NEW YORK | Empire Station District | 9 Towers (18-20 msf)| FT | FLOORS

[NYguy]

This is great....a condensed version of that article.


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[MAC123]

Originally Posted by NYguy

This is great....a condensed version of that article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy
A much less condensed version of that article.

[Zapatan]

“I still have PTSD from the Tour Montparnasse,” Law-Gisiko told The Post, adding that her Parisian education and culture inform both her persistence to fight for what she thinks is right, as well as her sense of taste and style.

Right, because clearly they plan on building Tour Montparnasse 8 times over at Penn Station


If she can't actually do anything I'd rather not give her any attention or time of day.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

If she can't actually do anything I'd rather not give her any attention or time of day.

I would rather not give her any attention either. But just pretending something doesn’t exist doesn’t make it so. She’s made herself part of the story, and you’ll be hearing more from her I’m sure.

[NYguy]

Second hearing is scheduled for January….

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by NYguy

But just pretending something doesn’t exist doesn’t make it so.

So true. I tried that from 2016-2020 and it was an enormous challenge.

[NYguy]

^ Careful.



https://patch.com/new-york/midtown-nyc/a...enters-race-for-gottfrieds-assembly-seat

Midtown Advocate Enters Race For Gottfried's Assembly Seat
Layla Law-Gisiko, an opponent of the state's Penn Station development plan, is the first candidate to announce a run for the open seat.


https://patch-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ii/...ells-kitchen-gottfried___17160258969.jpg

By Nick Garber
Dec 17, 2021

Days after — Gottfried said he would retire from the State Assembly next year after a half-century representing Manhattan, at least one contender has already put her name forward for the soon-to-be-open seat.

Layla Law-Gisiko, a Midtown advocate and fierce opponent of the state's plan to develop the area around Penn Station, announced her candidacy Thursday outside the Hotel Pennsylvania — slated to be demolished as part of the controversial program.

Law-Gisiko, 50, is originally from France but has lived in the Flatiron area for more than 20 years. For 16 years, she has served on Midtown's Community Board 5, where she chairs the zoning committee.

In recent months, Law-Gisiko has also come out strongly against the proposal, originally unveiled by Gov. Andrew Cuomo, to build 10 towers around Penn Station in a bid to raise revenues for transit improvements, but which critics say would do little to fix the beleaguered retail hub.

"It is not about Penn Station at all," Law-Gisiko said. "It's bad for transportation, it’s not creating enough subway entrances, it’s bad through and through."

Though Hochul scaled back the plan last month, critics say it still suffers from the same fundamental flaws.

If elected, Law-Gisiko said she would first approach the Assembly members who serve on the state's Public Authorities Control Board and tell them to vote against the Penn project. From there, she would push to hand the project back to the city government, which has more expertise dealing with complex land-use deals.

In opposing the development, Law-Gisiko joins other neighborhood leaders like Community Board 4 chair Lowell Kern — who also happens to be considering a run for Gottfried's seat, according to a person familiar with his plans.

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by NYguy

I would rather not give her any attention either. But just pretending something doesn’t exist doesn’t make it so. She’s made herself part of the story, and you’ll be hearing more from her I’m sure.

Right, but is there any actual concern that one woman can ruin this entire project? Seems kinda unlikely.

That would really — since there's potential for several cool supertalls here, it's also some of the last available space to build this high / amount of SF in Manhattan probably.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

Right, but is there any actual concern that one woman can ruin this entire project? Seems kinda unlikely.

What may seem unlikely sometimes turns out just the opposite. But the goid news is that we get to watch and follow for free.

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by NYguy

What may seem unlikely sometimes turns out just the opposite. But the goid news is that we get to watch and follow for free.

Well now I'm worried... what a blown opportunity

[Raysiri]

I wonder what will be the tallest building in this complex. I’m pretty sure it’s a twin building that had one tower measuring 1,755’, or maybe I’m wrong.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Raysiri

I wonder what will be the tallest building in this complex. I’m pretty sure it’s a twin building that had one tower measuring 1,755’, or maybe I’m wrong.

Don’t know where you get that, but it’s not this development.

We don’t know what the tallest building will be. The plan is in cenceptual phase. The closest you can get to a design is 15 Penn, part of the project that is independent of the overall plan, approved over a decade ago, and even that can be revised.

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by Raysiri

I wonder what will be the tallest building in this complex. I’m pretty sure it’s a twin building that had one tower measuring 1,755’, or maybe I’m wrong.

I think that was just a concept, but I remember what you're referring to, it had a ridiculous amount of setbacks and a smaller twin I think.

We don’t know what the tallest building will be. The plan is in cenceptual phase. The closest you can get to a design is 15 Penn, part of the project that is independent of the overall plan, approved over a decade ago, and even that can be revised.

Maybe we'll see NY's first mega tall here and what's her face can go cry about it. Is that too optimistic?

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

Maybe we'll see NY's first mega tall here and what's her face can go cry about it. Is that too optimistic?

If you’ve seen an indication that’s going to happen, then go for it.

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by NYguy

If you’ve seen an indication that’s going to happen, then go for it.

I'm just looking at the first page, if I remember correctly wasn't one of the sites potentially 3-4 MSF? Maybe not mega tall material but maybe a new tallest for NYC...

The state could also gain the power to increase zoning in the area to encourage the construction of towers of unprecedented height and bulk.

[Raysiri]

Originally Posted by NYguy

Don’t know where you get that, but it’s not this development.

We don’t know what the tallest building will be. The plan is in cenceptual phase. The closest you can get to a design is 15 Penn, part of the project that is independent of the overall plan, approved over a decade ago, and even that can be revised.

Found it here: https://newyorkyimby.com/2021/01/twin-su...-square-garden-in-midtown-manhattan.html

[Hudson11]

They already limited the heights of the buildings in Hochul's review, don't expect several 1200 footers here. They made it a point that they decreased the allowed height and density of the buildings versus Cuomo's vision.

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by Hudson11

They already limited the heights of the buildings in Hochul's review, don't expect several 1200 footers here. They made it a point that they decreased the allowed height and density of the buildings versus Cuomo's vision.

Wasn't it just the density that was limited in the last review? Like the square footage was cut but theoretically a tall tower could still be built.

I'm looking at NYguy's quote from a couple pages ago

The reason they always give heights in these situations (Cuomo originally didn't) is so it can help people "visualize" what could be built. But I think that's the wrong approach, because even here on a skyscraper forum where we know better, it can confuse some. Reducing the density in theory reduces the height. But if there are no height limits outright, it doesn't really mean anything. You would have to do something along the lines of what they did at the WTC.

The best they could do is limit the FAR, which is the old fashioned way of limiting how high a building can rise on a given site. So, as you can see here, site 2A, which was to be the largest tower, took the biggest hit (from 36 to 26!). Likewise, the massing was reversed again on site 2 with the larger tower being on 7th Avenue. They want the towers to scale down in height, which doesn't make any sense when you consider there's a whole Hudson Yards to the west. What also doesn't make sense is trying to reduce the density around Penn Station in the first place. But politicians try to appease people, people who have no appetite to be appeased. They won't care about this "height cut". They want the whole thing scrapped.

And it looks like no change at all on sites 4, 7, and 8.

[Crawford]

Technically there are no height or density rules. This is under the purview of the ESDC, a state agency. Also, technically the city has no role whatsoever in what gets built.

But, in practice, the height/density of the towers will likely conform with the governor's recommendations, so if the towers are built under Hochul, they'll meet her guidelines.

Of course it's highly unlikely that all the towers will be built under Hochul, but the first few towers almost certainly will.

[Hudson11]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

Wasn't it just the density that was limited in the last review? Like the square footage was cut but theoretically a tall tower could still be built.

I'm looking at NYguy's quote from a couple pages ago

Hochul's plan decreased the density to decrease the heights. There is no other reason to decrease buildable density in such a transit rich area. Either way i'm more concerned about the more important aspects of the plan such as the station itself and public realm improvements to the immediate area than whatever gets built up around the station to fund it. Fix the station first, then tenants will flock to the neighborhood and taller buildings will proliferate.