PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread X

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

The idea is to build it now, giving it access and some ridership, so that when the residential towers are online, the people moving in already have access to the subway.

Build for the city of tomorrow, not the city of today.

If we really want to make the extension worthwhile I say we extend the BSL to the airport or have a spur go there.

That would be the best subway line around airport to center city without a car & so forth

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

If we really want to make the extension worthwhile I say we extend the BSL to the airport or have a spur go there.

That would be the best subway line around airport to center city without a car & so forth

Why? Makes no sense. There's already a SEPTA Regional Rail line for the airport. Why also spend all of this money extending the Broad Street Subway Line to the airport? Furthermore, it's really easy and fairly cheap to get a cab or uber/lyft from the airport as well.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by ok-ez

I still say no to an extension to the navy yard. a billion dollars to somewhere no one lives yet and it is still just a tax dodge for a few companies with one of the big ones leaving. I hope it makes sense in the future but don't think it does now

I say yes, absolutely extend the BSL to the Navy Yard. As McGrath said, we need to be building for the city of TOMORROW, not focused on the city of TODAY.

The Navy Yard as it currently stands is the 3rd largest business district in Philadelphia after Center City and University City. It's not just "a few" companies. There are well over 14,000 people working out of the Navy Yard to date, with plenty of plans for more office buildings/lab buildings/life science space, etc. With Philly's recent strides in the Life Sciences fields, the Navy Yard is a no brainer for a lot of these companies.

Furtheremore, there are plans for THOUSANDS of residential units in the Navy Yard. There is also a hotel with plans for one or two more. There are also plans for restaurants, shops, cafes and more amenities.

Lastly, there are also several parks there now already, with plans for more parks/green space and a great waterfront.

This could be a bustling hub of offices, life sciences and residences with restaurants, waterfront space and more within 5 short years. Planning for and building a subway extension down to here would take AT LEAST a decade in this country. We should be planning for it NOW.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Why? Makes no sense. There's already a SEPTA Regional Rail line for the airport. Why also spend all of this money extending the Broad Street Subway Line to the airport? Furthermore, it's really easy and fairly cheap to get a cab or uber/lyft from the airport as well.

I say that because apparently the current airport line we have is shitty & having more lines is always good?

Also it could have a stop in SW Philly giving it more stops and giving people more access.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Why? Makes no sense. There's already a SEPTA Regional Rail line for the airport. Why also spend all of this money extending the Broad Street Subway Line to the airport? Furthermore, it's really easy and fairly cheap to get a cab or uber/lyft from the airport as well.

A Passyunk Avenue spur could both serve the Bellweather district and the Airport.

The Airport Line is terrible and can’t run more frequently because Amtrak dispatches it. An Amtrak that doesn’t want more congestion on it’s already busiest route.

Running rapid transit with 10 minute headways like Chicago (either airport) or Boston or soon to be DC would be a much better solution for everyone.

[summersm343]

In my opinion, the most pressing rail extension for SEPTA and NJ Transit need to be:

1. BSL Extension to the Navy Yard
2. NHSL Extension to KOP
3. Regional Rail Extension to Phoenixville with stops also in KOP and Valley Forge
4. Regional Rail Extension to West Chester
5. Regional Rail Station at the Philadelphia Zoo
6. Light Rail Line along Delaware Ave/Columbus Blvd. from Aramingo Ave area, down to a loop around the stadiums/sports complex
7. Light Rail Line from Broad Street to Fairmount Park in the old City Branch - maybe even over to West Fairmount Park
8. Regional Rail Extension to Newtown
9. NJ Transit Glassboro Line from Camden to Glassboro through Gloucester City, Woodbury and Pitman
10. NJ Transit Rail line to Moorestown and Mount Holly
11. Some form of transit on the west side of South Philly to hit the future Bellweather District. Maybe partner with CSX to redo the awful 25th Street Viaduct, and run something along there from 30th Street Station down along 25th Street to Passyunk Ave then loop back up through the future Bellweather District?

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

A Passyunk Avenue spur could both serve the Bellweather district and the Airport.

The Airport Line is terrible and can’t run more frequently because Amtrak dispatches it. An Amtrak that doesn’t want more congestion on it’s already busiest route.

Running rapid transit with 10 minute headways like Chicago (either airport) or Boston or soon to be DC would be a much better solution for everyone.

Fair enough. So to my post above, point #11, we could run a line from 30th Street to the airport hitting the Bellweather District.

Just can't imagine there's going to be too much subway construction in the United States moving forward. I think realistically, most of our future transit is going to have to be street level light rail lines/trolleys, or elevated tracks.

[iamrobk]

Somewhat related to the airport transit issue, but I don't think it was posted here that the airport is going to permanently close the economy lot (AFAIK it's been "temporarily" closed for the last ~18 months due to COVID anyway) and use the space for more cargo operations. IIRC it's something like 7,000 spaces, so presumably once airport demand is back to pre-pandemic levels, people may be forced into changing their airport commuting patterns (or to pay a lot more to park at private lots near the airport).

[Boku]

Originally Posted by iamrobk

Somewhat related to the airport transit issue, but I don't think it was posted here that the airport is going to permanently close the economy lot (AFAIK it's been "temporarily" closed for the last ~18 months due to COVID anyway) and use the space for more cargo operations. IIRC it's something like 7,000 spaces, so presumably once airport demand is back to pre-pandemic levels, people may be forced into changing their airport commuting patterns (or to pay a lot more to park at private lots near the airport).

Yes, the economy lot is closed as my wife found out recently. All of the airport garages were completely filled and so were the private lots because of it. She ended up missing her flight. PHL is embarrassing.

[summersm343]

Yeah, parking at the airport needs to get figured out ASAP. We need more garages built now that the economy lot and a lot of private lots all closed. We also need some private lots to open and operate ASAP while we wait for more garages to be built. Apparently, it's impossible to find a spot right now and if you do, it's $650 minimum for a week to park. Just insanity. I have a vacation in June flying out of PHL and I'll 100% be taking the regional rail to the airport, or taking an uber/taxi.

[mcgrath618]

Another important point I forgot to mention earlier is that the Airport Line has the second worst farebox ratio of any Regional Rail Line.

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Didn’t Goldenberg build 1213 Walnut? They also built 3 high rises up by Temple.

I don't know about the Temple towers, but I'm pretty sure that 1213 Walnut was inching along and another developer bought controlling interest and ran the project. In any case, even if was a completely solo project, 8th & Market and a few other sites would continue to be what they are known for.

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by City Wide

I don't know about the Temple towers, but I'm pretty sure that 1213 Walnut was inching along and another developer bought controlling interest and ran the project. In any case, even if was a completely solo project, 8th & Market and a few other sites would continue to be what they are known for.

I seem to recall Goldenberg has a partner at Broad & Lombard/15th & South as well. And the Ayer adaptive-reuse was done with a partner, according to PBJ in 2006: Brown Hill Development of Huntingdon Valley. Historically, retail has been Goldenberg's bread and butter.

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

A Passyunk Avenue spur could both serve the Bellweather district and the Airport.

Originally Posted by summersm343

11. Some form of transit on the west side of South Philly to hit the future Bellweather District. Maybe partner with CSX to redo the awful 25th Street Viaduct, and run something along there from 30th Street Station down along 25th Street to Passyunk Ave then loop back up through the future Bellweather District?

Originally Posted by summersm343

Fair enough. So to my post above, point #11, we could run a line from 30th Street to the airport hitting the Bellweather District.

Spelling: Bellwether — it's a castrated ram with a bell around his neck.

The term derives from the Middle English bellewether and refers to the practice of placing a bell around the neck of a castrated ram (a wether) leading a flock of sheep. A shepherd could then note the movements of the animals by hearing the bell, even when the flock was not in sight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellwether

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

I say that because apparently the current airport line we have is shitty & having more lines is always good?

Also it could have a stop in SW Philly giving it more stops and giving people more access.

the airport line runs every 30 minutes for like 12-13 hours a day. That counts a shitty service? YOu can be at suburban station in like 15-20 minutes. What type of service would you expect? Very few airports are served by subways or light rail.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Yeah, parking at the airport needs to get figured out ASAP. We need more garages built now that the economy lot and a lot of private lots all closed. We also need some private lots to open and operate ASAP while we wait for more garages to be built. Apparently, it's impossible to find a spot right now and if you do, it's $650 minimum for a week to park. Just insanity. I have a vacation in June flying out of PHL and I'll 100% be taking the regional rail to the airport, or taking an uber/taxi.

no garages will be built and only one private lot closed. But it is true that there is a lot less capacity and this will impact pricing. I don't see anything changing there anytime soon. Maybe more people will use the airport line now.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by Boku

Yes, the economy lot is closed as my wife found out recently. All of the airport garages were completely filled and so were the private lots because of it. She ended up missing her flight. PHL is embarrassing.

Originally Posted by cardeza

no garages will be built and only one private lot closed. But it is true that there is a lot less capacity and this will impact pricing. I don't see anything changing there anytime soon. Maybe more people will use the airport line now.

I saw an interview about this recently and the response from airport management had a very casual, "Yeah it's closed, probably won't be reopening, on you to figure it out," type of tone to it. Who does this!? A busy airport in one of the biggest metros in the U.S. and this is the response.

I know people who avoid PHL and this won't help the situation. It's not my favorite airport either and while I don't hate it like some do I definitely don't love it either.

[summersm343]

I personally, honestly, don't understand the hate for PHL. I've flown in and out of QUITE a few airports now and I think PHL is actually very nice, very easy to maneuver through, usually always on time, etc. I've never had issues.

Is it just this typical Philadelphian self-defeatist - everything about our city sucks compared to this one and that one - attitude, or what?

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by summersm343

I personally, honestly, don't understand the hate for PHL. I've flown in and out of QUITE a few airports now and I think PHL is actually very nice, very easy to maneuver through, usually always on time, etc. I've never had issues.

Is it just this typical Philadelphian self-defeatist - everything about our city sucks compared to this one and that one - attitude, or what?

Dirty in many spots, rude staff, shuttle nightmares (I have a fun story from when we had to take one from one terminal to another), homeless people hanging around (although this has since been addressed within the last year but I cannot confirm the results, as I haven't flown out of there within the last year), baggage being tampered with and items stolen from it...

Again not my least favorite and there are things I like about it but also not my most favorite either. But this parking situation is really stupid no matter how you slice it.

[bigfish]

Originally Posted by summersm343

I personally, honestly, don't understand the hate for PHL. I've flown in and out of QUITE a few airports now and I think PHL is actually very nice, very easy to maneuver through, usually always on time, etc. I've never had issues.

Is it just this typical Philadelphian self-defeatist - everything about our city sucks compared to this one and that one - attitude, or what?

I am with you Summers. I have never had issues flying out of PHL. The only thing that would be nice is if the airport line had custom seats that made luggage easier to transport.