's a bit of both.

And I definitely think that the "just having a bad day" excuse or a sincere apology would have allowed someone to get out of this mess a lot more easily back then.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by acottawa

If it was 1985 would the reaction be any different? (Assuming someone happened to have their handycam at the supermarket). I don’t recall any point in my lifetime where it was acceptable for anyone over the age of 3 to behave that way in a public place.

You're right that "this absolutely isn't acceptable behavior" would be standard reaction for at least the entire lifetimes of anyone alive today, but the difference is probably that back in 1985, there wouldn't have been as serious a movement to try to make sure that person, whatever their résumé and diplomas, becomes irreversibly stuck living on welfare until their last breath, unless they start over in a new location with a new name.

"It's not acceptable". Sure, we're all in agreement there. So what should be the consequences, considering we all agree it's not acceptable? Death penalty? Slap on the wrist? Random on-camera apology to the next Asian who comes along?

[esquire]

I'd wager that the lady has some kind of mental illness and just had an episode of some sort. I'm not sure that everyone piling on her will help things out, assuming that anyone was concerned about her well being in the first place.

[jamincan]

Do we know yet if she actually did suffer any consequences besides being embarrassed on social media?

[Jimmy Nimby]

"Mistrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful. They are people of a low sort and stock; the hangman and the bloodhound look out of their faces"

- Nietzsche

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by Acajack

She also brags about being part of one of Montreal's top legal families. It's possible that they may get cancelled as well. Or at least "dinged".

She reminded me of that "mon père est plus riche que toi!" guy, pretty much the definition of an entitled tool. I hope she broke her phone when she slammed it down on the counter.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Hali87

She reminded me of that "mon père est plus riche que toi!" guy, pretty much the definition of an entitled tool. I hope she broke her phone when she slammed it down on the counter.

I'd forgotten about him.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I was going to say that she did appear to be "on" something. Perhaps more medication than alcohol or illicit drugs.

My gut instinct was meth, tbh.

[someone123]

To me the weird thing about the interpretation of these events is that they're often taken to reveal deep truths about Canadian society or tie in with grand themes ("Asian hate"). I think it's much closer to the truth to blandly observe that people are crazy sometimes and when you have millions of phones you'll sometimes get video of outlier events. Also people who are mad often say things specifically to provoke a bad reaction and racism is one of our greatest taboos right now. If cats were our holiest concept in society we'd have videos of people saying cats are stupid and ugly, and they would be considered outrageous.

I also believe that we have to get away from the idea that crazy people have tons of power because they can say racist stuff (or call somebody fat or ugly?). They do not actually have any power. Of course a lot of this is fake, and people just want to be seen positioning themselves against bad stuff. I'm not sure there's anything inherently bad about this (it's good to have positive social norms), but it seems to get unhealthy on social media sometimes.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

To me the weird thing about the interpretation of these events is that they're often taken to reveal deep truths about Canadian society or tie in with grand themes ("Asian hate"). I think it's much closer to the truth to blandly observe that people are crazy sometimes and when you have millions of phones you'll sometimes get video of outlier events. Also people who are mad often say things specifically to provoke a bad reaction and racism is one of our greatest taboos right now. If cats were our holiest concept in society we'd have outrage videos of women on meth (or whatever) saying cats are stupid and ugly or whatever.

We had this here in Vancouver, which is maybe 40-50% Asian, with the notion that a crackhead pushing over an old Asian lady was evidence of some big hate wave and should cause the city to do some kind of soul searching or somehow switch gears (unclear how you do that when you're already near max neuroticism; in practice people just moved on to the next outrage item).

As usual, the hyperbole has come out with people saying that this is typical of what an Asian-Canadian person faces everyday, just as we heard about the islamophobic attack in London (stuff like this happens every day in Canada!), or the n-word debate (every day I leave the house I am terrified someone will call me the n-word!).

Canada is a diverse country with millions of people living in it. No doubt that hateful stuff happens multiple times every single day. Each individual case is unacceptable.

But it's hard to believe that there are many single individuals facing hateful stuff personally every single day.

This doesn't of course make it acceptable even if it only happens once, but even the victim in this verbal attack said he was gobsmacked because nothing like this had ever happened in his 20 years living in Canada.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

This doesn't of course make it acceptable even if it only happens once, but even the victim in this verbal attack said he was gobsmacked because nothing like this had ever happened in his 20 years living in Canada.

To me the biggest thing is I wonder if this amping up of supposed hatred is actually healthy for the purported targets themselves. You can always be nervous about how people feel about you but often it's unhelpful.

I don't think the idea that we should get more and more sensitive about the social problems of the 1960's is a path to a better future either. We need some new stuff.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

I don't think the idea that we should get more and more sensitive about the social problems of the 1960's is a path to a better future either. We need some new stuff.

You mean new social problems? In addition to the ones we already have and haven't yet resolved?

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You mean new social problems? In addition to the ones we already have and haven't yet resolved?

Our main social problems are that large portions of society can't afford very good housing where they want to live, a lot of people are getting expensive education that isn't translating into higher productivity, and our healthcare system is mediocre. The Civil-Rights-era-descended "lens" adds very little to the understanding of those issues as they exist in present-day Canada. I'm not sure we are, as a society/polity, converging on solutions to any of those. If we fixed them, Asians in Canada would be immeasurably better off than if we eliminated the remaining racist ranting crazy people who by and large have no real impact on anything.

The standard reply to something like this is that it's "whataboutism" or these can all be fixed at the same time. But I think we clearly devote hugely disproportionate attention to relatively minor stuff in Canada, and there's only so much public attention, so many issues you can focus on in the media, or so many that elections can revolve around.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

To me the biggest thing is I wonder if this amping up of supposed hatred is actually healthy for the purported targets themselves. You can always be nervous about how people feel about you but often it's unhelpful.

I've often wondered about the psychological impact of constantly thinking that most everyone around you hates you for what you look like or are, and that at any moment they could act upon that either verbally or physically.

[CivicBlues]

How is it you can multi-post bloviate in multi-threads across multiple subforums within a span of minutes? it's mind-boggling how omnipresent you are on this forum.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

How is it you can multi-post bloviate in multi-threads across multiple subforums within a span of minutes? it's mind-boggling how omnipresent you are on this forum.

Is he using more than his allotted share of posts per day or something? If not, then who cares?