DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[CONative]

Originally Posted by twister244

Hey man.... I promise - You will walk out of a QT for the first time and say "Wow Twister244 was right, this IS a damn good gas station I am happy to see land in Denver".

Just as a FYI, this location will be very large and will also house the QT Regional office for them. They plan to expand more in Colorado.

[CONative]

Many developments are in planning/UC stage in Central Park -- particularly the CP TOD.

Haters can hate, but Central Park will continue to grow and fill like any city "quasi-urban" neighborhood would that started from scratch in a huge 8 square mile area.

CP TOD has inked/late stage planning or UC on these developments on top of the Sprouts/small retail development already completed...
- Brookfield walk-up apartment building
- 4 story mixed-use office & residential building with ground retail
- Trammel Crow 301 unit, 4 story building
- Brookfield rental townhomes
- NE Denver housing income qualified building

In addition to what has already been said on here, there are more developments in CP
- 288 unit four story apt building at MLK/CP
- New 4-story hotel @ NE corner of 40th/CP
- SCL Health Medical office building (already UC) at 46th/CP
- Mixed use: SFR homes, THs, Apts with 2 acre park and 5 acre retail at SW corner 40th/CP (includes the Credit Union of Colorado)
- Credit Union of Colorado new main branch HQ's with drive-thru @ SW corner of 40th/CP
- 307 unit four story apt complex near NW corner of MLK/CP (planned retail at bottom)
- Natural grocers/small retail and drugstore at NW corner of MLK/CP
- 246 unit four story apt building near 56th/CP

There are some others that are more in early stages of pipeline/development than those mentioned above. As mentioned before, it will just take time to see the fill happen in CP. Never going to be a Capitol Hill, but definitely something similar to more non-center city neighborhoods like Washington Park (probably more dense than Wash Park though) with businesses and parks within walking distance for many, but still auto-centric to also draw folks from regional distances.


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[TakeFive]

I'm not sensing any imminent threats

Originally Posted by kemachs

I love Westwood - it's like a little slice of New Mexico here in Denver - but I can't help but wonder if the massive white-washing that's taken place in Sunnyside (and the rest of the Northside) is heading straight for that neighborhood as well. I'm a fan of Denverite and their reporting, but usually articles like this signal the transformative wave of gentrification, as investors start to gravitate - i.e. remember when River North actually had a nice mix of establishments, and wasn't just an extension of the Bro Corridor? Tennyson too - south of 44th, it has filled in/developed the way a lot of us urbanists would like to see, but you can't deny the old feel/authenticity of Berkeley has been disappearing in the process.

If you think about it virtually all of the gentrification is east of I-25 or north of Colfax.

Westwood is still a fairly gritty place. There's still deep poverty where newer 'arrivals' depend on the food pantry to feed their children. Higher crime level, etc. I probably drove down Morrison Road more than once before I decided to stop and look around. Some of the nicest people you could ever meet - but most of the urban masses are interested in other things and other parts of town is my guess.

[TakeFive]

Many may not realize how much influence this site has

and perhaps wong has more influence in NE Denver than anyone realized.



Courtesy City of Denver via The Denver Channel

Denver unveils Montbello Connector, free, on-demand ride-share service
Oct 30, 2021 By: Pattrik Perez - The Denver Channel

The Department of Transportation and Infrastructure unveiled Montbello Connector on Saturday at the Montbello Recreation Center.

"This is a groundbreaking opportunity. We are creating greater mobility, and we are combating climate change at the same time," Denver Mayor Michael B. Hancock said.

The pilot program, using three vehicles, will get people to and from their destinations within Montbello, including the Peoria station, like Uber and Lyft do — except Montbello Connector is free.

--------------------------------

Originally Posted by jbssfelix

The donuts are one thing...what really is a headscratcher to me is the onslaught of large national chain food and retail offerings that are in queue or recently built.

New: Taco Bell, Panda, Murphy Express, Enterprise Car Rental, etc
In Queue: In-n-Out, Quiktrip, Raising Cane's, Popeyes, Chili's

Is it the cost of land that's driving out smaller local players, or something I'm just not seeing altogether? I feel like with the half-decent density and high household income, it would drive more options into the neighborhood...

I agree with wong: "national retailers who are more in a first to market role" and are all 'credit tenants' and easy to deal with from the landlord's POV.

Panda is good. In-n-Out is good as is Popeyes but I like Raising Cane's.

Taught a friend a new trick recently. After picking her up at Sky Harbor we headed towards her place. As we got closer to home we both realized we were hungry so we pulled into Raising Canes. It was around 9:30 pm and there must have been at least 15 cars in line. We all tend to be creatures of habit, no? And drive-through's are great. I said "we are not getting in that line; I'll find a parking spot and we'll go inside to order." We were in and out in five minutes b/c nobody goes inside any more. Big time savor if you get off your 🞵🞵🞵 and walk a few steps.

Can we say "not for the timid or faint of heart?"

Originally Posted by Arapahoe

here's how much the Amacon Block 176 construction permit costs:

Application Fees
Building Construction Permit Fee $358,566.30
Affordable Housing Linkage Fee $849,650.13
TOTAL FEES: $1,208,216.43

and this does not include inspection fees

No problem, it was worth the wait

Originally Posted by Denver

Finally!

Construction Begins on T3 RiNo



https://milehighcre.com/construction-begins-on-t3-rino/

Well said; thanks for the effort; I agree

Originally Posted by CONative

Many developments are in planning/UC stage in Central Park -- particularly the CP TOD.

Haters can hate, but Central Park will continue to grow and fill like any city "quasi-urban" neighborhood would that started from scratch in a huge 8 square mile area.

[TakeFive]

Now What?

I'm going to blame it on RyanD; wait, no, I'll give credit to RyanD

https://denverurbanism.com/2017/03/come-take-a-ride-on-rtds-brand-new-r-line.html

After a hard right into the heart of Aurora, I noticed something completely new to Denver. The train was driving down the median of East Exposition Avenue. Wouldn’t this be a great concept for say, a streetcar line in Central Denver?

Yup, that Aurora City Center trip is more like a streetcar and why it should have been separate from the 'main line.'

One thing leads to another

which triggered my curiosity for how the new Tempe Streetcar Line was coming? Turns out they are now testing the 3 streetcars they've received (out of 6 that were ordered) towards going live Spring of 2022. BTW, cost for their 3-mile line is less than $200 million or about $65 million per mile - which sounds reasonable.

What else?
Tucson has a streetcar line; so does does Kansas City as examples.

What If
Denver created a streetcar line along Market street to (say) 24th street and back into downtown along Arapahoe Street?

But then
I recalled that Tempe's streetcar when it goes along iconic Mill Avenue will NOT have any overhead wires but will instead operate on battery power through that section.

Which got me to thinking

I also considered the likelihood and got an even better idea. Why not just duplicate the same battery operated shuttle buses used along the the 16th Street Mall? Heck, go along Market Street all the way out to 30th or even 34th street and then back into downtown along Arapahoe Street. These shuttle buses should have a green (neon) band of light along the top of the buses. That way someone a block away (especially at night) could say: "Look, I see a Greenie coming; let's hop on."

Consider that downtown will see more residential towers. It wouldn't surprise me if Golub's Greyhound block ends up as one big-🞵🞵🞵 residential development, maybe both apartments and condos. Such a shuttle bus route would be a great way to tie together RiNo to downtown. There is some (reportedly) cool retail areas in RiNo and the route would also be cool partly for its mixed-density experience.

[PLANSIT]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Which got me to thinking

• Video Link

[RyanD]

Construction permits for Steel House were filed on 11/01!

https://denverinfill.com/2021/11/site-prep-underway-for-steel-house.html

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Awesome news on Steel house! Kinda thought that Watershed would have happened given all of its prepandemic momentum but it is an uncertain time for office development.

Have the permits been issued for Amacon?

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

Have the permits been issued for Amacon?

It is in "Ready to Pay" status. So once the $1,208,216.43 fee is paid, it should get issued!

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by CONative

Just as a FYI, this location will be very large and will also house the QT Regional office for them. They plan to expand more in Colorado.

Eh. I've been in Quick Trips a long time ago in KC. These days, I might get gas there once open, but these places sell nothing I buy inside. I gave up cigarettes, hot dogs, soda and candy a long time ago

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by CONative

Many developments are in planning/UC stage in Central Park -- particularly the CP TOD.

Haters can hate, but Central Park will continue to grow and fill like any city "quasi-urban" neighborhood would that started from scratch in a huge 8 square mile area.

CP TOD has inked/late stage planning or UC on these developments on top of the Sprouts/small retail development already completed...
- Brookfield walk-up apartment building
- 4 story mixed-use office & residential building with ground retail
- Trammel Crow 301 unit, 4 story building
- Brookfield rental townhomes
- NE Denver housing income qualified building

In addition to what has already been said on here, there are more developments in CP
- 288 unit four story apt building at MLK/CP
- New 4-story hotel @ NE corner of 40th/CP
- SCL Health Medical office building (already UC) at 46th/CP
- Mixed use: SFR homes, THs, Apts with 2 acre park and 5 acre retail at SW corner 40th/CP (includes the Credit Union of Colorado)
- Credit Union of Colorado new main branch HQ's with drive-thru @ SW corner of 40th/CP
- 307 unit four story apt complex near NW corner of MLK/CP (planned retail at bottom)
- Natural grocers/small retail and drugstore at NW corner of MLK/CP
- 246 unit four story apt building near 56th/CP

There are some others that are more in early stages of pipeline/development than those mentioned above. As mentioned before, it will just take time to see the fill happen in CP. Never going to be a Capitol Hill, but definitely something similar to more non-center city neighborhoods like Washington Park (probably more dense than Wash Park though) with businesses and parks within walking distance for many, but still auto-centric to also draw folks from regional distances.


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Thanks for the update! I've been in Eastbridge for 16 years and am happy with how the old airport is turning out. And finally... fill in the hole at CPB/MLK!

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

Interesting about the Springs. Surprised that they haven't had many improvements to their skyline with their recent growth

If you thought DURA in Denver in the 60's and 70's was bad, go to C Springs. The downtown got totally levelled so they have a ton of infill to make up before these fancy vertical projects start happening. Maybe that time is now, but they have a whole lotta parking lot runway left...

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by RyanD

Construction permits for Steel House were filed on 11/01!

Yes! Thanks for the update on this Ryan, you 🞵🞵🞵🞵 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵.

[TakeFive]

Thanks for the reminder

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

YouTube

That does seem to emulate a lot of the 16th Street Mall which I sort of suggested; but I'm actually going for something different.

Tempe took their inspiration from Portland's great Streetcar success. Through their (smaller) downtown the Streetcar will travel along two different streets, 3 blocks apart (noted as a 3 minute walk). In one direction it goes to the Hayden Ferry-lake area with all its new shiny office buildings and thousands of workers. In the other direction it will travel along the edge of ASU and its 55,000 students by Gammage Performing Arts to a more residential area. It, in effect, connects four different neighborhoods with only 3 miles of track. I assume nobody here cares about Tempe but it was their strategy and concept I liked.

As my thinking evolved, the strategy of connecting different neighborhoods - downtown and RiN0 - was the objective with fascinating potential.

Considering the cost and presence of overhead wires for a streetcar is what suggested some sort of shuttle bus is the much wiser choice. Given the trend to battery operated buses, maybe a little nicer bus (like the Proterra EV's that Boulder recently acquired) would fit the objective better?

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by twister244

They are some of the nicest gas stations out there (assuming Denver gets the newer models). I'm all for supporting local businesses, etc, but gas stations in Denver don't hold a dime to QTs.

Also, oddly, really nice restrooms for a gas station.

Yes, the restrooms are nice. I've always thought of QT as an updated, urban version of nicer truck stops.

Originally Posted by COtoOC

Eh. I've been in Quick Trips a long time ago in KC. These days, I might get gas there once open, but these places sell nothing I buy inside. I gave up cigarettes, hot dogs, soda and candy a long time ago

I can identify with that.

QT does have an efficient layout for getting gas and they intentionally price their gas a penny or two below what would be 7-Eleven in Denver. You have to have Costco or Sams Club membership to save another 5 to 10 cents on gas. I originally got a 'Costco credit card' so I could get an additional 5 percent cash back at end of the year when I was doing rideshare.

Originally Posted by COtoOC

Thanks for the update! I've been in Eastbridge for 16 years and am happy with how the old airport is turning out. And finally... fill in the hole at CPB/MLK!

Admittedly, I'd have to spend a day driving Central Park 'hood to know my way. But with respect to Eastbridge (which I'm somewhat familiar with) it seems to have more of an organic feel.

[Arapahoe]

Greyhound, Amacon, 1900 Lawrence

• Ken's favorite journalist at DBJ is reporting that Golub/Rockfeller plans to break ground on their two 400ft tower project at the former Greyhound station in the first half of 2023. This lines up pretty well with the demolition permits they recently filed with the city for old greyhound station -- once issued, demolition and site prep is expected to take 6 months and it will probably take a year just to get the plans finalized, approved and permitted.
  
• 1900 Lawrence by Riverside (right next to the Greyhound) reiterated they are still planning ground breaking for Q1 of next year and they have increased the height of that tower by two stories.
  
• With Amacon starting their dual tower project this year, this means FIVE towers in the 400ft range that will all be overlapping with construction.

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/...e-changes-roundup-covid-development.html

Should be fun to watch for the urban dwellers out there if it materializes! (always a big IF)

[SirLucasTheGreat]

With the huge COVID treatment news this morning, maybe things will be looking somewhat closer to normal downtown when those towers are finished but I imagine work from home will be a permanent perk for some people.

[wong21fr]

Here's to remaining hopeful on 1900 Arapahoe and Amacon. I'd love to see both of those projects U/C early next year.

So who wants to take a bet on which antiquated CBD office tower will be the first conversion project to residential? I'll go with 621 17th Street.

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

With the huge COVID treatment news this morning, maybe things will be looking somewhat closer to normal downtown when those towers are finished but I imagine work from home will be a permanent perk for some people.

It turned into permanent for me. I live in Central Park/work in Lone Tree. It was a BRUTAL commute! I spent at least 8 hours per week in my car.

Starting January, my team will meet in the office once per month and move to hotel desks. And since we all live in Denver, relatively near one another, we already meet for lunch at a restaurant once per month. It's a total win for me... almost worth going through a pandemic

I get 8 hours per week of life back and only put 5K miles on my car in the past year. But hopefully those skyscrapers downtown fill back up. It still seems rather dead to me. I honestly wouldn't mind being in the office if it were downtown. It's all about the commute for me.

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Yes, the restrooms are nice. I've always thought of QT as an updated, urban version of nicer truck stops.


I can identify with that.

QT does have an efficient layout for getting gas and they intentionally price their gas a penny or two below what would be 7-Eleven in Denver. You have to have Costco or Sams Club membership to save another 5 to 10 cents on gas. I originally got a 'Costco credit card' so I could get an additional 5 percent cash back at end of the year when I was doing rideshare.


Admittedly, I'd have to spend a day driving Central Park 'hood to know my way. But with respect to Eastbridge (which I'm somewhat familiar with) it seems to have more of an organic feel.

Generally, yes, more organic. I walk to the Stanley all the time, run into neighbors there.... support beer

OTs are more truck stop like for sure. In 2019, we were driving from Tampa to Miami and stopped at a new WaWa (apparently they just expanded from the NE down to FL) and it reminded me of a QT, and had fresh sandwiches and fruit. Not a bad stop for a road trip.