Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[Kitchissippi]

I would think that running a train on a dedicated ROW is less demanding than a tram on a street, since stopping and starting usually presents more challenges than staying in motion. I’m not really buying the argument that we’re stretching the capabilities of the vehicle, more like the capabilities of the train haven’t lived up to standard because of poor engineering, design and manufacturing. So, yeah, they’re lemons. We shouldn’t be purchasing more of these without guarantees that the new ones will be significantly better, otherwise shop around for alternatives.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Can you explain why the Skytrain isn't reporting issues? They have been fully automated from the start. This isn't new technology. Why not blame the humans involved? Why not blame shoddy workmanship? The technology is proven. Those Boeing crashes were all human error to a new system, not the system in error.

Skytrain did have a bunch of issues when it was first deployed in the late 80’s (I remember lots of complaints about squeezing wheels on corners for one). Maybe not as many as the O-train has, but to suggest that it never has any issues is not true. They have had a lot more time to work out the kinks.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by thewave46

They have been.

Apparently 'proven technology' and 'good maintenance' were not part of Alstom's process for the Confederation Line.

It's more frustrating to me as I've seen repeated examples of 'This should work properly because it's proven that we can do this reliably' in many modern facets of life and yet somehow end up with stuff that doesn't work.

The problem is, no one wants to admit they made a mistake. No one wants to say that there is a problem unless it can be placed on something other than shoddy work.

Originally Posted by roger1818

Skytrain did have a bunch of issues when it was first deployed in the late 80’s (I remember lots of complaints about squeezing wheels on corners for one). Maybe not as many as the O-train has, but to suggest that it never has any issues is not true. They have had a lot more time to work out the kinks.

How many derailments in their first 5 years?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I would think that running a train on a dedicated ROW is less demanding than a tram on a street, since stopping and starting usually presents more challenges than staying in motion. I’m not really buying the argument that we’re stretching the capabilities of the vehicle, more like the capabilities of the train haven’t lived up to standard because of poor engineering, design and manufacturing. So, yeah, they’re lemons. We shouldn’t be purchasing more of these without guarantees that the new ones will be significantly better, otherwise shop around for alternatives.

Yes and no. Calling it a lemon is still a tad premature. Though, getting closer....

I wonder, though if these LRVs are facing issues because they are running at higher speeds and frequencies than normally intended for a tram. It's not like trams regularly hit 70 kph when running on the street.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Yes and no. Calling it a lemon is still a tad premature. Though, getting closer....

I wonder, though if these LRVs are facing issues because they are running at higher speeds and frequencies than normally intended for a tram. It's not like trams regularly hit 70 kph when running on the street.

The Citadis Spirit is Tram-like but it's specifically designed as a hybrid vehicle designed for both street operations and high speed metro/suburban light rail. It's rated up to 105 km/h. The door and electrical issues had nothing to do with speeds. The wheel and axle issues are the big problem here. Considering the rated speed the vehicles should be able to handle the Confederation Line without issue. I blame the wheel and axle issues on the fact that we are the launch customer of a new model and bugs will inevitably occur in any new model. I just hope they can iron them out soon.

[Kitchissippi]

Proper engineering should figure out appropriate margins from points of failure. If the Citadis Spirit is rated at 105 kph it should capable of even going at least +10%. The trains also don’t couple/uncouple easily as promised, to the point that they’ve given up on this feature that was supposed to save energy and wear and tear..

Lemon : something (such as an automobile) that is unsatisfactory or defective. The definition seems to fit the current situation. There’s nothing that says lemons can’t be fixed

[lrt's friend]

My understanding, when a car is considered a lemon, it usually has a myriad of problems that never seem to get fixed properly. Or, one problem leads to another and another and so on.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

My understanding, when a car is considered a lemon, it usually has a myriad of problems that never seem to get fixed properly. Or, one problem leads to another and another and so on.

I think this line would qualify for being called a lemon then.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I have several friends who work for the federal government. Some are pretty high up. They have been told not to expect a physical office in a building going forward. Since Ottawa is a big government town, I don't see how what you say would be true.

It is (going to prove to be true) because in almost every other society remotely comparable to Canada, once people were given the opportunity to go back to working at work, they went to work at work.

And also because private-sector employers have noticed the productivity impact. The public sector is a little slow.

The death of the office is greatly, greatly exaggerated.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

The death of the office is greatly, greatly exaggerated.

Perhaps.

But our transit systems (in North America) aren't so much designed around getting commuters to work, at they are designed around specifically getting commuters to work at specific travel peaks. Our system might look different if it's not sized around peak travel to the core.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

It is (going to prove to be true) because in almost every other society remotely comparable to Canada, once people were given the opportunity to go back to working at work, they went to work at work.

And also because private-sector employers have noticed the productivity impact. The public sector is a little slow.

The death of the office is greatly, greatly exaggerated.

If what you are saying is to be believed, we need to expect a massive construction boom caused by the shear number of government workers who, if were told to work in an office, would have no spot for them. Remember, the government has hired more people to deal with backlogs in many ministries. Those people never had an office space to begin with.

If anything, the government can use carbon targets as an excuse to keep them home. Anyone who thinks the government cars about productivity has never dealt with the government.

[Nowhere]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

It is (going to prove to be true) because in almost every other society remotely comparable to Canada, once people were given the opportunity to go back to working at work, they went to work at work.

And also because private-sector employers have noticed the productivity impact. The public sector is a little slow.

The death of the office is greatly, greatly exaggerated.

Transport Canada already announced that they're permanently switching to remote working, so I wouldn't be surprised if other government departments follow.

If people end up working 2-3 days a week at the office, they're probably not going to bother to buy a monthly transit pass and they might simply end up driving to downtown for these 2-3 days with the extra parking now available because of remote working.

No, the office will not die entirely, but OC Transpo needs to find a new business model than 9-5 downtown office jobs workers.

[DarthVader_1961]

Originally Posted by Nowhere

Transport Canada already announced that they're permanently switching to remote working, so I wouldn't be surprised if other government departments follow.

If people end up working 2-3 days a week at the office, they're probably not going to bother to buy a monthly transit pass and they might simply end up driving to downtown for these 2-3 days with the extra parking now available because of remote working.

No, the office will not die entirely, but OC Transpo needs to find a new business model than 9-5 downtown office jobs workers.

I worked at the CRA offices in bells corners.. we cleaned out our offices in August. We are now working from home permanently…. The buildings we cleared out will be converted to temporary offices and meeting rooms

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Nowhere

Transport Canada already announced that they're permanently switching to remote working, so I wouldn't be surprised if other government departments follow.

If people end up working 2-3 days a week at the office, they're probably not going to bother to buy a monthly transit pass and they might simply end up driving to downtown for these 2-3 days with the extra parking now available because of remote working.

No, the office will not die entirely, but OC Transpo needs to find a new business model than 9-5 downtown office jobs workers.

I dunno if commuting by transit to the core disappears for 2-3 days per week. Parking is still expensive. And driving in the core is annoying. And people are far less likely to mind putting up with a bus, if the bus is less crowded and only need to do so a few times per week. Also, in the long run, this provides a great excuse to redevelop every parking lot in the downtown core. It was heading that way. But now that parking generates less revenue, the push is likely to be even stronger.

I do agree though, that the system was optimized for peak travel to the core. And going forward, OC Transpo needs to become a much more non-commuter system, focusing on local transport. Higher bus frequencies. And a lot less rail expansion. Stage 3 will need to be scaled back to Fallowfield and Terry Fox, focused on cutting bus mileage through the greenbelt. Beyond that, all capital needs to be focused on improving local bus services.

Originally Posted by DarthVader_1961

I worked at the CRA offices in bells corners.. we cleaned out our offices in August. We are now working from home permanently…. The buildings we cleared out will be converted to temporary offices and meeting rooms

There's also the possibility of a different posture. For example, the feds could setup coworking spaces throughout the city for all federal employees. Less travel. Book as needed. This way departmental offices and meeting rooms are kept strictly for departmental needs. Will add, this is a good opportunity for the federal government to update its ridiculously outdated identification and key card infrastructure to something closer to FIPS 201 or CAC in the US, combining and ID, PKI card and two factor authentication for facility access.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Nowhere

If people end up working 2-3 days a week at the office, they're probably not going to bother to buy a monthly transit pass and they might simply end up driving to downtown for these 2-3 days with the extra parking now available because of remote working.

I agree they won't buy a monthly transit pass if they are working 2-3 (or even 4) days a week, but equally I don't think they will buy an even more expensive monthly parking pass either. Given that, by looking at Parkopedia, downtown parking is still expensive over 1½ years after pandemic WFH started, I don't see downtown parking becoming cheap any time soon. While some may make the switch to driving, I think most will still take the bus, but will switch to using their Presto e-Purse rather than buying a monthly pass.

Originally Posted by Nowhere

No, the office will not die entirely, but OC Transpo needs to find a new business model than 9-5 downtown office jobs workers.

WFH or not, OC Transpo needs to do a better job of supporting those who aren't using transit to go downtown for work.

[lrt's friend]

WFH or not, OC Transpo needs to do a better job of supporting those who aren't using transit to go downtown for work.

I totally agree, but do we see any action on this front? I don't think so. We need a totally re-imagined transit system. Not every route needs to take us only to the Confederation Line. There needs to be more parallel routes.

We seem so committed to a Confederation Line and consequently a downtown focus that we can't see how transportation need has changed. This was changing long before Line 1 opened but the pandemic has accelerated these changes. OC Transpo has long focused on the public service as a cash cow and mostly ignored everybody else. It is time for this to change.

We need to see new routes, better frequency including better frequency over longer hours. Other cities have succeeded in attracting new ridership this way. The city has lost a lot when it got so focused on capacity transit planning over the last 10 years and forgot the need for innovation. The Confederation Line was the focus and the innovation but that was never going to be enough. Line 1 became the tail wagging the dog, so we forgot the need to look at the transit network as a whole and how people were to get around the city when Line 1 was not going to be the destination. The end result is longer trip times for non-downtown trips and too many transfers.

[Uhuniau]

Just sayin'.... "permanent" isn't necessarily permanent.

[DarthVader_1961]

Noticed that the coffee shop at Hurdman still has not opened… any idea what’s wrong?

[ponyboycurtis]

Originally Posted by DarthVader_1961

Noticed that the coffee shop at Hurdman still has not opened… any idea what’s wrong?

Good question... I feel like every time I pass through Rideau the shop there is also closed.

General incompetence and buffonery?

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by DarthVader_1961

Noticed that the coffee shop at Hurdman still has not opened… any idea what’s wrong?

I doubt they're in any rush to open given the state of transit ridership. Same with Tunney's.

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

Good question... I feel like every time I pass through Rideau the shop there is also closed.

General incompetence and buffonery?

They have regular hours, when are you usually passing through..?
M-F: 7-6
S: 8-5
S:10-4

I've gotten several coffees there over the last few weeks.