PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread X

[bdurk]

General question: How long do you guys think it'll be until we see another 1000+ footer? Really hoping the next one we see is before the Transit Terminal Tower but that is my guess for the next one.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by bdurk

Why are people so hostile? I normally steer clear of Facebook so I'm not familiar with the communities too much but I can't see how people could possibly get so mad over skyscrapers lol

It’s largely over the “G” word...

[PhilliesPhan]

I feel like the group was much better in 2017 and 2018, back when it was called "UrbanPHL" and had a much smaller member base. Ever since the name change, it has fallen further downhill. I used to be a relatively active participant in that group and even attended an Urban Geeks Drinks event or two, which led to a few friendships. Nowadays, that group is a cesspit that I avoid for the most part.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by bdurk

Why are people so hostile? I normally steer clear of Facebook so I'm not familiar with the communities too much but I can't see how people could possibly get so mad over skyscrapers lol

Gentrification as Skyhigh said, and just angry people looking to cause trouble with those who think differently. The older I get the more I learn that it's easy for people to be negative and very hard to be positive or even neutral, and social media has turned into flies on s**t when it comes to trolling and negativity, even in what once was a cool discussion group. You are way better off here, lol.

Originally Posted by bdurk

General question: How long do you guys think it'll be until we see another 1000+ footer? Really hoping the next one we see is before the Transit Terminal Tower but that is my guess for the next one.

I don't think for a long time. Maybe Comcast will somehow pull it off (again). I think we will see some 600'-800 footers, but 1,000 would require a major tenant, which is usually a struggle, and I am losing hope in Schuylkill Yards getting one. But, that doesn't bother me, as long as the investment momentum doesn't slowdown, then I'm happy.

Edit: I would be happier to see 3 or 4 more Laurel's or Arthaus's pop up rather than 1 supertall.

[Urbanthusiat]

Originally Posted by bdurk

General question: How long do you guys think it'll be until we see another 1000+ footer? Really hoping the next one we see is before the Transit Terminal Tower but that is my guess for the next one.

It’ll be a while I think. Companies are consolidating space as we move to a more flexible relationship with the office, so I think there are headwinds against demand that will last a while IMO. I’m not aware of anyone in the market for a building that big - it certainly won’t be Comcast anytime soon.

[brenster]

I drove through the city coming north of the city driving south on 95 (for the 1st time in a year or two), then onto 676. Just a few observations:
Holy shit northern liberties is getting dense. Seen alot of pictures, but it was hard to understand the scale.
Arthaus takes up a nice spot in the skyline that I wasn’t expecting driving south on 95. Jefferson’s new medical building has a chance to fill in another gap too.
Holy shit the western side of center city(2222 market, riverside etc) is really extending the skyline.

[bdurk]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Gentrification as Skyhigh said, and just angry people looking to cause trouble with those who think differently. The older I get the more I learn that it's easy for people to be negative and very hard to be positive or even neutral, and social media has turned into flies on s**t when it comes to trolling and negativity, even in what once was a cool discussion group. You are way better off here, lol.



I don't think for a long time. Maybe Comcast will somehow pull it off (again). I think we will see some 600'-800 footers, but 1,000 would require a major tenant, which is usually a struggle, and I am losing hope in Schuylkill Yards getting one. But, that doesn't bother me, as long as the investment momentum doesn't slowdown, then I'm happy.

Edit: I would be happier to see 3 or 4 more Laurel's or Arthaus's pop up rather than 1 supertall.

I agree. I would love to see a couple more 700-900 footers or around that size to fill in our skyline. I also hope we see some variety in design in the future, I think a couple black skyscrapers like the Willis Tower or John Hancock Center in Chicago would compliment our skyline really well.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by bdurk

I agree. I would love to see a couple more 700-900 footers or around that size to fill in our skyline. I also hope we see some variety in design in the future, I think a couple black skyscrapers like the Willis Tower or John Hancock Center in Chicago would compliment our skyline really well.

It's really hard to say where this revolution in cell engineering is going to take Philly. I would think highest potential for tall buildings would be in West Philly. It would also balance the view of the skyline from the north.

The next two decades are going to be really exciting for Philly. I think we're going to see life sciences grow exponentially and hopefully the coattails of that will get us more tech exposure, generally. When you look at the map, with the Bellweather District, Navy Yard, the Pep Boys facility up in Nicetown/Germantown being re-positioned, job growth has the potential to be explosive.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

It's really hard to say where this revolution in cell engineering is going to take Philly. I would think highest potential for tall buildings would be in West Philly. It would also balance the view of the skyline from the north.

The next two decades are going to be really exciting for Philly. I think we're going to see life sciences grow exponentially and hopefully the coattails of that will get us more tech exposure, generally. When you look at the map, with the Bellweather District, Navy Yard, the Pep Boys facility up in Nicetown/Germantown being re-positioned, job growth has the potential to be explosive.

I wasn’t aware of PepBoys moving. Do you have any further reading about that?

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by brenster

I drove through the city coming north of the city driving south on 95 (for the 1st time in a year or two), then onto 676. Just a few observations:
Holy shit northern liberties is getting dense. Seen alot of pictures, but it was hard to understand the scale.
Arthaus takes up a nice spot in the skyline that I wasn’t expecting driving south on 95. Jefferson’s new medical building has a chance to fill in another gap too.
Holy shit the western side of center city(2222 market, riverside etc) is really extending the skyline.

To be honest, Northern Liberties is bonkers. I'm hardly a NIMBY but I have a property at 3rd&Brown that I rent out (used to live in) and the parking is incredibly difficult in the core of Northern Liberties at this point. And there is so much in the pipeline that you can't see yet, especially in the zone between Spring Garden and Callowhill, along the Delaware River, South Kensington, and along the L. We're pretty close to Northern Liberties feeling contiguous between the River and 8th Street, especially along Spring Garden.

I think the last piece that will make this section of the city feel cohesive and sort of it's own node of activity would be to see a more vibrant retail corridor. Obviously, Fishtown has surpassed Northern Liberties as the "hip" neighborhood in the area, but I still believe NoLibs has the highest potential to have a vibrant retail corridor which includes national tenants on 2nd Street and in the area around the new Piazza development.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

To be honest, Northern Liberties is bonkers. I'm hardly a NIMBY but I have a property at 3rd&Brown

Shocker.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

To be honest, Northern Liberties is bonkers. I'm hardly a NIMBY but I have a property at 3rd&Brown that I rent out (used to live in) and the parking is incredibly difficult in the core of Northern Liberties at this point. And there is so much in the pipeline that you can't see yet, especially in the zone between Spring Garden and Callowhill, along the Delaware River, South Kensington, and along the L. We're pretty close to Northern Liberties feeling contiguous between the River and 8th Street, especially along Spring Garden.

I think the last piece that will make this section of the city feel cohesive and sort of it's own node of activity would be to see a more vibrant retail corridor. Obviously, Fishtown has surpassed Northern Liberties as the "hip" neighborhood in the area, but I still believe NoLibs has the highest potential to have a vibrant retail corridor which includes national tenants on 2nd Street and in the area around the new Piazza development.

Parking is definitely nuts there.

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Shocker.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

Parking is definitely nuts there.

I wouldn't even pay anyone any mind who lives in that area that complains about parking.

YOU HAVE THE EL RIGHT THERE GROW UP.

[philly_account12]

the parking is incredibly difficult in the core of Northern Liberties at this point

Parking has been fine? I live in NoLibs so I obviously have different parking needs than visitors to the neighborhood, but incredibly difficult is not how I would describe the parking situation here. It can be bad on Thu/Fri/Sat nights and when events are happening on the weekend, but thats nothing new.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

I wouldn't even pay anyone any mind who lives in that area that complains about parking.

YOU HAVE THE EL RIGHT THERE GROW UP.

A lot of people who live outside of Center City work in the suburbs. When I lived there, I worked in Mercer County.

The El doesn't go there.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

It's really hard to say where this revolution in cell engineering is going to take Philly. I would think highest potential for tall buildings would be in West Philly. It would also balance the view of the skyline from the north.

The GoPuff kids will build a SuperTall on Market East before anything crazy tall gets built out there. Labspace needs are weird; and if they (GoPuff) don’t mess it up they could have a larger market cap than Comcast in like 5 years. We’ll see.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Londonee

The GoPuff kids will build a SuperTall on Market East before anything crazy tall gets built out there. Labspace needs are weird; and if they (GoPuff) don’t mess it up they could have a larger market cap than Comcast in like 5 years. We’ll see.

Is GoPuff public?

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

A lot of people who live outside of Center City work in the suburbs. When I lived there, I worked in Mercer County.

The El doesn't go there.

Of course that wouldn't apply to the people who work outside of the city and commute however this area now is one of the most booming and vibrant areas parking & traffic are expected in a thriving area.

Thats good!

[El Duderino]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Is GoPuff public?

Still private but i’d have to imagine they are heading towards an IPO soon enough. I’ve mentioned it before, but it would be nice if they completed their g-d corporate headquarters so it’s not just a wall of corrugated sheet metal. It’s honestly pretty embarrassing how crappy it looks up close, it almost makes one pine for the scooby doo-looking buildings it replaced that were always a hilarious entry into NoLibs.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Londonee

The GoPuff kids will build a SuperTall on Market East before anything crazy tall gets built out there. Labspace needs are weird; and if they (GoPuff) don’t mess it up they could have a larger market cap than Comcast in like 5 years. We’ll see.

We'll see. They seem attached to Northern Liberties/Callowhill for some reason. There's a version of Liberties Walk 2.0 floating around that involves an office building on 2nd Street. I've always suspected it was being spec'd for them. There's also a good amount of office space in the Lubert Adler Power Station redo and apparently it's already leased. I've thought that could be them as well. There could be a version of their growth that involves a sort of sprawling South Lake Union-type office district in the Callowhill zone between Spring Garden and Callowhill.