Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

I knew deniers like yourself, someone who's blind to your own backyard, but love highlighting the faults of other places, would be triggered. I never said Seattle is free of disorderliness, and instead have always maintained that loose policies have ruined lots of Anerican cities, including Seattle. The recent visit by SpongeG saw an improvement there and I was merely commenting that Vancouver also needs a stark improvement. Was expecting you to nit pick on my comments and so you truly did not let me down.

The appearance Seattle's Downtown has (mostly) improved because the authorities have, in the past few months, dismantled the camps that appeared in the parks and along the streets. (There are still a few places where there are people camping, but not nearly as many as say a year ago). Similarly here,Oppenheimer and Strathcona parks have reopened, nobody is camping in them, and there's a court hearing to remove the last campers from CRAB Park. And that single camp is all you'll see for collections of tents in the City of Vancouver. You'll find odd ones all over the city, but fewer now the weather is colder.

The visible homeless have therefore 'gone away' in Seattle's Downtown, in part because the city are starting to get concerned about the immediate economic future of the area. Amazon have pulled out of a series of Downtown leases, and other companies are downsizing as well. Vancouver's office vacancy rate in Q3 2021 is 7.8%, up from 5.8% a year earlier. Seattle's is 14.5%, up from 11% a year earlier. The reason for all the closed businesses and boarded up stores is probably that Seattle relies far more on the workers to keep them in business than Vancouver, which also has over 100,000 residents Downtown. Overall the economy seems to be recovering better too; Here, TransLink is now seeing 60% of pre-pandemic ridership. Seattle area transit systems are currently seeing less than 50%. New stores are opening on Water Street, and on Robson.

So Seattle moved the homeless camps out of the city centre, and they even housed quite a few of the people that were camping. Some accepted places in hostels, and some in the new temporary 'tiny house' clusters they've been building (we've been doing something similar with the Temporary Modular Housing we're still adding to). The program is called JustCARE, but the funding only runs to next June.

They couldn't find homes for the thousands more homeless that they have - they just moved on, or stayed in areas like Capitol Hill. So now they're back to being hidden away, under freeways, in industrial areas, (living in derelict RVs), behind abandoned buildings. So sure, it looks better. The homeless problem there is not solved though, just as ours isn't. Ours is easier to solve because we haven't got as many homeless, and we're building a lot more welfare rate housing than they are. 58 West Hastings by the Chinatown Foundation just started, and will have 120 apartments, half at welfare rate. The new Union Gospel building is very close to completion, for example. That's 135 new beds, and a new addiction program.

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by whatnext

This isn't surprising. Talking to people who work at Holts and the Bay and the theft is brazen with clothes even being stolen off mannequins:

"Results are alarming": VPD details 195 arrests during pre-Christmas shoplifting blitz
Amanda Wawryk
Dec 6 2021

One hundred and ninety-five arrests, 300+ charges, and $75,oo0 worth of merchandise recovered.

There are some alarming numbers from a pre-Christmas shoplifting enforcement blitz by Vancouver Police.

“Business owners and their staff continue to struggle with prolific and often violent thieves, who seem to think they can steal with impunity,” says Sergeant Steve Addison.

“Since November 4, a dedicated group of VPD officers has worked directly with retail staff in the downtown core to identify and apprehend shoplifters. The results are alarming.”.....

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/alarming-vancouver-police-195-arrests-pre-christmas-enforcement

The article cuts off the better cherry picked examples but The Straight lists them off.

The VPD cited the following examples in its news release:

* "A 48-year-old man walked into a cosmetics retailer near Howe and Georgia Street on December 4 and tried to steal a bottle of perfume valued at $184. When a 22-year-old staff member followed the man out of the store, the suspect turned and charged at the employee with a metal chain. The suspect fled, but was later arrested and has now been charged with theft and assault with a weapon."

* "A man with 39 prior criminal convictions tried to steal two $30 pillows from a department store on Granville Street and was arrested by VPD officers on November 19. Officers found the man in possession of a knife, metal knuckles, and padded gloves. The 28-year-old suspect later failed to attend court and is now wanted B.C.-wide."

* "A man who was already on probation for theft was caught stealing a $2,500 laptop from a computer store on West Georgia Street on November 7. VPD officers took him to jail, but he was later released from custody and told to come back to court on another day. The man, who has 69 prior criminal convictions, was re-arrested 11 days later after he tried to steal $60 in hair tongs from a downtown department store."

Addison said that 60 percent of those arrested revealed that they did not have a permanent place to sleep. They planned to sell stolen merchandise online or in the Downtown Eastside.

“It’s troubling for our officers to see the same offenders—many of whom are living with complex social needs like drug addiction, poverty, and mental illness—repeatedly getting arrested for such low-level crimes,” the sergeant stated.

-https://www.straight.com/news/vancouver-police-campaign-against-shoplifting-yields-75000-worth-of-stolen-merchandise

Remember, Catch-and-Release works. Those criminals will get the hard point soon. Just you watch.
Global meanwhile had a piece the other night on the DTES Public Market being a hot spot for fencing. I'll admit, I've gone there to buy stuff, but I'm not in the market for perfume, clothes or stereos. I'm after more junky things that are more honestly garbage picked but there is a LOT of stuff there which is hot hot hot. It reminds me of the Vancouver Flea Market around 2008 or 2009 when they started cracking down on booths selling blatently stolen stuff.

[officedweller]

Soon, stores will be putting in turnstiles (didn't Shoppers Drug Marts have them?) like Canadian Tire
- making it hard to leave the store except through a monitored exit like the cashier line.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Soon, stores will be putting in turnstiles (didn't Shoppers Drug Marts have them?) like Canadian Tire
- making it hard to leave the store except through a monitored exit like the cashier line.

I doubt those make much of a difference.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by MIPS

Remember, Catch-and-Release works. Those criminals will get the hard point soon. Just you watch.

With idiots like we have in power, it's just a matter of time that we will have shithole San Francisco level crime spree, where groups of 80 armed robbers pillage Union Square luxury stores in broad daylight and make hits on Nordstrom locations, stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of luxury merchandise. Look it up, a Louis Vuitton was robber completely bare, this hasn't been covered much outside of the local media.

Coming soon to Vancouver.

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Look it up, a Louis Vuitton was robber completely bare, this hasn't been covered much outside of the local media.

Coming soon to Vancouver.

Story checks out. Looting spree (okay, one to five businesses) in downtown SF.
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/S...quare-Louis-Vuitton-robbery-16637562.php

I feel like Vancouver won't get to that point. I still have a bit of faith in VPD stomping that level of unruliness out before it gets that out of hand. It's more how much longer can smaller stores take before insurance starts dictating what to be doing with them.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Klazu

With idiots like we have in power, it's just a matter of time that we will have shithole San Francisco level crime spree, where groups of 80 armed robbers pillage Union Square luxury stores in broad daylight and make hits on Nordstrom locations, stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of luxury merchandise. Look it up, a Louis Vuitton was robber completely bare, this hasn't been covered much outside of the local media.

Coming soon to Vancouver.

If there were looting of stores by mobs of people in the same way as in California, it would be Burnaby and other suburbs that would also be hit. That's what happened around San Francisco, and in a Los Angeles suburb. It's not just California either, similar robberies have hit two Best Buy stores in Minnesota. There don't seem to be any incidents in the past 2 weeks, and there have been some arrests made - but not many.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Soon, stores will be putting in turnstiles (didn't Shoppers Drug Marts have them?) like Canadian Tire
- making it hard to leave the store except through a monitored exit like the cashier line.

all Walmart stores, well ones I have been to in recent weeks, now have security gates installed and you cannot exit the store through the entrance gates anymore, well you can but an alarm goes off if you do it. There is also the same rails to separate entrance and exit.


sciotopost.com


source

[WarrenC12]

Saw VPD busting a shoplifter outside London drugs the other day. Saw them outside Cdn Tire last month. They are around.

These stores use marked and unmarked security guards, guaranteed.

[rofina]

I wonder how far along collectively societies will go before we stop just fighting symptoms and actually do the real work of addressing causes.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by MIPS

Story checks out. Looting spree (okay, one to five businesses) in downtown SF.
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/S...quare-Louis-Vuitton-robbery-16637562.php

I feel like Vancouver won't get to that point. I still have a bit of faith in VPD stomping that level of unruliness out before it gets that out of hand. It's more how much longer can smaller stores take before insurance starts dictating what to be doing with them.

VPD may be doing their jobs to an acceptable level, but without the teeth to truly enforce the law and book these a-holes to face ultimate justice, there will be more criminals to join in the ranks since they all know the penalties, should they be caught, are relatively light. The justice system also needs a revamp, and society should treat all criminals, no matter if they are high on drugs or are homeless, to be held responsible for what they do.

Originally Posted by rofina

I wonder how far along collectively societies will go before we stop just fighting symptoms and actually do the real work of addressing causes.

I think society has already compensated way too much already, and at the expense of its own health and well-being. Society at large should be the victim, and definitely not the yahoos and criminals.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

I doubt those make much of a difference.

Yes I constantly see idiots squeeze through the faregates at the skytrain stations, with impunity.

[Vin]

Still saying "no" to a forced cold-turkey drug addiction treatment like days yonder?

"A record loss of life:' B.C.'s coroner reports 1,782 British Columbians died from illicit drugs in the first 10 months of this year.
https://vancouversun.com/news/b-c-corone...-in-october-from-illegal-and-toxic-drugs

1,782 dead and still counting this year. It's just like the Third-World where for years the same epidemic not only remains, but has become much, much worse.

[Klazu]

Nobody wants to admit it but those deaths are keeping things at least somewhat in check. Just imagine how bad DTES and Downtown problems would otherwise be. What is astonishing is how quickly an overdose death us replaced by another junkie on our streets. Clearly to there is a big problem going on when so many people are not afraid to die on some dark street alley.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

VPD may be doing their jobs to an acceptable level, but without the teeth to truly enforce the law and book these a-holes to face ultimate justice, there will be more criminals to join in the ranks since they all know the penalties, should they be caught, are relatively light. The justice system also needs a revamp, and society should treat all criminals, no matter if they are high on drugs or are homeless, to be held responsible for what they do.

So is this still a City of Vancouver problem? They have no jurisdiction over the justice system.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Nobody wants to admit it but those deaths are keeping things at least somewhat in check. Just imagine how bad DTES and Downtown problems would otherwise be. What is astonishing is how quickly an overdose death us replaced by another junkie on our streets. Clearly to there is a big problem going on when so many people are not afraid to die on some dark street alley.

You should probably see who's dying of these toxic overdoses before spewing your vile garbage.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

You should probably see who's dying of these toxic overdoses before spewing your vile garbage.

Thanks, was going to add that on the radio this morning it's so sad that the health authorities have to remind the general public that an overdose death isn't equaling "someone on the street" or in the DTES.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

sciotopost.com

Those gates look like the one at the No Frills on Broadway near Yukon with the motion sensor.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Thanks, was going to add that on the radio this morning it's so sad that the health authorities have to remind the general public that an overdose death isn't equaling "someone on the street" or in the DTES.

Very true. And mostly not in Vancouver, or in the DTES either.

The coroner's report on deaths from illicit drugs notes "By Health Authority (HA), in 2021, the highest number of illicit drug toxicity deaths were in Fraser and Vancouver Coastal Health Authorities (602 and 494 deaths, respectively), making up 62% of all such deaths during this period." So more people died in Fraser Health (Burnaby to the Fraser Canyon), than in Coastal (a small part of which is the DTES).

"By Local Health Area (LHA), in 2021, the highest rates (of death) were in Upper Skeena, Lillooet, Merritt, North Thompson, and Enderby."

"In 2021, 83% of illicit drug toxicity deaths occurred inside (55% in private residences and 28% in other residences including social and supportive housing, SROs, shelters, and hotels and other indoor locations) and 15% occurred outside in vehicles, sidewalks, streets, parks, etc."

"No deaths have been reported at supervised consumption or drug overdose prevention sites."

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Very true. And mostly not in Vancouver, or in the DTES either.

The coroner's report on deaths from illicit drugs notes "By Health Authority (HA), in 2021, the highest number of illicit drug toxicity deaths were in Fraser and Vancouver Coastal Health Authorities (602 and 494 deaths, respectively), making up 62% of all such deaths during this period." So more people died in Fraser Health (Burnaby to the Fraser Canyon), than in Coastal (a small part of which is the DTES).

"By Local Health Area (LHA), in 2021, the highest rates (of death) were in Upper Skeena, Lillooet, Merritt, North Thompson, and Enderby."

"In 2021, 83% of illicit drug toxicity deaths occurred inside (55% in private residences and 28% in other residences including social and supportive housing, SROs, shelters, and hotels and other indoor locations) and 15% occurred outside in vehicles, sidewalks, streets, parks, etc."

"No deaths have been reported at supervised consumption or drug overdose prevention sites."

YUP! That's what I heard on the radio this morning. Appreciate it in writing so I can digest.