Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Acajack]

Those days are gone forever, I'm afraid.

[blacktrojan3921]

Originally Posted by theman23

Not sure why you think this is noteworthy. Do offices in Calgary and Vancouver have an abundance of French speakers?

I mean, here in Regina, my dad is a proficient french speaker (since he was born and raised in Montreal), plus my sister went to a former french language school from Kindergarten to Grade 5 before transferring to the school I went to, McLurg for the remainder of the elementary school. There's even like a few french immersion elementary schools and a couple of francophone schools around here, as well as a single francophone high school.

But honestly not many people here speak french fluently; I certainly can't, no matter how much I tried to learn.

[p_xavier]

This must be the most Québécois thing ever.

30yo comedians playing American teenagers and shot in English and dubbed by themselves in France French with France idioms. It's way too funny.

https://www.noovo.ca/emissions/completement-lycee/bienvenue-a-new-garden-hills-valley-s1e1

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by blacktrojan3921

I mean, here in Regina, my dad is a proficient french speaker (since he was born and raised in Montreal), plus my sister went to a former french language school from Kindergarten to Grade 5 before transferring to the school I went to, McLurg for the remainder of the elementary school. There's even like a few french immersion elementary schools and a couple of francophone schools around here, as well as a single francophone high school.

But honestly not many people here speak french fluently; I certainly can't, no matter how much I tried to learn.

My old pure laine Quebecer friends who moved to Europe can't even speak French anymore. I still don't get how you can forget your mother tongue.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by p_xavier

This must be the most Québécois thing ever.

30yo comedians playing American teenagers and shot in English and dubbed by themselves in France French with France idioms. It's way too funny.

https://www.noovo.ca/emissions/completement-lycee/bienvenue-a-new-garden-hills-valley-s1e1

Ouate de phoque? I am so very confused.

Is that Bernard Fortin? And Katherine Levac?

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Ouate de phoque? I am so very confused.

Is that Bernard Fortin? And Katherine Levac?

Yup! "Un papa dinde c'est comme un papa poule mais avec une plus grosse queue." lol C'est vraiment trop bon comme concept.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by le calmar

I always wondered why he grew up a Habs fan. Was it a common thing for someone in Upstate NY to cheer for the Canadiens, or if he is an exception? I can’t imagine it is still a thing today with the restrictions with regard to the border, the Franco-American culture vanishing slowly but surely and the rise of patriotism, but there still appears to be a small stronghold of Habs fans holding the fort just across the border.

No, they are very popular in Upstate NY. After Rangers and Sabres (WNY). I had a good friend who was a die hard Habs fan.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by p_xavier

Yup! "Un papa dinde c'est comme un papa poule mais avec une plus grosse queue." lol C'est vraiment trop bon comme concept.

Hahaha. Je vais en parler avec mes enfants.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JManc

No, they are very popular in Upstate NY. After Rangers and Sabres (WNY). I had a good friend who was a die hard Habs fan.

Nice of you to visit. Did you self-isolate after crossing the border?

[JHikka]

Pearl Eliadis on the Overreach of Bill 96
Pearl Eliadis argues that Bill 96 goes far beyond what is necessary or appropriate to protect the French language.
Pearl Eliadis | 6 Dec 2021

Bill 96 has been widely condemned because of its pre-emptive derogations from human rights protections: all fundamental freedoms, legal rights and equality rights under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms [the “Charter”], and the Quebec Charter of human rights and freedoms [the “Quebec Charter] are no longer available to anyone in Quebec who experiences a violation of rights under Bill 96.

The Bill also ignores the modern reality of Quebec, in that large numbers of immigrants, whose mother languages are neither French nor English, are learning French and living in several languages. It is also a clear violation of international human rights law, a dimension that is rarely discussed in the media or, to date, in written submissions under the Bill.

Most Canadians – including Anglophone Quebecers – understand the precariousness of the French language in North America and the uniqueness of Quebec culture. Appropriate measures are needed to protect the viability of the French language.

However, Bill 96 goes much further than would be justified by any rational approach to protecting the French language. For example, Bill 96 will bar a few thousand Anglophones from English CEGEPs but that measure will have no real effect on the decline of people whose mother tongue is French in Quebec, a decline that is supposedly at the heart of the policy objectives underpinning the Bill. Because of its disproportionality, it violates constitutional principles of fundamental justice under Section 7 of the Canadian Charter as described by the Supreme Court of Canada in the Carter case—but the Quebec government has overridden Section 7 by using the notwithstanding clause in section 33 of the Charter, making access to a Charter challenge impossible.

https://www.mcgill.ca/maxbellschool/article/the-overreach-of-bill-96

[Acajack]

I'd definitely disagree that there is anything in UN or international human rights conventions that requires Quebec to provide any publicly-funded English-first schooling with open access to anyone who wants to attend.

International human rights jurisprudence and texts on the rights of minorities do not require states to provide public education in minority languages.

In fact, most countries in the world do not provide K-12 public education in minority languages.

One might even say that Canada, if for example it were a unitary state, would be under no international obligation (legal or moral) to provide public education in French to its francophone minority - even those in the present-day boundaries of Quebec.

[lio45]

It’s ridiculous to see these outsiders decide what’s “disproportional”. They’re clueless about things on the ground here. No one is interested in their opinion.

If the democratically elected Government of Poland goes and introduces a new measure that most Poles asked for and find reasonable (and doesn’t harm the planet), who am I, who never set foot in Poland, to whine on online forums that *I* am finding that that new measure of theirs “is disproportional”? That’s just crazy to me. I’d never do that. I respect democracy too much for that.

Quebec Derangement Syndrome.

[dleung]

lol what's with all the "Poland" hypotheticals. It's always "Poland"

Acajack seems pretty concerned lately with how various ROC cities spend their "taxdollars" (code for something the taxpayer should dislike) lol

[lio45]

Actually last time I went with Czechia

Poland is a pretty good example every time we need an example of a foreign culture that’s democratically doing their own thing their own way. They have their own language and culture and institutions, while being globally not relevant (they can do things the way they want and it doesn’t impact global geopolitics).

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I'd definitely disagree that there is anything in UN or international human rights conventions that requires Quebec to provide any publicly-funded English-first schooling with open access to anyone who wants to attend.

International human rights jurisprudence and texts on the rights of minorities do not require states to provide public education in minority languages.

In fact, most countries in the world do not provide K-12 public education in minority languages.

One might even say that Canada, if for example it were a unitary state, would be under no international obligation (legal or moral) to provide public education in French to its francophone minority - even those in the present-day boundaries of Quebec.

Keep in mind that Quebec has no international legal personality - all obligations at inntl law are those of Canada.

[lio45]

Quebec is providing universal access to publicly-funded schools in (an) official language of the country that’s the internationally-recognized entity, so that complies, no?

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by lio45

It’s ridiculous to see these outsiders decide what’s “disproportional”. They’re clueless about things on the ground here. No one is interested in their opinion.

I generally agree that there's a point at which the provinces should just be allowed to be themselves when it comes to things that are under their jurisdiction. It feels like a lot of people in the ROC want to "intervene" in Quebec when it comes to these cultural Bills, but IMO it's not really anyone else's business at this point

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Keep in mind that Quebec has no international legal personality - all obligations at inntl law are those of Canada.

Correct.

Which actually means that from the perspective of international law, Québécois francophones are in fact a minority in all senses of that term. Since there is a higher order government above them that they do not control politically or demographically.

The UN has actually made this point in the past when Anglo-Quebecers have gone to NY to complain bout Bill 101.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Quebec is providing universal access to publicly-funded schools in (an) official language of the country that’s the internationally-recognized entity, so that complies, no?

I think the generally held view in Quebec, and also of the UN and other international bodies when they've actually paid attention or been forced to (if not the view of Anglo-Quebecers and ROCers) is that Quebec goes above and beyond when it comes to English-language education, and that internal squabbles about who should have access and blablabla, is splitting hairs that we just need to work out ourselves.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Hali87

I generally agree that there's a point at which the provinces should just be allowed to be themselves when it comes to things that are under their jurisdiction. It feels like a lot of people in the ROC want to "intervene" in Quebec when it comes to these cultural Bills, but IMO it's not really anyone else's business at this point

Whereas I find it appropriate and positive that Canadians take interest in the welfare of their fellow citizens, wherever they happen to reside.