Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[ponyboycurtis]

So we have now had 3 incidents since Friday? A stuck train somewhere... EB Lees platform closed and now this tonight... am I missing any?

This is going from bad to worse. After hearing some of the reports about maintenance I started feeling a little bit better about the situation. Those items sounded fixable over time. I don't know what to think anymore.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

So we have now had 3 incidents since Friday? A stuck train somewhere... EB Lees platform closed and now this tonight... am I missing any?

This is going from bad to worse. After hearing some of the reports about maintenance I started feeling a little bit better about the situation. Those items sounded fixable over time. I don't know what to think anymore.

Almost sounds like they need to recertify the line again.

[daud]

Is there something fundamentally wrong with this line?

The combination of track/curves/trains? The 2 curves Rideau and Hurdman seem to be point zero for a lot of issues.

Shoddy maintenance and all the other new train bugs aside, is there a serious flaw in railway design/engineering?

This is just not normal.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by daud

Is there something fundamentally wrong with this line?

The combination of track/curves/trains? The 2 curves Rideau and Hurdman seem to be point zero for a lot of issues.

Shoddy maintenance and all the other new train bugs aside, is there a serious flaw in railway design/engineering?

This is just not normal.

The CEO of TRA is now on the record stating that no, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the line.

There is no aspect of it that strikes me as being inherently defective or deficient.
[...]in terms of the engineering, the design, the layout, all the aspects of it. Whether it's the customer-facing aspects or the parts that nobody sees, there is nothing inherently deficient and there's nothing that can't be fixed.

—Kenneth Korach, CEO of TRA.
(From Wednesday's Transit Commission meeting)

So, take that for what you will.

[daud]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

The CEO of TRA is now on the record stating that no, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the line.


—Kenneth Korach, CEO of TRA.
(From Wednesday's Transit Commission meeting)

So, take that for what you will.

His comments really gave me a glimmer of hope:

Citizen commissioner Anthony Carricato asked TRA experts if the city bought a lemon, prompting TRA CEO Ken Korach to reply, “It is not a lemon,” and “You’ve got a great system.”

Dan Hauber, a TRA vice-president, said the Confederation Line was “really an excellent system.”

But still the problems persist-they almost seem to arise immediately after some official says something definitively good about our system.

I really do hope they are right in what they are seeing.

[DTcrawler]

I’m no expert but here’s my take. The choice of rolling stock simply isn’t suited for the job. We hear talks about maintenance activities piling up faster than RTM can action them, to the point where some crucial activities are not performed during the nightly closures. To me, that’s not normal. RTM’s hands shouldn’t be so full that every night is a full sprint to put out fires. I think they are basically tasked with trying to pick up the slack for a tram that wants to be a metro.

Yesterday, while riding Line 1 (my one trip out of three in which my train wasn’t held), I noticed the wheels were again causing issues. It was an especially bumpy ride and there was a droning noise that increased in frequency as we sped up, likely indicating an inconsistency on the wheel(s). We hear that RTM has started profiling the wheels to ensure they’re round, so why is this still happening? I thought to myself, somewhere down the road, this is going to result in a stopped train.

[DTcrawler]

Apart from issues with Line 1 itself, one thing I can’t excuse it OC Transpo’s terrible comms. For one of the two stoppages I experienced yesterday, OC Transpo didn’t post an update for almost 40 minutes, as Sue mentioned. Live updates aside, I shouldn’t have to go searching on my phone about why I’m stuck on a train. In my experience, the PA system is seldom used when it should be a very valuable asset. I understand the operator is likely busy trying to troubleshoot, but control has the ability to communicate with passengers across the line, so why don’t they? Just let us know what’s going on.

For the second stoppage, which admittedly was just after midnight with only half a dozen passengers on board, there was no update at all. Not that I was expecting a tweet or a live update since we were only stopped ~10 minutes, but the operator didn’t say anything. We just sat there wondering what was going on until we got underway again. At one point I seriously started wondering if the operator had a medical emergency or something.

If stoppages are going to continue to be a regular thing, OC Transpo needs to focus on refining its comms regime. They have so many channels: Twitter, OC app, station video screens, station PA, onboard PA, etc. All of them should be used liberally.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

I’m no expert but here’s my take. The choice of rolling stock simply isn’t suited for the job. We hear talks about maintenance activities piling up faster than RTM can action them, to the point where some crucial activities are not performed during the nightly closures. To me, that’s not normal. RTM’s hands shouldn’t be so full that every night is a full sprint to put out fires. I think they are basically tasked with trying to pick up the slack for a tram that wants to be a metro.

Yesterday, while riding Line 1 (my one trip out of three in which my train wasn’t held), I noticed the wheels were again causing issues. It was an especially bumpy ride and there was a droning noise that increased in frequency as we sped up, likely indicating an inconsistency on the wheel(s). We hear that RTM has started profiling the wheels to ensure they’re round, so why is this still happening? I thought to myself, somewhere down the road, this is going to result in a stopped train.

No technical background but agree. I do have experience being a regular rider in quite a few of the best systems in the world. Given my lack of technical knowledge I was frequently telling people we are getting a subway/metro. Fully grade separated and frequent headways. Passengers don't care about the distinction. A lot of cities have both and for the most part it's irrelevant. It seems obvious now. I mean light rail is cheaper if it could do the job of heavy rail why wouldn't all systems choose to run a tram?

[SidetrackedSue]

So either the brakes default in the 'on' position or .....

the brakes are simply defective and he misspoke.

I'm betting on the latter. But it shows the arrogance of City that they so ineffectively dismiss the concerns of those stuck in the tunnel for almost an hour.

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/simple-brake-d...-transit-commission-chair-says-1.5673423

Apparently defective brakes on a train are not a worry. At least in this case, the defect meant they defaulted to "on" and the train stopped running. Which is a far superior outcome than the defective brakes defaulting to "off".

The gaslighting of the passengers is another concern. The article is inaccurate, it implies the stoppage was only for the amount of time between the two tweets. OC Transpo didn't tweet out that there was a problem for a significant amount of time. They only did so after photographic proof was up on social media (the proof was requested by people because, since OCT didn't indicate any problems, those stuck on the train were asked to prove they weren't pulling a hoax to further tar the reputation of the LRT.)

After poor communications, both to those on the train and to those arriving at stations having not been told there was an issue, to dismiss brake 'defaults' as a simple problem shows the depth of competence at OC Transpo. Not only does it seem they can't maintain or even run a railway, they also can't handle basic communications.

[roger1818]

Air brakes default to on so that if there is a failure, the vehicle will stop.

[rocketphish]

Brake problem caused stalled LRT train that kept passengers inside for 55 minutes on Thursday
A technician from Rideau Transit Maintenance reset the brakes before bringing the train to the nearest station, uOttawa, where passengers were let off.

Staff Reporter, Ottawa Citizen
Publishing date: Nov 19, 2021 • 4 hours ago • 1 minute read



OC Transpo said a “brake issue” was what kept a train stalled in the underground downtown tunnel on Thursday night for roughly 55 minutes.

The transit service said Friday that the train was travelling eastbound at 8:10 p.m. with around 50 passengers on board when it came to a stop between Rideau Station and uOttawa Station because of an issue with one of its 14 brakes. While the operator attempted to fix the issue, a technician from Rideau Transit Maintenance was dispatched and successfully reset the brakes before bringing the train to the nearest station, uOttawa, where passengers were let off after nearly an hour aboard.

The stopped train was then returned to the Maintenance and Storage Facility for further investigation and a replacement train was put into service, according to a statement from Troy Charter, director of transit operations with the City of Ottawa.

Due to the stalled train, service on the line was relegated to a single track between Parliament and Rideau stations from 8:30 p.m. until approximately 9:10 p.m., causing increased travel and wait times. for some trains.

“Some customers may have experienced delays of 15 minutes or more depending on portions of the line travelled,” Charter’s statement said.

Since the stopped train was moved to uOttawa station, “transferring passengers to another train in between stations was not required,” he added.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...engers-inside-for-55-minutes-on-thursday

[JCL]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

From Chianello's article:



I'm confused, based on reports I've seen (admittedly, on Reddit), the issue of trains slowing to a crawl in the aforementioned section seems to have arisen after the return to service last Friday. So, was Geurra implying that the speed restrictions were intentional and meant to be an improvement? I sure hope not. Especially since the reports I've read have mentioned that the slow-crawl is accompanied by a demonic grinding noise.



This leads me to believe the restrictions are temporary, but then it also raises the question, why wasn't the rail replaced during the almost two-month shutdown?

And then from Willing's article, we see:



Now I'm even more confused, were speed restrictions added or removed? In either case, why are there reports of slower speeds after the return to service? Is he possibly referring to other segments of the line?

All I can say is, I really find it hard to be confident things will change. It always seems like, after a major issue, we're on the path to "reliable service" until something else breaks. Rinse and repeat. Perhaps the most troubling part of all of this is that Guerra admits some key maintenance activities are neglected because RTM apparently can't get to them during the regular nightly closures. Does anyone else not see that as a huge problem? Are we supposed to expect further two-month shutdowns as pending maintenance activities start piling up again? I guess we'll see.

Regarding speed restrictions, there were many prior to the August and September derailments (with many being lifted just prior to the September derailment).

I will list the ones that I can remember off the top of my head.

Westbound (Track 1)

- Between Blair Station and Cyrville Station - travelling at either 40 to 50 km/h instead of 80 or 90 km/h (compared to the eastbound direction on Track 2), though the odd train did got up to 80 or 90 km/h

- Between Cyrville and half-way between Cyrville Station and St. Laurent Station -- trains came to a crawl

- Between west of St. Laurent Station (just as the trains is about to exit the tunnel) and around the first crossover switch area prior to MSF tunnel -- trains came to a crawl

- Between Hurdman Station and Lees Station -- trains came to a crawl

- Between half-way between Lyon Station and Pimisi Station

Eastbound (Track 2)

- Between Pimisi Station and half-way between Pimisi Station and Lyon Station -- trains came to a crawl

- Between Lees Station and Hurdman Station -- trains came to a crawl

- Between half-way between St. Laurent Station and Cyrville Station and Cyrville Station -- trains came to a crawl and the trains would vibrate/shake when going through the curve as it was entering Cyrville Station

[SidetrackedSue]

There's a parking lot between the buildings beside the Canex. We can park right beside the tracks and there is a picnic table there. Last summer and as recently as yesterday (brrrr!) that is a destination picnic site so the grands can watch the trains go by.

One lovely driver even tooted his horn for the waving 2 year old. The slow down of the trains there is very welcome, but yes it is a crawl!

(That spot and the Rockcliff airport have been our two destinations for the past 16 months since the kids aren't allowed to go anywhere. YOW planes are too noisy for the most sensitive one, so I've been asked not to ever go back there for plane spotting. I'm also not allowed to take them as far as Smiths Falls to watch the trains there. I don't know of any spot in the city with as steady a number of trains going through and parking right by the tracks.)

[Sauvanto]

picture this: it's 2021, the BRT to Terry Fox and the BRT down the median of the 174 to Trim has just been completed. With this addition combined with the downtown bus-tunnel, frequent bus service has been increased and commute times diminished.
More people use OCtranspo now than ever, seeing how quickly their local buses can merge on the sleek new transitways and take them directly downtown.
Massive TODs are going up along the new BRT transit hubs seeing how well they are connected.
As part of Phase 3 BRT expansion, a dedicated transitway from Algonquin to Fallowfield, the Cumberland Transitway and the March Road Transitway are now under construction. Phase 3 is due to complete in 2026, at which point the Transitway will enter Phase 4 and expand down Greenbank and Stittsville.
By 2035, Ottawa will be fully connected with the largest BRT system in North America. The new transitways also make it possible to run 100% electric buses as it is easy to reach the various charging depos.

[Sauvanto]

here's another one for you: it's 2021, the Otrain Phase 1 has again been delayed. The expected opening date is now 2024; at which point the subway will connect Trim to Algonquin via a downtown tunnel.
The Tremblay transit hub construction is almost complete, which will replace the now closed Hurdman station, as planners deemed the sharp curves would slow down the subway cars too much and add unnecessary delays.
The construction of bypass bus lanes is underway to assure a good bus replacement service will be in place for night travels and in case of closures.
Upon completion, Phase 2 will complete the bypass rails around certain stations to allow for express services during commute hours. These services will drastically reduce commute times, which compensates for the removal of direct express buses to downtown.
Phase 2 will also see the expansion of the subway to Barrhaven and Kanata.
In 2030, Phase 3 will begin and convert existing line 2 to double track to use the same subway cars as line 1. An extension to the airport and Riverside South will also be built, along with the construction of new transitways in Kanata North, Barrhaven South and Orleans.

[Truenorth00]

All I picture is a transit system that is extremely high cost, very ineffective off-peak, and can't spur TOD.

Moving 50-70 passengers on one diesel powered bus at a time is very expensive. The fuel is expensive. The vehicles are expensive and last half as long as rail vehicles. And all that inevitably would have meant service cuts, especially to off-peak services as the system expanded. Also, if the BRT was so great, why was TOD so terrible along the Transitway, for so long?

The O-Train is far from perfect. But it is and will be much better than the Transitway could ever have been.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

All I picture is a transit system that is extremely high cost, very ineffective off-peak, and can't spur TOD.

Moving 50-70 passengers on one diesel powered bus at a time is very expensive. The fuel is expensive. The vehicles are expensive and last half as long as rail vehicles. And all that inevitably would have meant service cuts, especially to off-peak services as the system expanded. Also, if the BRT was so great, why was TOD so terrible along the Transitway, for so long?

The O-Train is far from perfect. But it is and will be much better than the Transitway could ever have been.

Amen. I will hold out for light rail improvements. BRT was never a way forward, it was just an interesting stopgap measure.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Amen. I will hold out for light rail improvements. BRT was never a way forward, it was just an interesting stopgap measure.

Agreed. While BRT is useful in some circumstances, it isn't a very efficient way of moving a large number of people. A bus tunnel would have been expensive and only delayed the inevitable.

[DTcrawler]

People who ride transit by choice (rather than by necessity) don't want to ride buses. They want to ride trains. I don't know why that is, but living in Toronto and Montreal, you'll see that people will take the subway/metro (and streetcar in TO) in a heartbeat, but won't touch the buses.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

People who ride transit by choice (rather than by necessity) don't want to ride buses. They want to ride trains. I don't know why that is, but living in Toronto and Montreal, you'll see that people will take the subway/metro (and streetcar in TO) in a heartbeat, but won't touch the buses.

Tourists are also much more likely to use a rail transit system than take buses.