Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[rofina]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The highlighted mindset is the dominant one (or at least it's extremely influential) in pretty much every major city in North America.

It's true in cities much worse off than Vancouver and it is how it will eventually play out in those cities that haven't been "hit" yet.

This is what I find so worrying.

I find the leaders and the civic apparatus completely unable to pivot and uptake information.

I'm running around screaming in these threads because I have put at least a couple years in the trenches to see this inability act first hand.

This is a deep rooted problem and its going to take something monumental to actually change the trend from what it is.

I personally don't want to see another decade of degradation before we step in to offer meaningful help to people that clearly need it.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rofina

This is what I find so worrying.

I find the leaders and the civic apparatus completely unable to pivot and uptake information.

I'm running around screaming in these threads because I have put at least a couple years in the trenches to see this inability act first hand.

This is a deep rooted problem and its going to take something monumental to actually change the trend from what it is.

I personally don't want to see another decade of degradation before we step in to offer meaningful help to people that clearly need it.

I think that as a civilization we've really prioritized building compassionate societies for the past couple of generations. I think what we've built is quite imperfect, but that doesn't take away from the fact that that's been our priority.

What that means I think is that we've pretty much lost the art of "tough love" at the societal level.

This applies to drug addicts and the (problematically) mentally ill as much as it does to common criminals I'd say.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think that as a civilization we've really prioritized building compassionate societies for the past couple of generations. I think what we've built is quite imperfect, but that doesn't take away from the fact that that's been our priority.

What that means I think is that we've pretty much lost the art of "tough love" at the societal level.

This applies to drug addicts and the (problematically) mentally ill as much as it does to common criminals I'd say.

I completely agree. Couple this with polarization and its a recipe for disaster.

This thread is proof, folks seem to think only 2 options exist, endless generosity or locking everyone up.
If I comment about not wanting to only double down on harm prevention, it must mean I just want to lock every homeless person up and throw away the key.

Its a preposterous way to view issues that have miles and miles of nuance between both extremes, and worse, this thinking has taken over more than just internet forums.

I don't much care if its the left or right that comes up with the most sensible policies to better the crisis, I just care that someone does.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rofina

I completely agree. Couple this with polarization and its a recipe for disaster.

This thread is proof, folks seem to think only 2 options exist, endless generosity or locking everyone up.
If I comment about not wanting to only double down on harm prevention, it must mean I just want to lock every homeless person up and throw away the key.

Its a preposterous way to view issues that have miles and miles of nuance between both extremes, and worse, this thinking has taken over more than just internet forums.

I don't much care if its the left or right that comes up with the most sensible policies to better the crisis, I just care that someone does.

Apply this logic to (violent) crime and things get really scary real fast.

On a collective and societal level, I don't think that in 2021 we're psychologically set up at all to deal with things effectively if ever they were to get really bad.

So let's just pray they won't get really bad, OK?

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think that as a civilization we've really prioritized building compassionate societies for the past couple of generations. I think what we've built is quite imperfect, but that doesn't take away from the fact that that's been our priority.

What that means I think is that we've pretty much lost the art of "tough love" at the societal level.

This applies to drug addicts and the (problematically) mentally ill as much as it does to common criminals I'd say.

We can see how this "soft love" has given way to abuse by groups and individuals, leading to all kinds of rights that people are seeking. That also explains why the West is seeing its decline in so many ways, especially these couple of years when many countries are leading in the number of Covid deaths around the world. As a society, the family, religious orders including the church, as well as government bodies, used to be the beacons when it came to issues relating to morality, crime and punishment, lawlessness, etc. With the all too liberal attitudes of today, we see the collapse of such institutions in dealing with problem individuals. The lax attitude towards drug usage certainly makes it much much worse. More potent drugs of today are destroying more lives (and brains too) and cause more social problems, and that is slowly draining the society into its final and inevitable collapse. "Tough love" has to be brought back: otherwise it simply means society doesn't give a damn anymore.

[Vin]

We are Number 1!!


Vancouver ranked the #1 "rattiest" city in BC for the fifth year in a row
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-rattiest-city-bc-2021

It certainly reflects the quality of life people are living here.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

We are Number 1!!


Vancouver ranked the #1 "rattiest" city in BC for the fifth year in a row
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-rattiest-city-bc-2021

It certainly reflects the quality of life people are living here.

So wait - you mean the municipality with the greatest number of homes, and the largest amount of commercial space in BC saw the greatest number of treatments (by municipality) by a pest control company?

[SeymourDrake]

Originally Posted by Changing City

So wait - you mean the municipality with the greatest number of homes, and the largest amount of commercial space in BC saw the greatest number of treatments (by municipality) by a pest control company?

This is what i hate about the media. They can take literally any idea and twist into a negative. Then it gets added to a thread that has it's own agenda. Then all of a sudden it's trending on twitter.

You want Rats, check out NYC. I think we need to form our own team.

• Video Link

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by rofina

What does that actually mean on the daily;

1. Very noticeable increase in homelessness. Expect to see most any undercover doorway, or vacant storefront to have someone sleeping in it.

2. Very noticeable increase in mental health issues. If you walk around DT for an afternoon there is nearly no chance that you wont come across 2 or 3 people screaming at dragons and sky demons. This can be unsettling since the folks are clearly not in the right state of mind.

3. Very noticeable degradation of the public realm. Sidewalks are not maintained. Garbage bins overflowing. Garbage on sidewalks and street gutters. Again; not everywhere all the time, and not in heaps. But much worse than years before, I personally regarded Vancouver as a very clean and tidy City, no longer.

4. Very noticeable increase in human feces and urine. The smells Downtown are simply not pleasant, and you get hit in the face with a strong urine smell far too often. See #1 and 2 for reasons why.

5. Different type of street person has moved in. Being local I'm familiar with mental health issues, the regular street folks we have had in Vancouver for decades. The last few years we have a new element that's moved in; younger, able bodied, no easily perceptible mental health issues. Best way I can describe it; slightly more criminal looking element. I notice this very much more now on Granville, and particularly the South End of DT/Yaletown. These are the groups that have me taking headphones out and paying attention to my surroundings.

5. Pandemic/Labor Market/ Not unique to Vancouver - DT is not very alive afterhours anymore. Early closures, under staffing forced. Many closures and empty store fronts, though many already rebuilding too. I'm sure this part will turn around with a hopeful recovery from Covid.

This is all highly exaggerated. I am downtown every day.

The situation is worse than pre-Covid, yes. We need to focus more political and social will on resolving these problems. But, as per many comments in this thread, the panicked tone just doesn’t ring true.

[Zepfancouver]

The view out my window last night at 8:36pm.
Posted it on reddit last night Vancouver police say city averaging 4 random assaults per day. Nearly one tonight.

• Video Link

[giallo]

^ Jeez. That dude is in some drugged-out psychosis. Whether he's committing a crime or not, the police should be called for the safety of himself and others.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by giallo

^ Jeez. That dude is in some drugged-out psychosis. Whether he's committing a crime or not, the police should be called for the safety of himself and others.

They called, not a high priority apparently.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by giallo

^ Jeez. That dude is in some drugged-out psychosis. Whether he's committing a crime or not, the police should be called for the safety of himself and others.

Crazies with weapons, screaming are pretty standard fare downtown. Cue the bleeding hearts who will paint them as “ poor unfortunate victims”.

[SpongeG]

I just saw that on CTV news, one of the top stories with a full report of other residents talking about broken windows, etc., and how awful it is getting, and the police will do nothing.

[Zepfancouver]

Was contacted...
'Hi Zep - it's St John (Sinjin) from CTV. Saw the video you posted - the man swinging a stick - that shopper sure looked frightened. I'd like to talk to you about it - another incident in Vancouver. I'm working on it for today's news'

[jollyburger]

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/caught-on-camera-stranger-chases-shopper-with-rod-in-vancouver-1.5649867

[rofina]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

This is all highly exaggerated. I am downtown every day.

The situation is worse than pre-Covid, yes. We need to focus more political and social will on resolving these problems. But, as per many comments in this thread, the panicked tone just doesn’t ring true.

I don't know if being Downtown is the qualifier here; I'm downtown 4 days a week and that's my experience.

Please share your account, I'm specifically curious how my account is an exaggeration, yet you acknowledge were worse than pre-Covid. How does that circle square?

I genuinely don't understand how we (the collective) no longer share the same view on reality, and see the clear urgency in situations like this.

This is not "business as usual."

‘Alarming’: Vancouver police say city averaging 4 random assaults per day

https://globalnews.ca/news/8285570/vancouver-police-city-random-assaults/

Vancouver police are reporting what they call an “alarming” uptick in unprovoked stranger attacks amounting to four random assaults per day over the last year.

In September, Vancouver police said they were redeploying more officers in the downtown core amid increasing concerns from residents and businesses about public safety.

Do we figure the "concerns from residents and business about public safety" are also just exaggerations? How many complaints do you think the VPD must have received and how much pressure to actually announce a redeployment of additional forces DT?

[Sheba]

It's not just downtown Vancouver - Kelowna business owner frustrated by onslaught of crime

Andre Blanleil has owned businesses across B.C. for decades and has seen countless changes, both good and bad.

However, he says, nothing has been as adverse as the escalation of petty crime in the last six to eight months.

...

Offering a personal example, Blanleil said he found the person who stole a phone from his shop, and when the RCMP was told, little could be done. Charges aren’t going ahead, Blanleil said.

“Crown counsel won’t approve charges. But just turning a blind eye is not right either,” he said. “It’s extremely frustrating.”

Blanleil thinks the issue has to do with the drug-entrenched street population, adding the caveat that not all homeless people are the problem.

Treatment facilities, both long and short term, he said, are needed as soon as possible.

...

RCMP Supt. Kara Triance recently held a press conference about an unrelated crime but said the RCMP is indeed in a catch and release pattern with a number of repeat offenders.

“The police are left between the health-care system, which is burdened by the constraints that it has, and the justice system, where there are a lot of restrictions and increasingly closed doors of remand centres that are full of policies and directives that I believe are important, and modernizing our justice system, but leaving individuals at large in their community,” Triance said.

...

[rofina]

Originally Posted by Sheba

It's not just downtown Vancouver - Kelowna business owner frustrated by onslaught of crime

“The police are left between the health-care system, which is burdened by the constraints that it has, and the justice system, where there are a lot of restrictions and increasingly closed doors of remand centres that are full of policies and directives that I believe are important, and modernizing our justice system, but leaving individuals at large in their community,” Triance said.

What a polite way to say we have a revolving door policy. Who does this serve?

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by rofina

What a polite way to say we have a revolving door policy. Who does this serve?

I'm not sure ramping up incarceration would be sustainable, nor cheap.