NEW YORK | 200 Greenwich - 2 WTC | 1,226 FT | 55 FLOORS

[JMKeynes]

This building sucks, but I see no reason why Larry will find a tenant with a worse proposal than he could with better proposals.

Fortunately, this site will sit empty for another ten years, and this lame tower won't rise.

If this were proposed at 6th Ave and 47th St., I'd be pleased, but not at the WTC.

[Zapatan]

It's okay, I don't really love it or hate it, it's better than BIG's tower but not as cool as Foster's original. I hope they can go ahead and build this (and Tower 5) soon. What are the odds of both getting off the ground in the next year or two?

There's something 270 Park Avenue-ish about the top which is kind of neat, it also looks about as high as 1WTC which is awesome.

[worldtrade2021]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

This building sucks, but I see no reason why Larry will find a tenant with a worse proposal than he could with better proposals.

Fortunately, this site will sit empty for another ten years, and this lame tower won't rise.

At this point idek if the tower will get built if they keep postponing it with all the competition from Hudson Yards and companies moving to remote work. But this most recent design almost makes it a good thing it's going to be delayed for that long or indefinitely.

Still there will be a noticeable gap between Three WTC and One WTC which will continue to make the skyline look incomplete and the overall complex underwhelming.

It is going to make NYC look very bad however if by the 30 year anniversary of 9/11 there is no Two WTC built or if they haven't decided what the alternative plans are for that site (such as a park or low-rise building). Would imagine that Larry would be more anxious to get the rebuilding under way given his age but maybe he's more concerned that one of his final projects isn't a vacant office tower built under his oversight.

Right now the only buildings under construction at the WTC site that are almost guaranteed to be complete by the mid 2020s are the PAC and the St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, with the design and construction of Five WTC still subject to change and fights over how much space should be residential and how much should be commercial possibly delaying the construction of that tower such that it won't be complete by the mid 2020s.

If this were proposed at 6th Ave and 47th St., I'd be pleased, but not at the WTC.

Agreed, this recent design of Two WTC looks more like a tower you'd see in Midtown Manhattan, not Lower Manhattan.

Originally Posted by BXFrank

The height of 3wtc was also reduced from 1155ft to 1079 ft, l hope the same will not apply to 2wtc

Them doing that really ruined the spiral effect of the towers that was originally planned. If not for that then maybe it would be okay if Two WTC was never built. But as it is now there is a noticeable gap that needs to be filled that will never be if Two WTC isn't built.

Originally Posted by NYguy

They may build on spec, but still looking for a big tenant or two to help obtain financing.

Is there any reason why Two WTC requires a big tenant to help obtain financing the construction? Three WTC also seemed to have this problem and back in 2013-2015 there was speculation that only the podium would be built and not the rest of the tower. Two, Three and Four WTC are all overseen by Silverstein Properties so what makes Two WTC different that it absolutely cannot have at least the podium built?

From https://newyorkyimby.com/2021/11/models-...de-center-in-the-financial-district.html there is the paragraph saying

2 WTC does not have government assistance for the construction, unlike previous World Trade Center buildings. A construction timeline and expected completion date will all depend on Silverstein Properties securing anchor tenants and construction financing.

If there was government assistance for the other towers why were there similar delays (albeit less) with the construction of Three WTC? And why isn't there any governmental assistance for the development of Two WTC?

[WonderlandPark2]

Is this multi-use?

I see the large trading floors in the lower section, then the floor heights get greatly reduced, more like residential per-floor height.

or even office, hotel, residential, looking at the model more.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by WonderlandPark2

Is this multi-use?

I see the large trading floors in the lower section, then the floor heights get greatly reduced, more like residential per-floor height.

or even office, hotel, residential, looking at the model more.

From some recent 5 WTC reading, it does seem like some hotel use may be back on the table. That was in the original plan, then was scrapped. The original WTC had it's own hotel too, so it could work here.












https://www.instagram.com/p/CWmCPVVviZi/

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

I think that the Good Lord will deliver something amazing here that will be reminiscent of 270 but with even way more setbacks.

This is precisely what I predicted, but I thought that there would be a lot more setbacks. Most cities would drool over this building, but for NY, it is mediocre.

[DCReid]

So instead of a twin to 1 WTC, they have a slightly more fancy twin to 125 Greenwich Street. How disappointing!

https://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=15145

[JMKeynes]

2.2m sf of office is still way too much. If Larry wants to build this, he should shrink the office to 1.5m sf and use the other 700k sf for rentals and condos.




Also, the base definitely looks like a hotel and not trading floors. No finance firm wants to be in this area, so I guess Larry finally woke up to that reality.

It looks like there's ground floor retail, then a few floors of mechanicals, then the hotel.

[worldtrade2021]

Originally Posted by NYguy

From some recent 5 WTC reading, it does seem like some hotel use may be back on the table. That was in the original plan, then was scrapped. The original WTC had it's own hotel too, so it could work here.

The completion date for PAC being 2023 is right on schedule and the expected time of completion of the St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church is just a year too early so this current timetable looks very reasonable for the present time. I wouldn't expect above ground construction of Two WTC to begin until the PAC is complete (i.e. not before the mid 2020s) but maybe construction will resume earlier than expected.


Making Two WTC a part hotel/part office complex might speed up when the greenlight for resuming construction on Two WTC arrives. Still there is competition for hotel space from the nearby Millenium Hilton hotel (although the Marriott World Trade Center hotel and Millenium Hilton hotel co-existed prior to 9/11 so maybe not).

If the tower is going to have non office space designated floors it would make sense to make it hotels rather than residential, as residential towers on the exact site of the original 16 acre WTC site would be very out of place and probably highly contested because it would be assumed to be disrespectful to allow people to live on a site where such an event took place and that was not originally intended for residential space.

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

2.2m sf of office is still way too much. If Larry wants to build this, he should shrink the office to 1.5m sf and use the other 700k sf for rentals and condos.

Also, the base definitely looks like a hotel and not trading floors. No finance firm wants to be in this area, so I guess Larry finally woke up to that reality.

It looks like there's ground floor retail, then a few floors of mechanicals, then the hotel.

Ground floor retail at lower levels is well in line with the current setup for Four WTC and Three WTC, so ground floor retail being present in an eventual Two WTC tower is a good possibility. Even in the previous Foster renders of the lower levels of Two WTC, it appears to show ground floor retail:


This is just speculation but shuttering of the nearby Century 21 department store could make this plan of ground level retail in an eventual Two WTC even more of a possibility, as space for such a store or similar brand of stores that was lost could be made up for in a newer building close to the original location of the store.

[Bill Ditnow]

Everyone assumes this is a real Foster design. Maybe it is, but only YIMBY is reporting this, and even they say there is no evidence that it is a recent design or that it is from Foster.

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by Bill Ditnow

Everyone assumes this is a real Foster design. Maybe it is, but only YIMBY is reporting this, and even they say there is no evidence that it is a recent design or that it is from Foster.

It looks like a Foster, and Yimby seems to have a mole at F&P.

[worldtrade2021]

Originally Posted by Bill Ditnow

Everyone assumes this is a real Foster design. Maybe it is, but only YIMBY is reporting this, and even they say there is no evidence that it is a recent design or that it is from Foster.

Given that this design isn't official and was only announced today I don't think it can be yet said that this is the official redesign.

From the way things have progressed in the past, it's more likely that an official redesign of Two WTC will only be announced in Spring 2022 and news of "being about to start construction" will again come up on the 21st anniversary of 9/11.

Or a landmark tenant will be announced sometime in early spring or late summer of 2022 that has expressed interest in relocating to Two WTC, only for them to pull out at the last moment (as happened with Fox in 2016 and Deutsche Bank in 2017) and construction to be postponed again.

The Oculus Beer Garden will probably be a mainstay for at least a few years during the Spring through Fall.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by DCReid

So instead of a twin to 1 WTC, they have a slightly more fancy twin to 125 Greenwich Street. How disappointing!

At no time was the Freedom Tower going to have a twin.

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

2.2m sf of office is still way too much. If Larry wants to build this, he should shrink the office to 1.5m sf and use the other 700k sf for rentals and condos.

2 msf is not a lot by NY standards. ( In fact, if you look at new construction, it’s practically the standard. Also, towers 3 and 4 are basically full, so it’s not as if tenants won’t come. As I think I’ve said a million times, it justctakes longer to lease Downtown.



https://www.archpaper.com/2021/09/shared...world-trade-center-office-complex/?amp=1

The other completed towers under Silverstein’s purview include 3 World Trade Center, a 2.5-million-square-foot office building finished in 2018, as well as 4 World Trade Center, a 2.5-million-square-foot office tower built in 2013. The buildings are currently 80 percent and 100 percent leased, respectively. Tenants include advertising firm GroupM and tech companies like Spotify and Uber, as well as Casper Sleep and management consulting firm McKinsey & Company.

One World Trade Center, the crown jewel of the site, is separately owned by the Durst Organization and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. When it opened in 2014, it was 55 percent leased. The Twin Towers, for reference, were a hard sell for decades and full occupancy didn’t happen until just prior to 9/11. Before the start of the pandemic, 1 World Trade Center was 92 percent leased.

[JMKeynes]

But I’m referring to financing. Even with 2.2m sf, Larry would need at least a 500k to 750k sf anchor. Maybe Amazon wound do it. They were looking for around 500k sf in JC.

As I recall, IBM also is looking for about 500k sf.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

But I’m referring to financing. Even with 2.2m sf, Larry would need at least a 500k to 750k sf anchor. Maybe Amazon wound do it. They were looking for around 500k sf in JC.

As I recall, IBM also is looking for about 500k sf.

I know you are referring to financing. It’s not a new concept, it’s how towers get built. He wouldn’t need that much, though he previously said he woukd probably build on spec. One Vanderbilt got built with less than 200k signed to TD Bank.

https://www.6sqft.com/midtown-supertall-one-vanderbilt-secures-1-5b-in-construction-financing/

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by NYguy

I know you are referring to financing. It’s not a new concept, it’s how towers get built. He wouldn’t need that much, though he previously said he woukd probably build on spec. One Vanderbilt got built with less than 200k signed to TD Bank.

https://www.6sqft.com/midtown-supertall-one-vanderbilt-secures-1-5b-in-construction-financing/

But 1 Vandy is in a prime location. It’s no secret that the WTC is not a prime location. Also, doesn’t 1 Vandy have only around 1.6m sf? If 2 WTC has 2.2m sf of office, that requires a pretty big commitment, albeit less than when it had 2.8m sf of office space.

Even with 2.2m sf, it will be difficult to finance a tower without a very significant pre-construction tenant commitment.

[TK2001]

[pico44]

I think you guys are nuts. I think this is really really well done. But what do I know. I have loved all three designs and would be happy with any of them.

[iiConTr0v3rSYx]

I do like how they stayed true to the original facade and base of the building.

Definitely disappointed they did away with the diamonds, the top leaves much to be desired.

[Bill Ditnow]

Well, again, according to Yimby, this is a leaked photo from an “anonymous tipster.” The article goes on to say it’s not even known that that is a Foster iteration. If, as was suggested, Yimby had a mole at F&P, they would know it is a Foster iteration, and would have said so.

No other media has picked up on this. The design, even a preliminary one, for 2 World Trade would be a big story. I am sure the Times, Post, Daily News, etc. were tipped to this yesterday and have tried to verify it. The fact that there is nothing about this in the morning papers suggests that it’s a false lead.

Someone did go through the trouble of mocking up lower Manhattan and the putative design certainly looks like a valid architectural work. But it could have been another architect entirely or some kind of hobbyist. It does look like this is stored in someone’s basement, not what you’d expect, I don’t think, from a major architectural firm. So we’ll see. For now, I wouldn’t read too much into this.