DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by RyanD

Construction permits for Steel House were filed on 11/01!

Yes! Thanks for the update on this Ryan, you sexy bitch.

[TakeFive]

Thanks for the reminder

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

YouTube

That does seem to emulate a lot of the 16th Street Mall which I sort of suggested; but I'm actually going for something different.

Tempe took their inspiration from Portland's great Streetcar success. Through their (smaller) downtown the Streetcar will travel along two different streets, 3 blocks apart (noted as a 3 minute walk). In one direction it goes to the Hayden Ferry-lake area with all its new shiny office buildings and thousands of workers. In the other direction it will travel along the edge of ASU and its 55,000 students by Gammage Performing Arts to a more residential area. It, in effect, connects four different neighborhoods with only 3 miles of track. I assume nobody here cares about Tempe but it was their strategy and concept I liked.

As my thinking evolved, the strategy of connecting different neighborhoods - downtown and RiN0 - was the objective with fascinating potential.

Considering the cost and presence of overhead wires for a streetcar is what suggested some sort of shuttle bus is the much wiser choice. Given the trend to battery operated buses, maybe a little nicer bus (like the Proterra EV's that Boulder recently acquired) would fit the objective better?

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by twister244

They are some of the nicest gas stations out there (assuming Denver gets the newer models). I'm all for supporting local businesses, etc, but gas stations in Denver don't hold a dime to QTs.

Also, oddly, really nice restrooms for a gas station.

Yes, the restrooms are nice. I've always thought of QT as an updated, urban version of nicer truck stops.

Originally Posted by COtoOC

Eh. I've been in Quick Trips a long time ago in KC. These days, I might get gas there once open, but these places sell nothing I buy inside. I gave up cigarettes, hot dogs, soda and candy a long time ago

I can identify with that.

QT does have an efficient layout for getting gas and they intentionally price their gas a penny or two below what would be 7-Eleven in Denver. You have to have Costco or Sams Club membership to save another 5 to 10 cents on gas. I originally got a 'Costco credit card' so I could get an additional 5 percent cash back at end of the year when I was doing rideshare.

Originally Posted by COtoOC

Thanks for the update! I've been in Eastbridge for 16 years and am happy with how the old airport is turning out. And finally... fill in the hole at CPB/MLK!

Admittedly, I'd have to spend a day driving Central Park 'hood to know my way. But with respect to Eastbridge (which I'm somewhat familiar with) it seems to have more of an organic feel.

[Arapahoe]

Greyhound, Amacon, 1900 Lawrence

• Ken's favorite journalist at DBJ is reporting that Golub/Rockfeller plans to break ground on their two 400ft tower project at the former Greyhound station in the first half of 2023. This lines up pretty well with the demolition permits they recently filed with the city for old greyhound station -- once issued, demolition and site prep is expected to take 6 months and it will probably take a year just to get the plans finalized, approved and permitted.
  
• 1900 Lawrence by Riverside (right next to the Greyhound) reiterated they are still planning ground breaking for Q1 of next year and they have increased the height of that tower by two stories.
  
• With Amacon starting their dual tower project this year, this means FIVE towers in the 400ft range that will all be overlapping with construction.

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/...e-changes-roundup-covid-development.html

Should be fun to watch for the urban dwellers out there if it materializes! (always a big IF)

[SirLucasTheGreat]

With the huge COVID treatment news this morning, maybe things will be looking somewhat closer to normal downtown when those towers are finished but I imagine work from home will be a permanent perk for some people.

[wong21fr]

Here's to remaining hopeful on 1900 Arapahoe and Amacon. I'd love to see both of those projects U/C early next year.

So who wants to take a bet on which antiquated CBD office tower will be the first conversion project to residential? I'll go with 621 17th Street.

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

With the huge COVID treatment news this morning, maybe things will be looking somewhat closer to normal downtown when those towers are finished but I imagine work from home will be a permanent perk for some people.

It turned into permanent for me. I live in Central Park/work in Lone Tree. It was a BRUTAL commute! I spent at least 8 hours per week in my car.

Starting January, my team will meet in the office once per month and move to hotel desks. And since we all live in Denver, relatively near one another, we already meet for lunch at a restaurant once per month. It's a total win for me... almost worth going through a pandemic

I get 8 hours per week of life back and only put 5K miles on my car in the past year. But hopefully those skyscrapers downtown fill back up. It still seems rather dead to me. I honestly wouldn't mind being in the office if it were downtown. It's all about the commute for me.

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Yes, the restrooms are nice. I've always thought of QT as an updated, urban version of nicer truck stops.


I can identify with that.

QT does have an efficient layout for getting gas and they intentionally price their gas a penny or two below what would be 7-Eleven in Denver. You have to have Costco or Sams Club membership to save another 5 to 10 cents on gas. I originally got a 'Costco credit card' so I could get an additional 5 percent cash back at end of the year when I was doing rideshare.


Admittedly, I'd have to spend a day driving Central Park 'hood to know my way. But with respect to Eastbridge (which I'm somewhat familiar with) it seems to have more of an organic feel.

Generally, yes, more organic. I walk to the Stanley all the time, run into neighbors there.... support beer

OTs are more truck stop like for sure. In 2019, we were driving from Tampa to Miami and stopped at a new WaWa (apparently they just expanded from the NE down to FL) and it reminded me of a QT, and had fresh sandwiches and fruit. Not a bad stop for a road trip.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Yes! Thanks for the update on this Ryan, you sexy bitch.

Your kindness knows no bounds!!

Originally Posted by COtoOC

It turned into permanent for me.

Same! I was commuting 40 hours a month from downtown to the tech center. WFH has saved my sanity, until Union Station started doing whatever it's doing right now. I feel like I have more of my life back, especially during dark season starting next week and I don't have to commute in the dark anymore which is the best.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by COtoOC

Generally, yes, more organic. I walk to the Stanley all the time, run into neighbors there.... support beer

I get the organic feel with the Stanley, but let's admit that the #1 way that people get there is by pouring the family into their high-end SUV and driving down there. I was talking to one of the Stanley owners and they said that, unfortunately, finding a way to increase parking was a huge concern of theirs. Though they are excited for the hundreds of new apartment units going in just south- that should net a big increase in pedestrian traffic both to the the Stanley and the Montview corridor.

It's great that you can walk to a ton of independent restaurants located in a single building, but I would argue that's it put more people into cars than out of them being on the edge of Central Park (which is no knock on the Stanley, they have to work with what they have). Heck, I've tried to convince my wife to move south of I-70 but have failed thus far due to 1) the school location argument and 2) she is convinced that the plots are smaller south of I-70.

[The Dirt]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Here's to remaining hopeful on 1900 Arapahoe and Amacon. I'd love to see both of those projects U/C early next year.

So who wants to take a bet on which antiquated CBD office tower will be the first conversion project to residential? I'll go with 621 17th Street.

My money is on 700 17th St. The floor plans are tiny (9,350 sf unfinished) and the ceilings are low for modern typical office spaces. You could probably fit 4-6 units per floor, which means that less plumbing needs to be added than buildings with larger floor areas.

[TakeFive]

Source

Often used to describe the stock market when it's "not too hot and not too cold"

It's the Goldilocks factor

"There's a Goldilocks factor: The floor plate can't be too small, and it can't be too big," said Kristina Garcia, a researcher with the real estate brokerage Cushman Wakefield, using an industry term for the leasable space on a given floor of a high-rise office tower. "There's limiting factors to why adaptive reuse hasn't happened as much."

According to Strachan Forgan, an architect who works downtown at 255 California St:

Forgan, who both works on office-to-housing conversions and struggles to find employees who can find affordable housing to work at his firm, said it's too difficult to make happen.

"It almost takes the stars to align," he said. "It's a unique set of circumstances that makes sense. So that's why it is relatively rare."

Or to state the obvious...

Gensler, the architectural firm, recently concluded after a study of building stock in Calgary, Alberta, that "the worse the office building, the better candidate it is for conversion to residential," particularly in a city where the office vacancy rate is at a stunning 32 percent. Typically, that means that older and often more run-down buildings are ripe for conversion.

It ain't easy
Nobody said it was easy.

Two challenges; 1st is the architectural changes; 2nd is can it make economic sense.

Good guess The Dirt's points are well taken.

Also obvious is that hotels would be the much easier conversion due to all the bathrooms. You could tear down walls between rooms to have a two-bath unit.

[Sam Hill]

Today I noticed a big ol hole has been excavated at 17th and Clarkson. Anybody know what’s being built there?

[DenverInfill]

That's Corum Real Estate's 777 E. 17th Avenue project; 132-unit, 5-story apartments.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

The federal infrastructure bill passed. Maybe now we will get the Front Range Passenger Rail and the rest of FasTracks

[Sam Hill]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

That's Corum Real Estate's 777 E. 17th Avenue project; 132-unit, 5-story apartments.

Interesting. Looks quality.

[Sam Hill]

So i’ve been conducting an informal crane census as I’ve driven around town in recent weeks. All along, there have been 20-ish easy ones to count - like the 8 in RiNo and the 3 in Arapahoe Square, etc. But there are many others that have a lower profile that are easy to miss, like the few along Santa Fe and the few down on south Broadway. And how about those couple on the Denver side of DTC? Should we count those despite their suburban location?

Anyway, I’m guessing there are at least 30 tower cranes across town right now. I’m guessing there are plenty I have yet to discover. What about Colorado Blvd? What about the west side (Federal, Sheridan)? What about those low-profile ones tucked down into neighborhoods - like that one on 13th and Sherman?

I’m wondering if, between us all, with our in-depth knowledge of our own hoods and commutes, we can piece together a crane census.

[laniroj]

[QUOTE=RyanD;9442265]Construction permits for Steel House were filed on 11/01!

https://denverinfill.com/2021/11/site-prep-underway-for-steel-house.html

I am really impressed with this one. It's a good modern take on traditional warehouse design from 100 years ago. Really sharp and wish much more of RiNo looked as good as this!

[i4isoar]

A little late to the conversation, but I'm happy to hear the news from the Springs, and that they'll be getting a "new tallest" for the first time in 30+ years. I wonder if this is just the start of a high-rise boom down there. For being such a large city (nearly half a million people within city limits), I always found the Springs' downtown to look rather unimpressive (apart from having Pikes Peak in the background). Granted, it's because of how spread out they are, but I hope we start seeing a trend of more people living downtown.

Also, thanks for the updates on Denver and great to see the progress on X2, T3, 1 River North, and Flora. Finally some decent architecture. I'm also excited about the news on Amacon, 1900 Lawrence, and Greyhound. Now I'm just keeping my fingers crossed for 650 17th to round out the bunch.

Finally, I'm thrilled to hear the news about the infrastructure bill; this is something that's been long overdue.

[bulldurhamer]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

• Video Link

about these one way street conversions...

do you guys know that when you take away the one way street, it makes it virtually impossible for the pedestrian to cross the street if there's any kind of traffic at all. at least that's the case in rino where you've made walnut two ways and now crossing the street safely, in what's an extremely busy part of town, is nearly impossible. where is the consideration for the pedestrian? what are we doing here?




edited to add - if we're taking cars off of larimer, getting them off up in rino should take priority. that's got to be one of the most pedestrian dominated areas in the city now and only growing, and yet nothing is being done for the pedestrian of note. it's actually getting worse as they move away from the one way streets without providing more crossings. why not at least have traffic calming lights like they do on stout? anything all all. i'm telling you, crossing most of those arterial streets is scary as hell. i thought we were doing a vision zero thing. all they have done is make is even more dangerous.

i've noticed that you guys have added even more crossing time in recent years for pedestrians in the central business district, making it take forever to go three blocks by car. that's fine and all, except this is still happening in the middle of the night. there are no people there really, aside from the people sleeping there, and yet they have days to cross the street. meanwhile up in rino, you need a miracle to cross safely. and that's where the people actually are! so you have routed all traffic through walnut now going both ways, you have loads of drunk people and otherwise wandering around in the dark, and you have nowhere for them to cross. DISASTER waiting to happen. act now or get ready to see post sent everywhere when tragedy strikes, which it will if nothing is done.