NEW YORK | 15 Penn Plaza (Hotel Penn) | 1,050 FT / 315 M | 52 FLOORS

[NYguy]

Walked by yesterday, and could see 🞵🞵🞵🞵 being loaded.

[NYguy]

https://commercialobserver.com/2021/10/w...tion-renovation-plan-under-kathy-hochul/


BY REBECCA BAIRD-REMBA
OCTOBER 18, 2021

.....Meanwhile, Vornado is getting ready to start construction on one of the largest of those 10 buildings, a 2.6 million-square-foot office and retail tower on the site of the Hotel Pennsylvania, at 401 Seventh Avenue. The 102-year-old hotel was shuttered in April 2020, and Vornado expects that it will take roughly two years to demolish its 1,700 rooms and begin construction on the new office building. The Foster + Partners-designed tower, known as Penn 15, is supposed to rise 1,270 feet and 57 stories into the air.

The commercial landlord is renovating the Long Island Rail Road concourse inside Penn Station, which involves moving Two Penn Plaza’s below-grade retail 60 feet deeper into the basement in order to widen the concourse and raise its ceiling. It is also renovating its public plazas around Penn Station, widening the sidewalk on Seventh Avenue, and rebuilding the main mid-block entrance to Penn Station along Seventh Avenue to make it wider and more attractive. The New Jersey Transit entrance, at the corner of West 31st and Seventh Avenue, will remain as it is for now.

[NYguy]

More demo prep...

[NYguy]

https://www.fool.com/amp/earnings/call-t...lty-trust-vno-q3-2021-earnings-call-tra/

VNO earnings call
November 3, 2021


Steven Roth -- Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

…..New York has clearly emerged as the second-largest and second most important tech hub in the country. Our activities in the Penn District are full steam ahead, here's the latest. At Farley, we are targeting opening The Fuller hall on the Ninth Avenue entrance by year end. Facebook's tenant work is proceeding with first employee occupancy scheduled for second quarter 2022.

At the Moynihan Train Hall, we have completed 22 retail leases. We are gratified and validated that Starbucks reports that its Moynihan -- its new Moynihan store is trending No. 1 out of its 190 Manhattan locations. In Penn Station, our Long Island Rail Road Concourse construction is about one-third complete.

We will now own both sides of this heavily traffic concourse. It will be a big win for us. The 34th Street, half of the PENN1 lobby is open and it is spectacular. Come take a look.

Our unique three-level, world-class amenity offering will open shortly, and the other half of the PENN1 lobby which fronts our 33rd Street will be completed end of first quarter 2022. At PENN2, our full building transformation is well underway, on schedule, and on budget. The job is largely bought out.

The demolition of Hotel Penn will begin this month, creating the best development site in the city.

Both office and retail tenant interest is high the Penn District with multiple large office users now focused on PENN2. Let me review again our Penn District financing plan. Capital required to complete Farley PENN1 and PENN2 is about $1 billion before TIs and that will be paid for entirely from our cash on balance sheet. Further, Farley, PENN1, and PENN2 are free and clear, unencumbered by any mortgage debt whatsoever.

[MAC123]

Why couldn't Vornado do art deco? Or Neo Art Deco? Is there a technical reason for it or do they just have no taste?
I hate people who go on and on about stupid art deco like they're being paid by the word, but being so close to ESB, the most legendary Skyscraper to ever be built, and an art deco icon it only makes sense that they do something reminiscent. Or at least make a decent design at all, as the current one just 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 no matter what style it's in.

[Sky88]

Originally Posted by MAC123

Why couldn't Vornado do art deco? Or Neo Art Deco? Is there a technical reason for it or do they just have no taste?
I hate people who go on and on about stupid art deco like they're being paid by the word, but being so close to ESB, the most legendary Skyscraper to ever be built, and an art deco icon it only makes sense that they do something reminiscent. Or at least make a decent design at all, as the current one just 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 no matter what style it's in.

In reality, initially there was the Pelli project. But it was abandoned in favor of Miami-style projects.

[Hudson11]

Originally Posted by MAC123

Why couldn't Vornado do art deco? Or Neo Art Deco? Is there a technical reason for it or do they just have no taste?
I hate people who go on and on about stupid art deco like they're being paid by the word, but being so close to ESB, the most legendary Skyscraper to ever be built, and an art deco icon it only makes sense that they do something reminiscent. Or at least make a decent design at all, as the current one just 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 no matter what style it's in.

name an art deco office skyscraper that has been built in the past ten years.

[TonyNYC]

Originally Posted by Hudson11

name an art deco office skyscraper that has been built in the past ten years.

Rose Hill at 30 E 29th in NoMad, but it is residential! (:

[MAC123]

Originally Posted by Hudson11

name an art deco office skyscraper that has been built in the past ten years.

Name a skyscraper of this height that has been built this close to ESB in the past ten years.
But anyway instead of answering my question of are there actual technical problems with an Art Deco office skyscraper you chose to be snarky for no reason.
And again, it doesn't have to be art deco. I suggested that since it was so close to ESB. I just want it to be a good design, as in not the current one.

[JMKeynes]

In this image, they reclad the utterly revolting block north of this site.

[TonyNYC]

[QUOTE=JMKeynes;9449026]In this image, they reclad the utterly revolting block north of this site.

You would think the revolting block featuring Sbarro's Pizza, which 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵, would be the first block torn down for a supertall in this grand plan, but of course not.. let's tear down the Hotel Penn instead!!

[JMKeynes]

[QUOTE=TonyNYC;9449030]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

In this image, they reclad the utterly revolting block north of this site.

You would think the revolting block featuring Sbarro's Pizza, which 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵, would be the first block torn down for a supertall in this grand plan, but of course not.. let's tear down the Hotel Penn instead!!

I agree. The problem is that the disgusting building with Sbarro is owned by a putz who refuses to sell. The state should acquire it with eminent domain.

[MAC123]

[QUOTE=JMKeynes;9449039]

Originally Posted by TonyNYC

I agree. The problem is that the disgusting building with Sbarro is owned by a putz who refuses to sell. The state should acquire it with eminent domain.

That's an abuse of power. And should definitely not happen. As much as you or I want a new building, and no matter how disgusting the old one is, "I want a new building" is not a justification for eminent domain. Now, if that was included in some grand mass transit scheme that would help everyone, that would be a justification for eminent domain.

[JMKeynes]

[QUOTE=MAC123;9449048]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

That's an abuse of power. And should definitely not happen. As much as you or I want a new building, and no matter how disgusting the old one is, "I want a new building" is not a justification for eminent domain. Now, if that was included in some grand mass transit scheme that would help everyone, that would be a justification for eminent domain.

I don't think so. They're trying to clean up the area and the owner's obstinance is an obstacle.

[NYguy]

The block to the north, aka site 6, will be an office tower. It is already mostly ornado.












The Hotel Pennsylvania is on its way to coming down, so let’s leave this discussion to that, and the other towers to the other thread for now.

[gttx]

Originally Posted by MAC123

Name a skyscraper of this height that has been built this close to ESB in the past ten years.
But anyway instead of answering my question of are there actual technical problems with an Art Deco office skyscraper you chose to be snarky for no reason.
And again, it doesn't have to be art deco. I suggested that since it was so close to ESB. I just want it to be a good design, as in not the current one.

I happen to think the current design is horrendously ugly and also that arc deco makes just as little sense.

I could provide a long answer to your question, but actually this person has already done a pretty good job.
https://www.quora.com/Why-arent-beautifu...art-deco-popular-anymore-with-new-builds

In short:
- Energy and environmental performance
- Quality materials
- Access to natural light
- Access to outdoor space
- Other tenant needs
- Development/leasing model
- Cost
- Architectural tastes over time

Buildings (well, the spaces inside them that are leased) are products, and making money by producing products requires interested consumers. Office tenants who are looking at new product are not interested in art deco, for many of the reasons above, and because if they wanted it there is plenty of old product out there for the taking.

That said, there are definitely ways of delivering on modern needs and amenities with beautiful design. Something "Penn15" is not currently achieving.

[MAC123]

Originally Posted by gttx

I happen to think the current design is horrendously ugly and also that arc deco makes just as little sense.

I could provide a long answer to your question, but actually this person has already done a pretty good job.
https://www.quora.com/Why-arent-beautifu...art-deco-popular-anymore-with-new-builds

In short:
- Energy and environmental performance
- Quality materials
- Access to natural light
- Access to outdoor space
- Other tenant needs
- Development/leasing model
- Cost
- Architectural tastes over time

Buildings (well, the spaces inside them that are leased) are products, and making money by producing products requires interested consumers. Office tenants who are looking at new product are not interested in art deco, for many of the reasons above, and because if they wanted it there is plenty of old product out there for the taking.

That said, there are definitely ways of delivering on modern needs and amenities with beautiful design. Something "Penn15" is not currently achieving.

Thank you. Like I said, the only reason I even suggested art deco is because it was so close to ESB. And I legitimately wanted to know if there were reasons why they weren't technically feasible. I wasn't particularly attached and I'm not one of those drones who go on and on about NY's past wanting it back without realizing how good the future is, I just want a good design for this. As in not the current one because I don't consider it a good design.

[NYguy]

I see aspects of another Foster design here...















https://www.fosterandpartners.com/projects/dji-headquarters/














http://asymmetrica.co.uk/?portfolio=dji

[NYguy]

https://untappedcities.com/2021/11/16/hotel-pennsylvania-demolition/

SAY GOODBYE TO THE HOTEL PENNSYLVANIA — DEMOLITION PREP IS UNDERWAY


Max Scott
11/16/2021

The Hotel Pennsylvania is slated for demolition. The ornamental building built in 1919 and designed by McKim, Mead & White sits across 7th Avenue from Penn Station. It is owned by Vornado Realty Trust, who has begun removing mattresses and furniture in preparation for the physical demolition of the building in January 2022.

This is not the first time that Vornado has tried to demolish the Hotel Pennsylvania. They bought the building in 1999 and announced plans to demolish it in 2006. In its place they wanted to build a glass skyscraper that approached the size of the Empire State Building. The 2008 recession put their plans on hold, and in 2013 Vornado announced that they wanted to restore the historic structure and bring it back to its 1919 glory.

Now they are reneging on that promise by claiming that it is too expensive. Demolition is planned to start in January 2022 as part of a larger mega-project to raze multiple blocks and historic buildings from 31st to 34th streets along 8th to 6th avenues.

[TonyNYC]

And to think Tower Verre was send back to the drawing boards and "cut" 200 feet from 1,200+ to 1,000+ FT because it was too close, 20 blocks away, to the Empire State Building.

So this 1,200 ft Lord Foster piece of trash will go up a block away.

Not against development at the Hotel Penn site, just want an epic NYC tower like 175 Park.. not this 🞵🞵🞵🞵.