NEW YORK | HDSN (418 11th Ave) | FT | 70 & 40 FLOORS - Page 19

Busy Bee · #**361** Posted **Dec 23, 2021, 6:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy

If it would have been a mixed-use residential/office or residential/hotel it would have included affordable housing.

...

As to why that particular team didn't include it, why should they above anyone else have included it? Was the affordable housing somehow going to be for minority residents only?

This is pretty much exactly the answer I was hoping to avoid with my question. I wasn't trying to make this a race thing in any manner. I do think it is a totally fair to suggest though that, if the development had originally been proposed as residential or partial residential, an all black development team would prioritize an affordable component. Whether they would prioritize more than any others is a fair question in this current society of ours that need not be critically picked apart.

NYguy · #**362** Posted **Dec 23, 2021, 6:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

I do think it is a totally fair to suggest though that, if the development had originally been proposed as residential or partial residential, an all black development team would prioritize an affordable component.

There is nothing fair about that at all. Some would go as far to suggest such a statement as racist. I don't think that's your intent. But why would anyone think that an all-black team should build affordable housing over anyone else? For one thing, it is not just black people who lack affordable housing in the city. For another thing, as I've said earlier, it doesn't mean that it would be housing for black people. The suggestion makes no sense at all, and you should leave it alone.

Personally, I don't think this is the site for affordable housing at all. But whoever builds it builds it.

Hudson11 · #**363** Posted **Dec 23, 2021, 7:12 PM**

I don't think we've seen the last of Affirmation Tower. It was programmed with two hotels so I don't see why one of those can't be eliminated in favor of 100% affordable apartments in addition to the one hotel and the office space. They could also get rid of the observatory to free up more space. They don't need an observatory with The Edge so near.

TonyNYC · #**364** Posted **Dec 23, 2021, 7:14 PM**

[QUOTE=NYguy;9485180]I agree. It's just a waste of time, and a new process likely won't even begin for a few more months (at least). So we're looking at maybe a year before we even get new bids. I know in the long scheme of things, the state has a lot to consider. There are RFPs that will eventually be issued for the Port Authority Bus terminal sites, as well as the Penn Station development sites. But those are future developments, years away from anything. This is a prime development site that is ready to be built on now. The Hudson Yards is blossoming. There's no need to put a lid on this site. Go big, regardless of what the development is. The issue of affordable housing can be focused on elsewhere. It's a great, big city.

Another question I have is what was the rush to make this particular announcement before Christmas?

Typical BS from the State. I agree 100% with you NY Guy, this is NOT the right Location/area for Affordable Housing component. The Hudson Yards/Manhattan West area is quickly becoming the #1 new business district anywhere, now is the time to build on this site.

I wasn't a fan of the Affirmative tower, would've liked to have seen those 5 other proposals.. but now.. doesn't really matter, unless they reconsider.

What a waste of time!

NYguy · #**365** Posted **Dec 23, 2021, 7:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hudson11

Affirmation Tower was programmed with two hotels so I don't see why one of those can't be eliminated in favor of 100% affordable apartments in addition to the one hotel and the office space. They could also get rid of the observatory to free up more space. I don't think we've seen the last of it.

That building was designed as an office tower, with some hotel components, but it was mostly an office tower. It wasn't the half and half scenario that would make sense if you included 30% affordable housing. Developers carefully consider what uses to put in a building, and that directly affects design - and costs.

NYguy · #**366** Posted **Dec 23, 2021, 7:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyNYC

I agree 100% with you NY Guy, this is NOT the right Location/area for Affordable Housing component. The Hudson Yards/Manhattan West area is quickly becoming the #1 new business district anywhere, now is the time to build on this site.

I wasn't a fan of the Affirmative tower, would've liked to have seen those 5 other proposals.. but now.. doesn't really matter, unless they reconsider.

The Hudson Yards is currently getting the top rents overall, and is doing just fine for the office sector. If the state combines these two sites into one RFP process, I could see a stipulation for some affordable housing component thrown in there, just so they could say they did something. But this quote is ominous to me...

Quote:

It is critical that this site fulfill the Governor’s goal of delivering on the needs of New Yorkers today and into tomorrow.

What does that even mean?

Manitopiaaa · #**367** Posted **Dec 23, 2021, 7:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy

What does that even mean?

I believe that's what we call an empty platitude.

DCReid · #**368** Posted **Dec 23, 2021, 7:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa

I believe that's what we call an empty platitude.

I bet they want a complex of 100% affordable housing buildings, a small scale of some of the complexes built during the Robert Moses Years. Good luck with that!

NYguy · #**369** Posted **Dec 23, 2021, 9:09 PM**

^ They’re trying to get 100% “affordability” at 5 WTC. That won’t happen.

I could see some type of scenario where current proposals put together with some type of housing on the larger site could be called for. Publicly, the state could call that a win. I just don’t know if they are inclined to do that.

NYguy · #**370** Posted **Dec 23, 2021, 9:16 PM**

https://therealdeal.com/2021/12/23/new-york-state-halts-plans-for-hudson-yards-development-site/

Dec. 23, 2021
By Kathryn Brenzel

Quote:

….A proposal for what would have been one of the city’s tallest skyscrapers is now on ice.

State officials this week rescinded a request for proposals for a 1.2 acre site on Manhattan’s West Side, where a team led by the Peebles Corp. envisioned a 2 million-square-foot tower built and mostly funded by Black-owned companies.

The skyscraper proposed for the state-owned site at 418 11th Avenue would have marked a record addition to the city’s skyline. Dubbed “Affirmation Tower,” the building was set to stand 1,663 feet, taller than One World Trade Center in terms of floor height, but second in spire height.

In a statement after the RFP was rescinded, the team behind the Affirmation Tower said it views the move “as a temporary setback.”

“We are confident when the state of New York re-issues a new RFP, we will have the winning proposal,” the spokesperson said. “We await the next steps.”

Quote:

Officials encouraged hotel development “complementary to the Javits Center,” which is located across the street from the long-empty lot.

But much has changed since the request was issued — most notably, the governor.

Former Gov. Andrew Cuomo had pitched the site as part of a broader transformation of what he dubbed “Midtown West.” The site on 11th, as well as another state-owned parcel and a few of the sites surrounding Penn Station, would include a total of 1,400 affordable housing units, he announced at the time. But Empire State Development, which has also proposed changes to the governor’s initiative, appears keen on narrowing what it will permit on the state-owned site.

C. · #**371** Posted **Dec 28, 2021, 12:16 AM**

My two cents... Normally I'm all for mixed-use (office, residential) development, but this is one of the rare occasions that commercial uses/hotel would have been better. It's an odd site for affordable housing.

Yackemflaber69 · #**372** Posted **Dec 28, 2021, 1:27 AM**

Honestly, not a fan of this design. I hope they change it

Zapatan · #**373** Posted **Dec 28, 2021, 8:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yackemflaber69

Honestly, not a fan of this design. I hope they change it

You're in luck. According to the last few pages of this thread, Adjaye's design will likely not be the one chosen. Hopefully the others are both tall and decent looking, and aren't racially motivated to the point where it's a little strange.

NYguy · #**374** Posted **Jan 11, 2022, 6:47 PM**

I hope this is not a mistake.

https://patch.com/new-york/midtown-nyc/a...n-skyscraper-should-be-revived-developer

Dropped Hell's Kitchen Skyscraper Should Be Revived: Developer
A developer wants Gov. Kathy Hochul to reconsider her decision to kill the gravity-defying skyscraper proposed for a Hell's Kitchen lot.

By Nick Garber
Jan 11, 2022

Quote:

A developer who wanted to build a gravity-defying skyscraper on an empty Hell's Kitchen lot is pressing Gov. Kathy Hochul to reconsider her recent move to drop plans to redevelop the site — saying polling backs up their case.

Andrew Cuomo announced that the state was seeking proposals to build on the site — only for his successor Kathy Hochul to revoke that request last month, saying more community input was needed.

That abrupt move imperiled the one proposal for Site K that had been publicly revealed: a mind-bending, 1,500-foot-tall skyscraper developed by The Peebles Corporation. Known as "Affirmation Tower" and designed by star architect David Adjaye, the project was revealed last fall and pitched as Manhattan's first skyscraper to be built by an entirely Black team.

Quote:

In a statement after Hochul revoked the request for proposals, the Affirmation Tower team called the move "a temporary setback," saying they were "confident" that the state would soon issue a new request.

On Tuesday, the developers escalated things by releasing a set of polls conducted on behalf of the Peebles Corporation, showing a majority of surveyed New Yorkers supported building the tower once they learned about it.

Quote:

Conducted in December by Schoen Cooperman Research, the poll surveyed more than 1,000 people who planned to vote in this year's New York general election — and 475 who will vote in the June Democratic primary, where Hochul will be seeking a full term.

It found that about a quarter of general election voters already knew about the proposal, of whom 75 percent supported it. Support among all primary voters jumped to 68 percent when respondents were given a series of pro-development talking points, including that the tower would create "thousands of jobs," stimulate billions in economic output and empower Black developers and designers.

While the developers did not spell out their motive, the implication was clear: that Hochul's re-election bid would be boosted if she backed the tower. Still, if the proposal does not change, it might have a tough time winning support from local leaders, given its lack of housing.

NewYorkCity76 · #**375** Posted **Jan 11, 2022, 8:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy

I hope this is not a mistake.

https://patch.com/new-york/midtown-nyc/a...n-skyscraper-should-be-revived-developer

Dropped Hell's Kitchen Skyscraper Should Be Revived: Developer
A developer wants Gov. Kathy Hochul to reconsider her decision to kill the gravity-defying skyscraper proposed for a Hell's Kitchen lot.

By Nick Garber
Jan 11, 2022

That's good news! Basically, Hochul might have a risk of not winning re-election if she doesn't support this tower.

JMKeynes · #**376** Posted **Jan 11, 2022, 8:27 PM**

I really hope that this gets revived as is!

NYguy · #**377** Posted **Jan 11, 2022, 8:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewYorkCity76

That's good news! Basically, Hochul might have a risk of not winning re-election if she doesn't support this tower.

I don’t think it’s that big of an issue. This is not how bids are won. But I do think developers should do this type of citywide polling. Too often projects are seen as undesirable simply because community boards (which aren’t a true reflection if a community) say “we don’t like it” or “ its too tall.”

But I would be very surprised if the revised RFPs don’t mandate some type of affordable housing on one of the sites.

NewYorkCity76 · #**378** Posted **Jan 11, 2022, 8:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy

I don’t think it’s that big of an issue. This is not how bids are won. But I do think developers should do this type of citywide polling. Too often projects are seen as undesirable simply because community boards (which aren’t a true reflection if a community) say “we don’t like it” or “ its too tall.”

But I would be very surprised if the revised RFPs don’t mandate some type of affordable housing on one of the sites.

I would be surprised too if Hochul decided to completely scrap the affordable housing idea for this tower. But also I'm also curious about the other 6 bids

MAC123 · #**379** Posted **Jan 11, 2022, 9:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewYorkCity76

That's good news! Basically, Hochul might have a risk of not winning re-election if she doesn't support this tower.

Doubtful. Sounds like posturing from the developers. Not that it really matters anyway, I expect this tower to go through. Besides we haven't even seen any of the other proposals for the site.

NewYorkCity76 · #**380** Posted **Jan 11, 2022, 10:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAC123

Doubtful. Sounds like posturing from the developers. Not that it really matters anyway, I expect this tower to go through. Besides we haven't even seen any of the other proposals for the site.

Yeah, you're right. This is why I hope we'll be able to see the other proposals that are tall as this current one or even taller.