Electric Vehicle Charging Stations in Ottawa-Gatineau

[roger1818]

Looking at the interactive map on Ivy's website, it seems as though multiple "Park & Charge (L2)" stations in Aurora (42), Newmarket (48) and Halton Hills (45) have already been built. Closer to home, it seems as though there will also be 3 new locations (presumably L2) in Carleton Place in addition to the existing DCFC station at the OPP station, the Arena and the Library.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I've been complaining about the OnRoutes for a long time. Good to see I'm not the only one.

LOL. I know.

I think they need a three-way deal with Ivy Charging (on behalf of OPG and Hydro One), Arjun Infrastructure and Canadian Tire, so that Canadian Tire doesn't feel threatened by the loss of revenue, silly as the idea is. The rumoured rents that OnRoute was asking from Tesla were also pretty ridiculous. Apparently, $20k per year. There's no way to recover that from charging.

Like it or not, they are a for profit company and want to maximize profit. In the short term, you are right, but eventually charging will be very profitable, especially in key locations like ONroute centres. By waiting they can make more in the long run.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Like it or not, they are a for profit company and want to maximize profit. In the short term, you are right, but eventually charging will be very profitable, especially in key locations like ONroute centres. By waiting they can make more in the long run.

I'm not even sure there's a business case at $20k per spot in the future. That's something a charging company would have to pay above all their expenses. $55/day. Even assuming a very optimistic 11 hrs of usage per day, that works out to 8¢/min of charging for just rent.

I believe the way to go about this is probably some kind of grand bargain. Ivy Charging gets some kind of exclusivity, which lets Hydro One justify the infrastructure investments to increase service. The OnRoutes get free power. Canadian Tire gets a cut of net profit from the OnRoutes for remainder of their exclusive period. Such a deal might even build the business case to put up solar canopies on the giant lots they have.

All the current futzing around with chargers works well at our pathetically low adoption levels. But watching the explosive growth in adoption in Europe and the coming ramp from government targets and mandates (like 50% of sales by 2030 in the US), charging solutions need to be much more scalable and plan for scale now. Two EV chargers in Carleton Place ain't going to cut it 5 years from now, let alone a decade from now.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I'm not even sure there's a business case at $20k per spot in the future. That's something a charging company would have to pay above all their expenses. $55/day. Even assuming a very optimistic 11 hrs of usage per day, that works out to 8¢/min of charging for just rent.

Was that $20k per charger, per location, or for access to all locations? Someone like Tesla would likely put in 10 or 20 Superchargers at each ONroute location, so that changes the math significantly.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Looking at the interactive map on Ivy's website, it seems as though multiple "Park & Charge (L2)" stations in Aurora (42), Newmarket (48) and Halton Hills (45) have already been built. Closer to home, it seems as though there will also be 3 new locations (presumably L2) in Carleton Place in addition to the existing DCFC station at the OPP station, the Arena and the Library.

One other thing, I noticed Ivy now has an address set for one of the Ottawa locations (3910 Innes Rd in Orleans). This is the address of the Canadian Tire within SmartCentres Orleans I (3900 Innes Road). Has anyone seen any signs of construction yet?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Was that $20k per charger, per location, or for access to all locations? Someone like Tesla would likely put in 10 or 20 Superchargers at each ONroute location, so that changes the math significantly.

From what I recall, they wanted $20k per parking spot in rent annually. It's pretty likely, they thought they could take Tesla for a ride, not realizing that Tesla would just build around them.

No idea if it was Canadian Tire being obstructionist though, or HMShost or both. If they keep this up though, I hope we see somebody build private service centres at some major exits like what Gridserve did in the UK.

I will also never understand why Canadian Tire never invested in building a nationwide charging network of its own. It would help them be more relevant in the 21st century. Instead, they seem to be offering space to several different networks. It doesn't seem to be a coherent strategy.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by roger1818

One other thing, I noticed Ivy now has an address set for one of the Ottawa locations (3910 Innes Rd in Orleans). This is the address of the Canadian Tire within SmartCentres Orleans I (3900 Innes Road). Has anyone seen any signs of construction yet?

I believe the other one will be at Home Depot on Cyrville. They seem to have a few locations line up with Home Depot.

[Truenorth00]

All I can say is, "Finally...."

Ivy, ONroute and Canadian Tire put a big charge into road trips

TORONTO, Dec. 1, 2021 /CNW/ - Electric vehicle (EV) drivers will soon be able to charge at all ONroute locations along the province's busiest highways, thanks to an agreement between Ivy Charging Network and ONroute and its partners, Canadian Tire Corporation (CTC) and the Ministry of Transportation (MTO).

Ivy's Charge & Go level 3 fast-charger locations will be open at 17 ONroute locations along Highways 401 and 400 in time for summer 2022, with another three ONroute locations opening before the end of 2022. Each of Ivy's Charge & Go level 3 fast-chargers at ONroute locations will support the charging of all current models of electric vehicles including charging ports for Tesla drivers.

....

Quick Facts

• Ivy Charging Network is installing 69 level 3 fast-chargers across all ONroute locations, with the possibility of further expansion. Each location will have between two and four chargers to serve EV drivers.
  
• Ivy's fast-chargers will be operational at 20 ONroute stations by the end of 2022. Fast-chargers at the remaining three ONroute stations will be operational in 2023/2025.
  
• Ivy's ONroute Charge & Go locations will offer charging speeds of up-to 150 kWs.
• Ivy's Charge & Go fast-charger network will be Ontario's largest and most connected, offering level 3 fast-chargers, delivering up to 100 km charge in 20 minutes or less.
  
• Ivy's Charge & Go network currently has 28 locations and expects to have over 60 locations with 160 fast-chargers by the end of 2022.

....

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/iv...ig-charge-into-road-trips-819883411.html

I have argued for the better part of a year that there should be a three way deal between Ivy, OnRoute and Canadian Tire. Happy to see it happen. And on a somewhat reasonable timeline. Wish it was a more ambitious, with more and higher rated chargers and solar canopies and such. But this is still a really solid start.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I have argued for the better part of a year that there should be a three way deal between Ivy, OnRoute and Canadian Tire. Happy to see it happen. And on a somewhat reasonable timeline. Wish it was a more ambitious, with more and higher rated chargers and solar canopies and such. But this is still a really solid start.

150kW isn't all that bad. The quoted "100 km charge in 20 minutes or less" is very pessimistic. Even if you assume a very low 4 km/kWh (most cars can do much better than that), and the vehicle's charging curve allows it to sustain that 150kW for 10 minutes, that is 100 km in that 10 minutes. In the amount of time it takes to go to the washroom and get a snack, you should easily be able to get enough of a charge to get you to your next bio break.

I do agree that they should be more ambitious as to the number of chargers at each location, but at least they say that they are building in capacity for future expansion (my guess is 8 of the 23 locations will have 2 chargers, 7 will have 3 and 8 will have 4, to reach that total of 69 chargers).

[SkeggsEggs]

The Cambridge OnRoute westbound had what looks to be 4 charging spots being installed when I stopped this weekend.

I didn't notice anything at the Mallorytown OnRoute eastbound on the way back to Ottawa.

Looked to be only chargers, no canopy or anything fancy.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by roger1818

150kW isn't all that bad. The quoted "100 km charge in 20 minutes or less" is very pessimistic. Even if you assume a very low 4 km/kWh (most cars can do much better than that), and the vehicle's charging curve allows it to sustain that 150kW for 10 minutes, that is 100 km in that 10 minutes. In the amount of time it takes to go to the washroom and get a snack, you should easily be able to get enough of a charge to get you to your next bio break.

I sort of like what some charging networks are doing where they offer a handful of higher powered chargers (350 kW) at a higher price, for those who have vehicles that are capable and willing to pay. Electrify Canada does this.

I am thinking of the future where you have somebody in an electric pickup, towing something and needs to get in over 120 kWh. That guy is going to be sitting there for an hour.

Hopefully they get to that point eventually.

[CanadaGoose]

Ivy, ONroute and Canadian Tire put a big charge into road trips.
Buckle your seat belts because Ivy is coming to an ONroute near you! Electric vehicle (EV) drivers will soon be able to charge at all ONroute locations along the province’s busiest highways, thanks to an agreement between Ivy Charging Network and ONroute and its partners, Canadian Tire Corporation (CTC) and the Ministry of Transportation (MTO).

Ivy’s Charge & Go level 3 fast-charger locations will be open at 17 ONroute locations along Highways 401 and 400 in time for summer 2022, with another three ONroute locations opening before the end of 2022. Each of Ivy’s ONroute Charge & Go level 3 fast-charger locations will support the charging of all current models of electric vehicles including charging ports for Tesla drivers!

Quick facts
Ivy Charging Network is installing 69 level 3 fast-chargers across all ONroute locations, with the possibility of further expansion.
Each location will have between two and four chargers to serve EV drivers.
Ivy’s fast-chargers will be operational at 20 ONroute stations by the end of 2022. Fast-chargers at the remaining three ONroute stations will be operational in 2023/2025.
Ivy’s ONroute Charge & Go locations will offer charging speeds of up-to 150 kWs at a price of $0.30 a minute.
Ivy’s Charge & Go fast-charger network will be Ontario’s largest and most connected, delivering EV drivers up to 100 km of charge in 20 minutes or less.
Ivy’s Charge & Go network currently has 28 locations and expects to have over 60 locations with 160 fast-chargers by the end of 2022.
This partnership is part of CTC’s ongoing expansion of EV charging infrastructure across Canada.

Construction schedule
Check back here for ongoing construction updates including anticipated location opening dates.
Site Estimated Go-Live
Napanee Jan – 2022
Odessa Jan – 2022
Mallorytown N Jan – 2022
Mallorytown S Jan – 2022
Trenton N Jan – 2022
Trenton S Feb – 2022
Port Hope Feb – 2022
Dutton Jan – 2022
West Lorne Jan – 2022
Tilbury N Jan – 2022
Tilbury S Jan – 2022
Woodstock Jan – 2022
Cambridge S Feb – 2022
Cambridge N Feb – 2022
Innisfil Mar – 2022
King City Fall 2022
Barrie Fall 2022
Ingleside Feb – 2022
Morrisburg Feb – 2022
Bainsville Feb – 2022

https://ivycharge.com/ONroute/


Turns out they have been under construction the whole time and will show up soon.

Ill take some photos since I am doing a trip along the 401 this weekend.

[SidetrackedSue]

Originally Posted by SkeggsEggs

The Cambridge OnRoute westbound had what looks to be 4 charging spots being installed when I stopped this weekend.

I've read it's two Level 3 and two Level 2 chargers in each place.

I'll not likely be using them.

On our Maritimes road trip we were only using Superchargers along the way but there were often Superchargers, J1772, and a Level 3 in the parking lots so mixing and matching is common along that part of the TransCanada.

[Truenorth00]

My next gripe after OnRoutes not having chargers is the lack of OnRoutes on the 417 between Ottawa and Montreal. That lame tourist information centre at the border needs to be a proper OnRoute. And they need an eastbound OnRoute east of Casselman. Also, I wish the OnRoutes were more like this:

• Video Link

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I sort of like what some charging networks are doing where they offer a handful of higher powered chargers (350 kW) at a higher price, for those who have vehicles that are capable and willing to pay. Electrify Canada does this.

I am thinking of the future where you have somebody in an electric pickup, towing something and needs to get in over 120 kWh. That guy is going to be sitting there for an hour.

Hopefully they get to that point eventually.

Given that higher powered chargers cost more to install, installing them would likely mean installing fewer chargers overall. I don't know what the charging curve of the F150 Lightning, the R1T or Cybertruck will look like, but looking at the curve for a Model 3, it drops below 150kW once the battery is above about 25-35% SOC. Once EVs get better at charging at higher rates for longer, adding higher powered chargers makes sense.

Electrify Canada is a special case. They are receiving a huge influx of cash from VW until 2028. After that, that funding stream will dry up, so they need to do more future proofing than someone like Ivy, who will have a more stable funding stream.


By Tom Moloughney of InsideEVs

Originally Posted by SidetrackedSue

I've read it's two Level 3 and two Level 2 chargers in each place.

That seems odd to me. While public Level 2 chargers have their uses, I am not sure who (other than employees) would use them at ONroute locations. Maybe those with PHEVs, but they wouldn't get much battery range in the short time they are there (especially with highway driving). Then again, they are cheap to install (relatively speaking)

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Given that higher powered chargers cost more to install, installing them would likely mean installing fewer chargers overall. I don't know what the charging curve of the F150 Lightning, the R1T or Cybertruck will look like, but looking at the curve for a Model 3, it drops below 150kW once the battery is above about 25-35% SOC. Once EVs get better at charging at higher rates for longer, adding higher powered chargers makes sense.

800V architecture allows higher charge rates. As for example on the Porsche. Not sure if the Lightning has it to be honest. But I do think at some point, most vehicles will have that. And larger vehicles in particular will need those charge rates.

Originally Posted by roger1818

Electrify Canada is a special case. They are receiving a huge influx of cash from VW until 2028. After that, that funding stream will dry up, so they need to do more future proofing than someone like Ivy, who will have a more stable funding stream.

I don't think it's necessary to make every charger 350 kW capable. Just have one at every location beside the pull-through spot for trucks with trailers. Heck, that makes a lot more sense at OnRoutes, then it does at Electrify Canada's locations in Canadian Tire parking lots.

[CanadaGoose]

https://www.lesoleil.com/2021/12/01/chan...ctrique-a2799f43847bf3aec82f732b351b15b5

New pricing coming to circuit électrique. You will be charged more if you charge a higher speed.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by CanadaGoose

https://www.lesoleil.com/2021/12/01/chan...ctrique-a2799f43847bf3aec82f732b351b15b5

New pricing coming to circuit électrique. You will be charged more if you charge a higher speed.

Bizarre that they had the same rate for 50, 100 and 150 kW chargers to begin with.....

[SidetrackedSue]

Originally Posted by roger1818

That seems odd to me. While public Level 2 chargers have their uses, I am not sure who (other than employees) would use them at ONroute locations. Maybe those with PHEVs, but they wouldn't get much battery range in the short time they are there (especially with highway driving). Then again, they are cheap to install (relatively speaking)

As a Tesla owner, I could see me using one if the Superchargers are out in Kingston (I hear they are slow and unreliable.) It would be preferable to a tow to the nearest SC.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by SidetrackedSue

As a Tesla owner, I could see me using one if the Superchargers are out in Kingston (I hear they are slow and unreliable.) It would be preferable to a tow to the nearest SC.

Why would you not just use the fast charger?