Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[Sheba]

...and now for something completely different

Dozens of thieves, including chronic offenders, were arrested in a shoplifting clampdown in Vancouver’s downtown core over the weekend.

In one brazen incident, a man and a woman stole 47 pairs of pants worth nearly $6,000 from a Robson Street clothing store on Friday.

A staff member called 911 and followed the suspects until police arrived and arrested the pair.

The man, a 44-year-old chronic shoplifter, was already in breach of five court orders for previous thefts, said police. The woman was also in violation of a court order that prohibited her from entering the store.

“This is a very big concern, not only for us… but we are hearing from people in the business community that not only are they losing thousands of dollars a day to thieves, but they also have workers who are fearful and afraid of coming to work because of the violent incidents they’ve seen,” said Vancouver Police Department spokesman Sgt. Steve Addison at a news briefing on Monday.

The weekend clampdown — which started Thursday until Sunday — was a response to a spike in violent thefts in the downtown core in recent years, said Addison.

...

In total, VPD arrested 32 people during the weekend initiative and recommended 71 new criminal charges. Nearly $18,000 worth of stolen goods were recovered.

Nearly half of the people arrested for shoplifting this weekend told police they planned to sell the stolen goods on the black market.

...

Earlier this year, Vancouver Police arrested 130 people and recovered about $37,000 worth of stolen goods during a month-long anti-shoplifting initiative called Project Arrow.

He said VPD has increased foot patrol and officers on bikes in areas of downtown Vancouver, particularly in the West End and Granville Street. That visible presence is meant to deter crime, but also to have officers nearby to respond if a crime does occur, Addison added.

...

[rofina]

Its amusing in the most perverted of ways to see the police and news repeat what few of us are saying over and over;

The weekend clampdown — which started Thursday until Sunday — was a response to a spike in violent thefts in the downtown core in recent years, said Addison.

Spike in violent thefts; that means its no business as usual if there is a spike. Downtown is much worse than before. Just another way to say so.

The man, a 44-year-old chronic shoplifter, was already in breach of five court orders for previous thefts, said police

And that, is another proof of the pareto principle I mentioned on the previous page.

Chronic shoplifter, with 5 court orders.

Are we toddlers or what? Obviously court orders don't work on this particular individual. And it would appear he is disproportionately responsible for theft DT.

Remove the bad apples. How is this controversial or novel to say?

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Sheba

...and now for something completely different

They need to install one-way turnstiles that prevent shoppers from leaving except past the cash register (like Canadian Tire has).

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by rofina

Its amusing in the most perverted of ways to see the police and news repeat what few of us are saying over and over;



Spike in violent thefts; that means its no business as usual if there is a spike. Downtown is much worse than before. Just another way to say so.



And that, is another proof of the pareto principle I mentioned on the previous page.

Chronic shoplifter, with 5 court orders.

Are we toddlers or what? Obviously court orders don't work on this particular individual. And it would appear he is disproportionately responsible for theft DT.

Remove the bad apples. How is this controversial or novel to say?

the criminals, the chronic ones, all of them, know that they can do whatever they want without any real consequence. Get arrested promise to show up in 6 months and oh guess what they don't show up and they have another 6 months to keep on stealing. It's pretty pathetic.

[whatnext]

LOL, the latest in a decades long stream of "Gastown's turning around, no really" articles over the last few decades:

‘Cautious optimism’ for Gastown comeback
KERRY GOLD
VANCOUVER
SPECIAL TO THE GLOBE AND MAIL
PUBLISHED OCTOBER 29, 2021

Gastown businesses are ready for a comeback.

In the past 18 months, Vancouver shoppers have disappeared from the area’s stores as remote workers and residents became reclusive inside their homes. At the same time, people living in crowded social housing have been forced onto the streets and there was a spike in vandalism and crime. Condo owners who want to sell have been waiting for the stalled market to turn around.

Now, there’s “cautious optimism,” says Walley Wargolet, executive director of the Gastown Business Improvement Society. Twenty shops and restaurants had closed in the past couple of years and now a couple of dozen have either opened or reopened. Microsoft has opened a new office on Water Street with 300 employees, Kit and Ace has reopened its clothing store in the same building and Kozak restaurant has taken over for Bauhaus Restaurant at 1 West Cordova. Bauhaus owner Uwe Boll has posted on social media about the horrors he witnessed before closing his restaurant in 2020, including his wife’s discovery of a dead body on the roof of her car. He referred to Gastown as “the epicentre of the disaster.”...

....Brock Worobel, who poured his savings into his condo at the Paris Block on West Hastings about eight years ago, says he would like to sell but the buyers aren’t there. He says several of his neighbours in the building have moved away and rented out their units. Mr. Worobel is not as positive that things will pick up soon enough for him to leave the area. He says part of the reason is the intentional concentration of social housing projects and more that are in the pipeline. Mr. Worobel, like others, believes that the Downtown Eastside plan that was approved in 2014, to build at least 60 per cent social housing and 40 per cent market rental, sans condos, has failed. An integrated and more diverse mix of people and incomes, he says, would have worked better for the neighbourhood as a whole.

“Having been down here for [almost] 10 years now, I’m not hopeful,” he says. “[Government leaders] haven’t learned from the past. People with substance use and who are homeless are mixed with criminals and they put them into this five block-by-five-block radius and expect things to be hunky dory. And then they turn a blind eye to it.”...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-est...-cautious-optimism-for-gastown-comeback/

[jollyburger]

VPD arrests suspect after windows smashed in West End

• Video Link

[Vin]

Violent weekend shoplifting spree leads to the arrest of 32 people: VPD
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/32-arrested-violent-shoplifting-vancouver

Of course some still see this as a mere "blown up perception"

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

I live in the DTES, so I see people suffering from psychosis on a regular basis. Generally they are 'harmless', (except potentially to themselves), but I acknowledge they can be noisy, frightening and disruptive. It's not new - they've been around for years, but with fewer places for them to go during the pandemic, and far fewer people out and about doing 'regular' things like eating out or shopping, it's more noticeable. I'm not aware that there is anywhere to detain them 'for their own good', unless they actually cause somebody else harm or carried out a crime that had a good chance of prosecution (and even then, they would usually be released once the psychotic episode has passed).

And you're being disingenuous - locked up in a psychiatric unit (if there were more spaces than there are now) is not significantly different from locked up in a detention centre or jail. You want them off the streets and locked up.

I think we need more housing with more wrap-around support, including a safe (untainted) drug supply to people who are addicted. That's slowly happening, but in the meantime their presence is a reality I acknowledge. The new mental health rehab unit that opened this week is an example of how things might improve over time, but it only has 11 additional beds, which isn't enough. I think there's also going to be unit as part of the new St Pauls.

Desensitization is a real thing. I can really tell.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

These two statements seem at odds. Do we have the money or don't we? Incarceration provides "housing" at significantly higher expense.


Coming from you, this is rich.

How is free housing cheaper than incarceration? When u can make an inmate work, how is this more expensive than letting the person roam free, and then provide free housing like a full studio unit for a criminal to do what he or she wants?

I do give data and stats. You just dont know how to interpret them, or simply refuse to see

[Klazu]

"Oh, but it's only few people claiming that crime is through the roof..."

Concern over crime remains a major issue in B.C. municipalities

In 1993, Republican party candidate Rudy Giuliani won the mayoral election in New York City. Four years earlier, Giuliani came very close to defeating Democratic party candidate David Dinkins. In his second campaign, Giuliani made it a point to claim that crime was rising across all boroughs.

The statistics that were available at the time suggested that the situation was not as dire as Giuliani described. In any case, Giuliani connected well in specific areas of the city to earn the win.

In less than a year, all B.C. municipalities will select their mayors and councils for the next four years. The buzzwords for Vancouver’s nascent political parties are all about hope. Progress. Livable. Better. While a neighbouring municipality is currently governed by a mayor and councillors belonging to the Safe Surrey Coalition, the emergence of a Giulliani-esque anti-crime party in Vancouver seems distant.

For the past few weeks across Metro Vancouver, social media users have been subjected to daily images of broken windows, discarded needles and ransacked vehicles. When Research Co. and Glacier Media asked British Columbians about the level of criminal activity in their community over the past four years, 44% say that it has increased, 40% think it has remained the same and only 4% claim it has decreased.

The numbers can appear troubling, as those saying crime is rising outnumber those who say it is declining by an 11-1 margin. The situation, however, is not significantly different from what we saw in November 2020, when 42% of British Columbians said crime was increasing and only 7% stated that it was decreasing. In Metro Vancouver, 41% of residents believe that crime has risen over the past four years. The perceptions are slightly lower in the Fraser Valley (39%) but higher in northern B.C. (44%), southern B.C. (53%) and on Vancouver Island (54%).

Across British Columbia, one in five residents (19%) say they were the victims of a crime involving the police (such as an assault or a car break-in) in their community. This is practically unchanged since 2020. So far, we have three statistics – perceptions, reported crime and bans on weapons – that did not go through severe fluctuations since 2020. The situation changes when we ask British Columbians if they fear becoming victims of crime in their community. In December 2020, 42% of the province’s residents felt this way “a great deal” or “a fair amount.” This month, the proportion rose by six points to 48%.

Last year, 68% of British Columbians said they would feel “very safe” or “moderately safe” walking alone in their neighbourhood after dark. This month, the proportion fell by five points to 63%.

Almost half of British Columbians (48%, up three points) believe addiction and mental health issues are to blame “a great deal” for the current situation regarding crime and public safety in their community, followed by gangs and the illegal drug trade (38%, unchanged).

Fewer residents point the finger primarily at poverty and inequality (31%, up five points), an inadequate court system (30%, up four points), lack of values and an improper education for youth (27%, up three points), bad economy and unemployment (20%, up one point), insufficient policing and a lack of resources to combat crime (20%, up four points) and immigrants and minorities (9%, unchanged).

Our survey shows that there are some segments of the population that could be moved by a municipal candidate’s stance on crime. Still, there is a need for caution. In urban areas, anyone trying to replicate the Giuliani strategy would face backlash from residents. British Columbians in 2021 are not New Yorkers in 1993. We are looking at mental health and addiction as the root causes of crime. Vilifying a group for its choices, which worked brilliantly as a political strategy for Giuliani, is not something a mayoral candidate would be able to replicate in British Columbia.

https://biv.com/article/2021/11/concern-over-crime-remains-major-issue-bc-municipalities

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Vin

How is free housing cheaper than incarceration? When u can make an inmate work, how is this more expensive than letting the person roam free, and then provide free housing like a full studio unit for a criminal to do what he or she wants?

I do give data and stats. You just dont know how to interpret them, or simply refuse to see

Please provide the statistics that show housing is cheaper than the cost of incarceration, which I provided. I will be helpful and provide some research that shows the exact opposite:

... Institutional responses (jails, hospitals, etc.) cost $66,000-$120,000 annually, emergency shelters cost $13,000-$42,000 annually whereas supportive and transitional housing cost $13,000-$18,000 and affordable housing without supports was a mere $5,000-$8,000.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Please provide the statistics that show housing is cheaper than the cost of incarceration, which I provided. I will be helpful and provide some research that shows the exact opposite:

Not disputing that incarceration is expensive but those figures are from 1998-1999. Sure prison costs might have gone up but I if you actually want to compare costs it seems unfair to just list operating costs and not include all the capital investment for new social housing. Or spending $90 a year on opioid supplies in the province.

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news...-opioid-treatment-tops-90-million-a-year

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Not disputing that incarceration is expensive but those figures are from 1998-1999. Sure prison costs might have gone up but I if you actually want to compare costs it seems unfair to just list operating costs and not include all the capital investment for new social housing. Or spending $90 a year on opioid supplies in the province.

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news...-opioid-treatment-tops-90-million-a-year

Here's a more recent and Canadian source. It's much less expensive to provide housing for the homeless than to provide supports and hospital services while they're homeless. Incarcerating somebody in the penal system is the most expensive option.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Desensitization is a real thing. I can really tell.

Sure it is Vin. As are insensitivity and ignorance.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

Violent weekend shoplifting spree leads to the arrest of 32 people: VPD
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/32-arrested-violent-shoplifting-vancouver

Of course some still see this as a mere "blown up perception"

Isn't this what you wanted to happen?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

Desensitization is a real thing. I can really tell.

Is this a Trump quote?

[rofina]

Originally Posted by rofina

Its amusing in the most perverted of ways to see the police and news repeat what few of us are saying over and over;



Spike in violent thefts; that means its no business as usual if there is a spike. Downtown is much worse than before. Just another way to say so.



And that, is another proof of the pareto principle I mentioned on the previous page.

Chronic shoplifter, with 5 court orders.

Are we toddlers or what? Obviously court orders don't work on this particular individual. And it would appear he is disproportionately responsible for theft DT.

Remove the bad apples. How is this controversial or novel to say?

You cant make this up.

Man arrested for stealing 47 yoga pants has struck again with another theft
https://vancouversun.com/news/crime/man-...ants-has-struck-again-with-another-theft

Three days after he was arrested for stealing 47 pairs of yoga pants from a store in downtown Vancouver , a chronic shoplifter is back in police custody.

He has a lengthy criminal history, with 103 prior criminal convictions, including 38 for theft.

There have been 844 violent shoplifting cases in Vancouver between Jan. 1 and Oct. 15, a 12 per cent jump from last year and a 550 per cent increase from 2019.

Our criminal justice system is a farce.

I would love for anyone here to articulate how this individual is in fact the victim in this story.

I don't even blame this guy; his actions are repercussion free. Why would he ever change? It would be illogical to.

This is so frustrating and asinine, its like were just collectively pretending like incentives don't matter.

[MIPS]

We could always hold out for Vigilantism to rise. You know eventually regardless of police suggestion to let them deal with it either insurance will stop paying out for petty losses or stores will just stop caring and begin clubbing shoplifters like it's a bad day at the golf course.

[Vin]

B.C. man who pleaded guilty to Metro Vancouver Masonic hall arsons sentenced to 40 months in jail
https://globalnews.ca/news/8358815/bc-masonic-hall-arsons-sentencing/

This shows how drug/alcohol abuse can be linked to crimes committed across town.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by rofina

Our criminal justice system is a farce.

I would love for anyone here to articulate how this individual is in fact the victim in this story.

Under the criminal code, this individual could be fined $2,000 or imprisoned for up to six months. Unfortunately it isn't worth anyone's time to try to get a conviction so he gets off scot free. Many stores also tell their employees to not even confront shoplifters. A large chain like lululemon will simply write it off as inventory shortage (which is a drop in the bucket for them) and small stores may make an insurance claim. The criminal justice system is not a farce; the incentives for anyone to crack down on petty theft just aren't there.

Suggesting that people sympathize with him is disingenuous.