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  #121  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2021, 1:55 PM
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I know someone who lives there. They absolutely love it. Empty nesters who's kids and grandkids live in orleans so they are close to family. They are boaters so they have walking access to the marina, the have walking access to Petrie Island and will soon have an LRT station. For them, the development is excellent.

Not everyone wants to wear birkenstocks and sip 10$ coffee's while strolling down bank street shopping for oat bar soap. (humour-not meant to be a slight)

I think some criticisms of the development are warranted but the development is selling which means it has appeal. As for shops and cafes-they always come after the critical mass is in place-rarely if ever before.
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  #122  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2021, 6:35 PM
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I know someone who lives there. They absolutely love it. Empty nesters who's kids and grandkids live in orleans so they are close to family. They are boaters so they have walking access to the marina, the have walking access to Petrie Island and will soon have an LRT station. For them, the development is excellent.

Not everyone wants to wear birkenstocks and sip 10$ coffee's while strolling down bank street shopping for oat bar soap. (humour-not meant to be a slight)

I think some criticisms of the development are warranted but the development is selling which means it has appeal. As for shops and cafes-they always come after the critical mass is in place-rarely if ever before.
On the $10 coffee and development point, I think this ties into the Trim Station point you made too. While "urban" or "small town" Orleans along the Western half of St Joseph isn't easily accessible by walking, future residents in this community will be able to take the train and get off at Place D'Orleans, Convent Glen or Jeanne D'Arc Stations, which will put them a few minutes walk from different points along our "classic" mainstreet. If they commute or use the train often enough to get other places like downtown, they may have a pass to make those ad-hoc trips "free".

So while there may be local development eventially closer to Petrie Landing, I also see a lot of potential for Petrie Landing high rises and other higher density developments all over Orleans helping to drive a (hopefully positive) transformation of St Joseph. (I am thinking along the lines of Westboro or Wellington West)
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  #123  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2021, 11:56 AM
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On the $10 coffee and development point, I think this ties into the Trim Station point you made too. While "urban" or "small town" Orleans along the Western half of St Joseph isn't easily accessible by walking, future residents in this community will be able to take the train and get off at Place D'Orleans, Convent Glen or Jeanne D'Arc Stations, which will put them a few minutes walk from different points along our "classic" mainstreet. If they commute or use the train often enough to get other places like downtown, they may have a pass to make those ad-hoc trips "free".

So while there may be local development eventially closer to Petrie Landing, I also see a lot of potential for Petrie Landing high rises and other higher density developments all over Orleans helping to drive a (hopefully positive) transformation of St Joseph. (I am thinking along the lines of Westboro or Wellington West)
I agree. If this place is selling well then who are we to judge? The market will bare what it can.

What we need, is the city to straighten out what it's actually trying to do and force a hard connection to Trim station. It wouldn't just have to serve PL either... it can also service the beach.

I see once again in the news Baird? Blais? who cares? is trying to upload the 174 back to the province. I feel like that would be a helpful step and lighten the burden on the city financially.
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  #124  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2021, 2:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis View Post
I agree. If this place is selling well then who are we to judge? The market will bare what it can.

What we need, is the city to straighten out what it's actually trying to do and force a hard connection to Trim station. It wouldn't just have to serve PL either... it can also service the beach.

I see once again in the news Baird? Blais? who cares? is trying to upload the 174 back to the province. I feel like that would be a helpful step and lighten the burden on the city financially.
Could you tell me a bit more about what you mean by "hard connection to Trim?"

On the point about uploading the 174 to the province, I feel like the more real estate prices pressure people to move outside of Ottawa proper, to neighbouring communities like Clarence-Rockland in the East for cheaper or larger homes, the stronger the argument for widening and upgrading the 174. Ottawa doesn't have the same incentive to finance that expansion to service people outside the city, who aren't paying Ottawa property taxes, but the provincial government could take a broader and more comprehensive view like they do in the GTA.
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  #125  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2021, 2:54 PM
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I would prefer the province fund the Trim ped bridge extension to the north of the highway and proper GO style park and ride facilities than them uploading the 174 and upgrading the 174/17 to Rockland. We invested a $Billion to extend transit to Orleans. We want people stuck in traffic looking at trains flying a few feet away.
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  #126  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2021, 4:05 PM
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I would prefer the province fund the Trim ped bridge extension to the north of the highway and proper GO style park and ride facilities than them uploading the 174 and upgrading the 174/17 to Rockland. We invested a $Billion to extend transit to Orleans. We want people stuck in traffic looking at trains flying a few feet away.
Is 174/17 widening to rockland happening? For some reason I thought it was shelved or indefinitely delayed?
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  #127  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2021, 1:47 PM
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Is 174/17 widening to rockland happening? For some reason I thought it was shelved or indefinitely delayed?
Response on the Roads/Bridges projects/Issues thread:

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9441174&postcount=2312
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  #128  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2021, 6:28 PM
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Response on the Roads/Bridges projects/Issues thread:

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9441174&postcount=2312
Thanks for sharing that post. Personally I don't see it as an either/or situation. From my perspective we could accomplish both and if Clarence-Rockland/other Prescott and Russell residents want to drive to a Trim Park & Ride and then get an OC Transpo pass to take them the rest of the way, that at least will decrease congestion from Orleans to the central parts of Ottaws.

Uploading the 174 feels increasingly important and justified if growth in Prescott and Russell picks up (especially in Clarence-Rockland, given how close it is to Ottawa and Orleans) and we have a residential boom there to compensate for slow growth in Ottawa (or growth of denser housing that some people are not looking for).

Uploading the 174 will recognize that it serves a growing population outside of the Ottawa boundary. While Ottawa's borders are admittedly massive, land use and planning have contained sprawl somewhat and so it may just skip over into some of the exurbs like Clarence-Rockland, Kemptville and Arnprior.
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  #129  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2021, 6:55 PM
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I was thinking that surely there must be a 'back way' to Rockland, to push a 4-lane highway thru, but the City has allowed all this new development at the end of Trim, so you do a hard 90-degree turn south to weave thru that, down the sensitive Cardinal Creek bed, then another hard 90 east along Innes, with exit ramps at Canaan, St. Jean, Landry, and then re-connecting with the 2-lane road somewhere after Clarence?

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Originally Posted by Stacmon View Post
Thanks for sharing that post. Personally I don't see it as an either/or situation. From my perspective we could accomplish both and if Clarence-Rockland/other Prescott and Russell residents want to drive to a Trim Park & Ride and then get an OC Transpo pass to take them the rest of the way, that at least will decrease congestion from Orleans to the central parts of Ottaws.

Uploading the 174 feels increasingly important and justified if growth in Prescott and Russell picks up (especially in Clarence-Rockland, given how close it is to Ottawa and Orleans) and we have a residential boom there to compensate for slow growth in Ottawa (or growth of denser housing that some people are not looking for).

Uploading the 174 will recognize that it serves a growing population outside of the Ottawa boundary. While Ottawa's borders are admittedly massive, land use and planning have contained sprawl somewhat and so it may just skip over into some of the exurbs like Clarence-Rockland, Kemptville and Arnprior.
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  #130  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2021, 1:44 PM
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Wonder if the City of Ottawa could implement a toll on the 174 after Trim, forcing residents from outside Ottawa to choose between paying to take transit or using the highway. In that scenario, we would need to charge of the park-and-ride as well.
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  #131  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2021, 10:01 AM
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Wonder if the City of Ottawa could implement a toll on the 174 after Trim, forcing residents from outside Ottawa to choose between paying to take transit or using the highway. In that scenario, we would need to charge of the park-and-ride as well.
Personally, I hate tolls and wouldn't want to see a toll highway in the Ottawa area. Toll booths and verification can cause avoidable slow downs (though those have been significantly reduced through technology). It would also create a toll for someone in Eastern parts of Ottawa (e.g. Cumberland Village) going along the 174 to work or shop once they reach Trim road. (Theoretically, we could always exempt them from that toll by making tracking technology always give them free rides.)

Instead I think the uploading is preferred because it recognizes use of the asset by those outside of Ottawa and then takes it out of Ottawa's primary financial and maintenance responsibility. Since commuting from outside the city is a trend only likely to rise further if the cost of real estate keeps growing and intensification targets make new larger single family homes fairly rare here, the argument for "solving" the issue keeps getting stronger.

Your point is very valid that this could be a way to incentivize the behaviour we are looking for though. In part, the overall traffic situation could help discourage drivers instead.

Another way to reduce traffic would be for Clarence Rockland, OC Transpo or some other transit provider, to have regular bus routes leading from the communities just East of Ottawa to Trik station to access the train. Since I don't think OC Transpo even offers a route from Cumberland outside of rush hour, I don't think they would be likely to serve Clarence-Rockland though.
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  #132  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2021, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Stacmon View Post
Thanks for sharing that post. Personally I don't see it as an either/or situation. From my perspective we could accomplish both and if Clarence-Rockland/other Prescott and Russell residents want to drive to a Trim Park & Ride and then get an OC Transpo pass to take them the rest of the way, that at least will decrease congestion from Orleans to the central parts of Ottaws.
Probably not Russrll residents as it is a 30 minute drive from Russell to the Trim Rd. Park and Ride. They can drive to downtown Ottawa during rush hour in the same amount of time.
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  #133  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2021, 3:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Stacmon View Post
Could you tell me a bit more about what you mean by "hard connection to Trim?"

On the point about uploading the 174 to the province, I feel like the more real estate prices pressure people to move outside of Ottawa proper, to neighbouring communities like Clarence-Rockland in the East for cheaper or larger homes, the stronger the argument for widening and upgrading the 174. Ottawa doesn't have the same incentive to finance that expansion to service people outside the city, who aren't paying Ottawa property taxes, but the provincial government could take a broader and more comprehensive view like they do in the GTA.
I was speaking of a pedestrian bridge which I see they have started to make a move on as of the other day. That's good to see.
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  #134  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2021, 10:02 AM
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I was speaking of a pedestrian bridge which I see they have started to make a move on as of the other day. That's good to see.
Ah, perfect and good that you are already seeing the kind of work on it you were hoping to!
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  #135  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2022, 2:31 PM
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  #136  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2022, 5:29 PM
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What a terrible development. Architecture is fine, but complete lack of retail or proper park space, basic city services. Impossible to do anything without a car.
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  #137  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2022, 5:38 PM
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What a terrible development. Architecture is fine, but complete lack of retail or proper park space, basic city services. Impossible to do anything without a car.
I don't know...it kind of seems ideal for someone like my Mom. She would love the river views and would probably walk down the road to Petries Island quite often. I see far more value here than Frontier, or any of the mall redevelopments honestly.
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  #138  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2022, 6:26 PM
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What a terrible development. Architecture is fine, but complete lack of retail or proper park space, basic city services. Impossible to do anything without a car.
Sure its car oriented but its also high density and underground parking instead of vast above ground paved parking lot around each tower. as for park space, petrie island is next door. Its not perfect but its far from a terrible development especially within a suburb

Last edited by SL123; Apr 13, 2022 at 6:46 PM.
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  #139  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2022, 7:54 PM
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Yeah the only redeeming quality I can think of is that the parking is underground and not vast surface lots. I do hope they can figure out a way to make it easy/fast to walk to the LRT station as currently it's a jumbled mess on tiny sidewalks and highway crossings.
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  #140  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2022, 9:09 PM
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What a terrible development.
I like this way more than she sprawly curly-cue street low-density crap in Findlay Creek/Riverside South/Stittsnata/Farrhaven/Orleans
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