DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[BG918]

Originally Posted by jhwk

The historic building is fine, it’s the bus concourse and the above ground walkway between the commuter rail and the light rail that’s gone to hell.

The RTD security guards seem to have gone on a soft strike after a couple of them got caught beating up a homeless person in the bathroom last summer and the RTD board started talking about terminating Allied’s contract.

Extrajudicial punishment is bad. So is a security force deciding they are not under civilian control and throwing a tantrum when held accountable.

I've also noticed the deterioration of this area. It used to be somewhat of an island but is now like the rest of downtown. Hopefully they can get it under control.

[Arapahoe]

Originally Posted by BG918

I've also noticed the deterioration of this area. It used to be somewhat of an island but is now like the rest of downtown. Hopefully they can get it under control.

I don't know. The Wynkoop side of Union Station is always vibrant, no vacancies and a great place visit, including the station itself.

You have to expect some level of transient poor in a big city transportation hub and "the rest of downtown". I feel its a safe place, but obviously open drug use, camping and shoplifting need to be controlled aggressively.

Fortunately Hancock is enforcing the camping ban. Arapahoe Square is finally free of almost all tents for the first time in 2 years. The civic center park is once again a nice place to walk.

The city's fencing strategy to restore areas seem to work. The troubled area in Union Station (by the Whole Foods) is now fenced in and they have a mobile command unit trailer stationed there. They also fenced a section of Skyline Park. I think when RTD light rail ridership and downtown workforce gets closer to normal, those areas also improve in terms of vacancies and foot traffic.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by Arapahoe

I don't know. The Wynkoop side of Union Station is always vibrant, no vacancies and a great place visit, including the station itself.

You have to expect some level of transient poor in a big city transportation hub and "the rest of downtown". I feel its a safe place, but obviously open drug use, camping and shoplifting need to be controlled aggressively.

Fortunately Hancock is enforcing the camping ban. Arapahoe Square is finally free of almost all tents for the first time in 2 years. The civic center park is once again a nice place to walk.

The city's fencing strategy to restore areas seem to work. The troubled area in Union Station (by the Whole Foods) is now fenced in and they have a mobile command unit trailer stationed there. They also fenced a section of Skyline Park. I think when RTD light rail ridership and downtown workforce gets closer to normal, those areas also improve in terms of vacancies and foot traffic.

I've lived in Union Station since 2019. It really isn't super safe at the moment. I've been threatened multiple times around my building, been followed down Chestnut, had homeless follow me inside my apartment building, dealing with 11 straight months of break-ins, hard drugs (mostly meth) being used in my hallways, stairwells, trashed areas inside and outside the building. We are moving next month and couldn't be more excited to get out of this neighborhood. We aren't super happy about moving but it's become such a background stress, it's the only right thing to do.

[Arapahoe]

Originally Posted by RyanD

I've lived in Union Station since 2019. It really isn't super safe at the moment. I've been threatened multiple times around my building, been followed down Chestnut, had homeless follow me inside my apartment building, dealing with 11 straight months of break-ins, hard drugs (mostly meth) being used in my hallways, stairwells, trashed areas inside and outside the building. We are moving next month and couldn't be more excited to get out of this neighborhood. We aren't super happy about moving but it's become such a background stress, it's the only right thing to do.

wow! that's crazy.

[CONative]

Originally Posted by RyanD

I've lived in Union Station since 2019. It really isn't super safe at the moment. I've been threatened multiple times around my building, been followed down Chestnut, had homeless follow me inside my apartment building, dealing with 11 straight months of break-ins, hard drugs (mostly meth) being used in my hallways, stairwells, trashed areas inside and outside the building. We are moving next month and couldn't be more excited to get out of this neighborhood. We aren't super happy about moving but it's become such a background stress, it's the only right thing to do.

Where are you moving to?

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by RyanD

I've lived in Union Station since 2019. It really isn't super safe at the moment. I've been threatened multiple times around my building, been followed down Chestnut, had homeless follow me inside my apartment building, dealing with 11 straight months of break-ins, hard drugs (mostly meth) being used in my hallways, stairwells, trashed areas inside and outside the building. We are moving next month and couldn't be more excited to get out of this neighborhood. We aren't super happy about moving but it's become such a background stress, it's the only right thing to do.

That sucks. I'm sorry to hear about your extremely negative experiences (no one doesn't want to feel safe in their own home) and basically being forced out. Hope the new place is better for your family.

Ryan's experience is anecdotal, but it's an example of how DPD/RTD Security have been soft striking because they feel butt-hurt from the public backlash they have received over the last year. But, the RTD Board is still on the social justice bandwagon as is a certain City Council member so they probably are celebrating the open air drug markets and the downtrodden who feel emboldened enough to break and enter anywhere they feel fit.

[TakeFive]

See ya; I'm outta here



https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/lo...-cites-homelessness-for-downtown-closure

Despite its name, Teriyaki Madness was tired of the chaos surrounding its location near Union Station.

The Denver-based fast-casual Asian chain, which serves rice bowls with proteins and vegetables, closed its only corporate-owned store at 1920 17th St. in downtown Denver in June. It opened in 2019.

Was it the location?

“Things like protests and lack of office traffic really caused a lot of business disruption,” said CEO Michael Haith. “The homeless issue down in that area was unsafe. We had a terrible time operating the restaurant, and we didn’t see any end in sight. I will not mince words.”

Haith said the company negotiated a deal with the landlord to get out of the lease, which still had years left.

This was in the Cadence Apartment building that was one of the 1st projects to break ground along the Promenade.

Denver Infill had the news: May 8, 2012

In September 2011, we first blogged about Zocalo Development’s proposed residential project at 17th and Wewatta in Downtown Denver’s booming Union Station district. This is a short update to let you know that the 13-story, 220-unit project, now named Cadence Apartments, is about to begin construction.

According to Zocalo:

CADENCE. THE FIRST LEED® APARTMENT HIGH-RISE IN THE UNION STATION NEIGHBORHOOD

Completed in 2014, Cadence was the first multifamily development to open in Denver’s Union Station neighborhood, which was one of the most ambitious multi-modal transportation and neighborhood redevelopments in the nation. The community offers the best in LEED®-Gold certified urban development, and will likely achieve energy savings approaching 50 percent compared to EPA apartment averages.

Cadence was recognized as Project of the Year by the Downtown Denver Partnership and New Business of the Year by the LoDo Limelight Awards.

Courtesy Rent.com

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by CONative

Where are you moving to?

Originally Posted by wong21fr

That sucks. I'm sorry to hear about your extremely negative experiences (no one doesn't want to feel safe in their own home) and basically being forced out. Hope the new place is better for your family.

We're going back to Baker. I know it's not going to be perfect over there but it's a hell of a lot better than Union Station right now. Plus, being by Alameda Station is great for access to many areas.


Unfortunately, we were going to keep saving and think about purchasing property next year, but the goals have shifted and leaving Union Station is the #1 priority. This will also shift our other goal another 1.5 years or so due to leases. But we're moving to a brand new building, so that will be pretty cool.



I'm very sour about all of this and ultimately incredibly disappointed with the city, RTD, and my councilperson for just giving up and going home the past year.


Speaking of the "open air drug market", 100% of the time I walk in this neighborhood people are lighting up meth in plain sight. On a typical day, I will see about a half dozen different instances whether it's in building crevasses, by my parking garage, or just on the street. I have become familiar with the smell and have had it run through my HVAC system multiple times a week from people breaking into the stairwell just down the hall from me and hot-boxing my side of the building with their meth. I witness drug deals from my balcony almost daily even with a full blown construction site next door. These people don't care and just want their dizzy crystals. Don't get me started with the needles I see on the street.

[Agent Orange]

Originally Posted by Arapahoe

The city's fencing strategy to restore areas seem to work. The troubled area in Union Station (by the Whole Foods) is now fenced in and they have a mobile command unit trailer stationed there. They also fenced a section of Skyline Park. I think when RTD light rail ridership and downtown workforce gets closer to normal, those areas also improve in terms of vacancies and foot traffic.

Then where did these folks go? Removing the truly massive camps around 22nd and Stout or Civic Center is good for the city's image perhaps, but anecdotally I see way more smaller tent clusters in neighborhoods these days (Cheesman, Baker, further north in Five Points) and friends in those neighborhoods are having disruptions/crime that they weren't dealing with in say 2018. I don't think the city has solved anything, though admittedly I'm not downtown nearly as much these days. The Union Station area is especially tragic as only a couple of years ago it was an accomplishment of urban design to be proud of. (Not that the city of Denver can fix such a deep, multicausal, national crisis on its own, but having city councilpersons who crawl into tents to protest their dispersal is probably not helping our relative performance in the matter.)

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by Agent Orange

Then where did these folks go?

They disperse into the buildings or form smaller groups which is actually worse. I know people are all up in arms about policing right now, but DPD will just escort these people off the property and release them. I understand there is a larger problem at stake, but these people think they are getting away with everything they're doing, and they are.

[Agent Orange]

Originally Posted by RyanD

They disperse into the buildings or form smaller groups which is actually worse. I know people are all up in arms about policing right now, but DPD will just escort these people off the property and release them. I understand there is a larger problem at stake, but these people think they are getting away with everything they're doing, and they are.

Well that makes sense. I'm sorry for you're having to pivot and change your goal timeline. I get where you're coming from. I left Curtis Park, in part, for similar reasons. I'm in a less urban but much quieter part of town and frankly given the increasing sketchiness of parts of central Denver, my urbanite self is okay with that. Baker is pretty cool though!

[TakeFive]

The only difference between you and Nathan MacKinnon is that he makes $5 million a year.

Originally Posted by RyanD

I've lived in Union Station since 2019. It really isn't super safe at the moment. I've been threatened multiple times around my building, been followed down Chestnut, had homeless follow me inside my apartment building, dealing with 11 straight months of break-ins, hard drugs (mostly meth) being used in my hallways, stairwells, trashed areas inside and outside the building. We are moving next month and couldn't be more excited to get out of this neighborhood. We aren't super happy about moving but it's become such a background stress, it's the only right thing to do.

https://www.denverpost.com/2021/10/04/nathan-mackinnon-sells-union-station-penthouse/

Avalanche center Nathan MacKinnon might be at the top of his game, but he’s no longer living at the top of The Coloradan. In early September, the hockey star sold his penthouse unit on the 19th floor of the condominium building at 1750 Wewatta St. for $3.1 million, according to public records. That’s $100,000 less than he paid for it in 2019, the year the building next to Union Station was completed.

Consider that MacK also had paid to have the place professionally decorated and he also had to cover the all the closing costs.

People on Meth can be harmless
when they take off all their clothes and walk around.

People on Meth can be dangerous
while I haven't heard of it happening in Denver, there's been a number of people down here who have killed somebody by knifing them like 50 times b/c they thought they were killing the Devil (or some such nonsense). Likely they were criminally inclined to begin with but WTF.

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Ryan's experience is anecdotal, but it's an example of how DPD/RTD Security have been soft striking because they feel butt-hurt from the public backlash they have received over the last year. But, the RTD Board is still on the social justice bandwagon as is a certain City Council member so they probably are celebrating the open air drug markets and the downtrodden who feel emboldened enough to break and enter anywhere they feel fit.

Let's just say things got complicated. It's not like RTD or DPD "want to" go soft. Basically, the security guys are limited; they have no policing powers.

The Backlash over that incident became a 'cause celeb' for 'protecting' the homeless and a fight over the right to use 'public' space. Being homeless is more of a ruse for excusing criminal activity. They don't seem to have a problem finding the money for drugs?

It's like the City has few rights in protecting itself, its public places from "lawlessness." Dare I say: "Give me the good old days when men were men etc"

Side Topic

Originally Posted by RyanD

They disperse into the buildings or form smaller groups which is actually worse. I know people are all up in arms about policing right now, but DPD will just escort these people off the property and release them. I understand there is a larger problem at stake, but these people think they are getting away with everything they're doing, and they are.

It has been soo frustrating but IMO "progressives" have significantly damaged the Democrat Party brand and the backlash is building.

[escodu05]

Excited to get this one developed. Groundbreaking expected Dec 1.

Smaller units but a lot of custom feel. We also need wanted no EFIS and used same architect as the 5 story apartment building on Pearl for context and a little more modern approach.

Originally Posted by Denver

I do not think this has been discussed.

New apartment at Buchtel Blvd & S Pennsylvania. 42 units. Targeting 2022 completion. Being developed by Confluent Development

[The Dirt]

Originally Posted by escodu05

Excited to get this one developed. Groundbreaking expected Dec 1.

Smaller units but a lot of custom feel. We also need wanted no EFIS and used same architect as the 5 story apartment building on Pearl for context and a little more modern approach.

It's a great looking project! I'm curious how you got this funded.

[TakeFive]

https://www.nakeddenver.com/post/42-apartments-headed-to-buchtel-blvd-s-pennsylvania-in-platt-park

The project is a joint venture between the power duo Confluent Development and Narrate.

....the site was occupied by Wash Park Car Wash which appeared to be in serious need of repairs and updating. On 01/10/19 the site sold for $875,000. Then, after building plans were approved and the site was prepped for development, the site sold again on 08/27/21 for $1,260,000.

1190 S Pennsylvania Street


Google Street View - 2018


Current Google Street View

More RiNo development

3575 Chestnut Place




Renderings provided by Studio Completiva.

The triangle lot at the intersection of Chestnut Place and 36th Street in RiNo will soon be home to a 49-unit apartment building known as Chestnut Lofts. The architect leading the project is Denver-based Studio Completiva.

[Arapahoe]

Originally Posted by Agent Orange

Then where did these folks go? Removing the truly massive camps around 22nd and Stout or Civic Center is good for the city's image perhaps, but anecdotally I see way more smaller tent clusters in neighborhoods these days (Cheesman, Baker, further north in Five Points) and friends in those neighborhoods are having disruptions/crime that they weren't dealing with in say 2018. I don't think the city has solved anything, though admittedly I'm not downtown nearly as much these days. The Union Station area is especially tragic as only a couple of years ago it was an accomplishment of urban design to be proud of. (Not that the city of Denver can fix such a deep, multicausal, national crisis on its own, but having city councilpersons who crawl into tents to protest their dispersal is probably not helping our relative performance in the matter.)

I think the pendulum is starting to swing again. The extreme left, (think Candi DeBacca and that ilk nationally) that promoted leniency, anti-capitalism, anti-police and thus encouraged rampant property crime and general disdain for public institutions, are losing favor rapidly.

People are starting to see through the vapid virtue signaling of the lefties. Leftist surmise-- oh, I'm a good person because I tolerate filth and drug use in our public spaces, but do nothing otherwise to improve the plight of the addicted, mentally ill and unhoused. Just look at the deplorable conditions in lefty controlled cities.

And hey, I'm more libertarian than most and I don't care if you dye your hair blue and identify as a female cat. But, I see a growing trend of people questioning their ridiculous cancel culture against anyone who objects to accepting victimhood as a rational for all societal ills.

Lets hope we start getting some sensible candidates nominated in both parties!

[Ndj]

I'll say this about the Union Station neighborhood after having lived in it for a year: It's a beautiful neighborhood that is somehow a pretty unpleasant place to be. I fear for my partner every time she leaves the house alone. I actually cringe with embarrassment when guests from out of town see the state of things.

I'm all for empathizing with the homeless and the downtrodden but the status quo isn't good for anyone.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

I feel like I've done a lot of walking around Boston and Manhattan and have not seen nearly as many homeless as I do in Denver. Is there something specific that other large cities do that we do not that causes homelessness to be less of an issue? There are also cities like San Francisco and Seattle that seem to be spend a lot more money yet have worse outcomes. My thought is that it is largely a federal issue. Also, how much of the total homeless population are like the people that smoke meth in the RTD bus terminal? I'm not sure that resolving the blight brought by the homeless crowd in Union Station involves the same strategy as addressing homelessness as a larger sociological phenomenon. The homeless issue downtown seems to be a fractional subset of the greater homeless population.

[mhays]

NYC is said to have a massive homeless population, but they're (a) mostly in shelters, (b) mostly located outside the core districts, and (c) subject to some pushback on behavior. I've walked loops around Manhattan and haven't seen many. I have a similar impression from walking around Boston.

Seattle is much like Denver. I don't trust stats, which are extremely unscientific, but we're said to be third worst behind LA and SF in terms of street homeless. I can believe this. There are some camps around Downtown, mostly at the south end, and also camps spread around other parts of town. It's nothing like some media outlets suggest but it's pretty bad. The recent election will be a turning point, as the mayor, the city attorney, and one council position went centrist (by our standards) with street homeless being the top issue. We've also been buying a number of hotels, which has reduced the volume of camping. Actually the surge in money on several fronts seems to be paying off.

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

I feel like I've done a lot of walking around Boston and Manhattan and have not seen nearly as many homeless as I do in Denver. Is there something specific that other large cities do that we do not that causes homelessness to be less of an issue? There are also cities like San Francisco and Seattle that seem to be spend a lot more money yet have worse outcomes. My thought is that it is largely a federal issue. Also, how much of the total homeless population are like the people that smoke meth in the RTD bus terminal? I'm not sure that resolving the blight brought by the homeless crowd in Union Station involves the same strategy as addressing homelessness as a larger sociological phenomenon. The homeless issue downtown seems to be a fractional subset of the greater homeless population.

I go to downtown San Francisco for work a couple times per year (when not in a pandemic) and it's horrible there. People just step over people passed out on the sidewalks, walk around the piss, and walk by tents along streets.

I thought SF, at one time, was actually giving homeless people money. I'm for helping people get back on their feet, but it seems that the more services a city provides, the more homeless the city attracts. I don't know what the answer is, but I'd hate to see it as bad here as in SF.

An Aussie friend of mine told me that in Sydney, the gov't just builds homeless camps outside the city and ships them there where they have some sort of services. At least it gets them off the streets.