Official Fredericton, NB projects thread

[Freddypop]

I can confirm that numerous trees on the NE corner of Brookside and Ring have been shredded during the past few days and land has been staked. Obvious they are getting ready for the round-about.

[OliverD]

About time that roundabout gets built.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by Pugsley

What a waste of a development and key site in the city. This surge of inbound and need to build build build is being done recklessly. This area has the opportunity to be a second downtown with retail, offices, and residential. Instead, a beautiful anchor like the old trains station is being surrounded by yet another multi-building apartment complex. I think the city should reject it and make the developer scale back the surface parking and make it a more pedestrian-friendly mixed-use development....with ample retail and connectivity to the surrounding streetscapes.

In theory I agree with you, but I'm not sure that's a realistic plan. Office space isn't exactly in demand right now (though that could change). Adding 11,000 sq ft of retail space to this area is a pretty big deal on its own.

I think a "second downtown" will be what ends up getting built at the NBEX grounds. It's dubious whether we have the critical mass to support smaller scale commercial nodes in both locations.

One thing that would have been nice to see is some townhouses. I would add a few storeys to buildings B and C and have smaller footprints, and then connect the two with a handful of townhouses or something along those lines. Could probably trade some of the surface parking for more townhouses too.

As an aside, one thing that looks interesting about this development is that it appears all three buildings will share a single underground parking garage. Unless there are ramps inside the building, the underground portion will only be accessible from buildings A and C.

[KnoxfordGuy]

Anyone know why all the trees were cut around the old Daily Gleaner building on Prospect? It is very stark.

[RealEstateGuy]

Originally Posted by KnoxfordGuy

Anyone know why all the trees were cut around the old Daily Gleaner building on Prospect? It is very stark.

They were getting tired of the graffiti and they are getting ready for plans which will see them tear down the building in the next 2-3 years. The plan is to build a large strip mall on the property from my understanding.

[Freddypop]

Originally Posted by RealEstateGuy

They were getting tired of the graffiti and they are getting ready for plans which will see them tear down the building in the next 2-3 years. The plan is to build a large strip mall on the property from my understanding.

I believe that property is owned by Bella Properties. The same owner as the soon-to-be-developed former Risteen Building property.

[RealEstateGuy]

Originally Posted by Freddypop

I believe that property is owned by Bella Properties. The same owner as the soon-to-be-developed former Risteen Building property.

Yes, I believe they will break ground on Queen Street property after they have completed the Apartment building on Beaverbrook and another one on Forest Hill Road from what I gather. The tenants in the old gleaner building are on shorter-term leases 1-2 years so that it can be vacated when it is torn down.

[Freddypop]

Fredericton to become 2nd largest city in NB

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/fredericton-saint-john-second-biggest-1.6268716

[Taeolas]

"Entity 69". *snicker*

I'm sure SOMEONE must've noticed that and done that on purpose.

It is surprising to see Freddy pass SJ like that; but it makes sense. Maybe SJ could've been smashed together a bit more, but IIRC SJ has had some bigger amalgamations in the past that it's still chewing through.

[NBNYer]

Originally Posted by Freddypop

Fredericton to become 2nd largest city in NB

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/fredericton-saint-john-second-biggest-1.6268716

This article refers to 2021 population estimates from StatCan. Has anyone found a link to this?

[MonctonRad]

It should be note that Robert Jones is concentrating on municipal population numbers, and not CMA populations. All things being equal, I expect the SJ CMA to stay ahead of the Freddy CMA for some time, but, eventually, I fully expect Freddy to supersede SJ in the CMA count too - its just inevitable.

Freddy has momentum from being the capital, and the home to two universities, and is on the TCH (which is a big problem for SJ). In addition, at some point, I expect Oromocto to be incorporated into the Freddy CMA which will give the CMA population a big kick. There is no available large population source to give SJ such a kick.

Moncton will eventually get a kick from Shediac. Freddy will get an eventual kick from Oromocto. SJ is out of luck.........

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

and is on the TCH (which is a big problem for SJ)

To the point that it suppresses population growth?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by OliverD

To the point that it suppresses population growth?

I would view it rather that being on the TCH enhances population growth in Fredericton and Moncton.

SJ of course has it's own strengths (especially the port). The city just has to find ways to maximize it's potential.

[Taeolas]

IMO, SJ should really be pushing for a Twinned highway link to Freddy (or rather to the TCH). Sure it's twinned to Moncton, but that goes the wrong way. For Truck traffic from the port of Saint John to get to the rest of Canada, it has a 2-lane highway to reach the main artery to the rest of Canada. And twinning Route 7 is something SJ might finally convince the province to do. (And yes, I know we shouldn't really encourage truck traffic and prefer train traffic for mass cargo transport over land; but trucking is still a thing and will always be a thing, so we shouldn't hinder it unnecessarily)

In a similar vein, SJ should be trying to get Route 9 twinned in Maine to get a proper transport route to I-95 direct to the city. Since that's all in Maine, there isn't really much SJ can do about that.

As for the cities overall, there will always be a size ranking since that's what we do. But ultimately all 3 cities are probably going to remain similarly sized (Especially Freddy and SJ)

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

IMO, SJ should really be pushing for a Twinned highway link to Freddy (or rather to the TCH). Sure it's twinned to Moncton, but that goes the wrong way. For Truck traffic from the port of Saint John to get to the rest of Canada, it has a 2-lane highway to reach the main artery to the rest of Canada. And twinning Route 7 is something SJ might finally convince the province to do. (And yes, I know we shouldn't really encourage truck traffic and prefer train traffic for mass cargo transport over land; but trucking is still a thing and will always be a thing, so we shouldn't hinder it unnecessarily)

In a similar vein, SJ should be trying to get Route 9 twinned in Maine to get a proper transport route to I-95 direct to the city. Since that's all in Maine, there isn't really much SJ can do about that.

As for the cities overall, there will always be a size ranking since that's what we do. But ultimately all 3 cities are probably going to remain similarly sized (Especially Freddy and SJ)

Honestly, the traffic doesn't justify it. Finish twinning everything from Crane Mountain to the Welsford Bypass (27KM total with much of it already twinned), add a third lane with alternating passing the whole way through CFB Gagetown, and Saint John would be golden.

EDIT: I checked and it's 18 un-twinned KM from Welsford to Crane Mountain. Plus that horrible two lane stretch of the Martinon Bypass that's only 500m long but seems to produce a near accident every time I drive past.

Technically NB does have a 'proper' connection to I-95, via Route 95 in Woodstock. We would literally have to pay Maine to improve the Airport Road, let alone build a true highway parallel to it. Any east-west interstate construction in New England would need megabucks from DC.

[JHikka]

Great that Freddy is larger for the wikipedia table sorting gang but it doesn't really make it any physically larger than SJ on the ground.

Originally Posted by Taeolas

IMO, SJ should really be pushing for a Twinned highway link to Freddy (or rather to the TCH).

Traffic counts don't call for it.

Originally Posted by Taeolas

In a similar vein, SJ should be trying to get Route 9 twinned in Maine to get a proper transport route to I-95 direct to the city. Since that's all in Maine, there isn't really much SJ can do about that.

Traffic counts likely don't call for it.

I really wish we'd get past this notion that building more highways leads to more growth in our cities. How long has Highway 1 been built through Charlotte County? Has St. Stephen grown in that time into a sprawling metropolis? St. George? They're bypasses for smaller towns and quicker routes for tourists, and if anything encourage more suburban sprawl for cities by making it easier for people to live further away.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

It should be note that Robert Jones is concentrating on municipal population numbers, and not CMA populations.

Jones wouldn't exclude certain numbers just to maintain a narrative, would he?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Jones wouldn't exclude certain numbers just to maintain a narrative, would he?

Well, he does have a tendency of trying to provoke internecine rivalries.........

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Well, he does have a tendency of trying to provoke internecine rivalries.........

Saint John could add 100K people overnight and Jones would write an article like, 'Saint John unprepared for growth'.

It's always negative no matter the story. Yawn.

[Taeolas]

I'm not really talking about the traffic counts though; I'm talking about the cargo counts.

We want the Port of SJ to keep growing and getting traffic since that is one of Saint John's main growth vectors (along with SJ's industrial character in general). While much of that traffic is train based, a lot of it is Transport truck based. And the only proper highway connections it has go in the wrong direction (going east to Moncton; not so good when you want traffic from northern NB, the valley and the rest of Canada).

Route 7 is "good enough" for now to handle cargo traffic coming from the TCH in general. But I'm sure SJ and the province are constantly watching the numbers, and wondering if (or when) the potential of an improved trucking route linking SJ more directly to the TCH and the rest of Canada will make the twinning feasible.

As for connecting to I-95, yes we have the connection at Woodstock, but that doesn't help Saint John Port supplying the US market (not that it is targeting it too much since Portland, Boston and NYC and similar handle things). But we did twin Route 1 all the way to the border under the anticipation of having it continued to I-95. (a dream that went unfulfilled). Ultimately there isn't much SJ or NB or Canada can do about that, other than make the route as appealing as possible and let companies in the US push Maine to improve conditions. (And considering the HydroQuebec route that was recently kiboshed, that sort of pressure doesn't seem effective any more if it ever was)

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

I'm not really talking about the traffic counts though; I'm talking about the cargo counts.

We want the Port of SJ to keep growing and getting traffic since that is one of Saint John's main growth vectors (along with SJ's industrial character in general). While much of that traffic is train based, a lot of it is Transport truck based. And the only proper highway connections it has go in the wrong direction (going east to Moncton; not so good when you want traffic from northern NB, the valley and the rest of Canada).

Cargo counts are included in general AADT numbers that are retrieved from a reluctant DoT. Again, we already built a highway for our heavy industry to the US border and it wasn't reciprocated on the other side, and there doesn't seem to be enough of it going north on the highway to warrant highway expansion at this time.

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Route 7 is "good enough" for now to handle cargo traffic coming from the TCH in general. But I'm sure SJ and the province are constantly watching the numbers, and wondering if (or when) the potential of an improved trucking route linking SJ more directly to the TCH and the rest of Canada will make the twinning feasible.

This seems more like a mental fascination than one derived from actual physical need. Similar to how some people think about a fully-twinned TCH across Canada I don't see the practical need for it outside of simply being able to say it exists.