DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[The Dirt]

Ah yes, back when I lived in the neighborhood formerly known as St*pleton, that was my go-to, as well.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

I assume everyone knows that the bed bath and beyond relocated about a mile away on Colorado Blvd.

[The Dirt]

Since I'm an elitist downtown dweller, everything south of Alameda and east of Colorado may as well be Limon.

[Agent Orange]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

Since I'm an elitist downtown dweller, everything south of Alameda and east of Colorado may as well be Limon.

As a former downtown elitist, I bet you find yourself desperate enough to cross over to Glendale now and then. That 16th Street mini-Target and TJ Maxx just don't always get the job done.

And yes, I really hope we see some higher rise structures pop in in the BBB lot. Like SirLucas said, the Golden Triangle (we still haven't come up with a better name for his hood?) might provide some skyline extension. Would look great coming east down 6th.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

But... but... what about the farmer's market?

No way can I live w/o my farm-to-(home) market fresh food.

Originally Posted by wong21fr

2017. That hit hard for my shopping needs in decorating my suburban home with tasteful linens and curtains.

You just have to know how/where to shop.

Best sheets I've found in decades are the 'Hotel' brand. Walmart has them for $55. for the set. Costco charges $15-$20 more but you get four instead of two pillowcases and a 100-thread higher count. I do insist on sleeping on 100% cotton, preferably long staple cotton like Pima or Egyptian.

I got my Vera Wang towels at Kohls double discounted with my extra 30% off coupons.

I do have a fetish for quilts. I have 3 summer weight (for the desert) and 2 double-sided all season quilts. I managed to find all of them at Goodwill. Just scored a brand new one with fall colors to match the season - think Indian Corn.

------------------------
You many not realize how nice you could have it.

Originally Posted by The Dirt

Since I'm an elitist downtown dweller, everything south of Alameda and east of Colorado may as well be Limon.

....
Source

[TakeFive]

Urban Alert


Source

In deference to all my crazy-thinking urbanist friends it's worth acknowledging that RMI (formerly known as the Rocky Mountain Institute) has designed a NEW world-class ‘Induced Demand’ Calculator.

New ‘Induced Demand’ Calculator Shows Exactly How Much Driving Your City’s Highway Expansion Will Encourage
Oct 20, 2021 By Kea Wilson - Streetsblog USA

A groundbreaking new calculator gives advocates the tools they need to instantly show the real impacts of proposed highway expansions in their communities... Following the successful release of their Colorado Induced Demand calculator earlier this year, experts at nonprofit RMI were flooded with requests from advocates across the country who wanted a similar tool to model the impacts of new road projects in their own cities.

So they teamed up with Transportation for America, the National Resources Defense Council, and a consortium of other partners to create the State Highway Induced Frequency of Travel (SHIFT) Calculator, which draws on formulas sourced from decades of proven scientific literature to deliver detailed, community-specific induced demand forecasts with the click of a button.

"decades of proven scientific literature"


Source

Other than saying this is a bunch of contrived nonsense that can't even pass a smell test, I'll forego any rant.

------------------------
Putting on my NPR Weekender Hat

I've got a Simple Math Puzzle begging to be solved.

Driving along the new expanded '101' Pima Freeway in my neck of the woods was like turning on a light. All it took was some simple math.

For SOV's, adding the 5th lane on each side of the freeway effectively doubled the throughput capacity (does not include any additional exit/enter lane). You have one week to submit your entrees.

The winning entry receives a classic dinner for two at a non-historic landmark.


Source

[Arapahoe]

Originally Posted by Agent Orange

As a former downtown elitist, I bet you find yourself desperate enough to cross over to Glendale now and then. That 16th Street mini-Target and TJ Maxx just don't always get the job done.

so true, lol! You forgot to mention our bargain basement at Ross and elegant H&M. However, my last search for a pair of pants had me getting into my car and driving to Cherry Creek. TJMaxx is wiped out of men's inventory, Target doesn't really carry clothes, H&M requires that you wear everything skin-tight, and Ross is a 🞵🞵🞵🞵 shoot. So I paid $2 to park in an empty CC parking garage.

[The Dirt]

I don't think anyone has posted this yet


https://www.westfield-co.com/portfolio/development-portfolio/765-north-logan-street

765 North Logan Street
Denver, CO 80203

Purchased in 2017, this 0.5 acres development opportunity overlooks Governor's Park and is located between Seventh and Eighth avenues.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

People should be slapped for designing buildings like that. Glad for the infill but that's the sort of building that inspires one to become an arsonist.

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Urban Alert


Source

In deference to all my crazy-thinking urbanist friends it's worth acknowledging that RMI (formerly known as the Rocky Mountain Institute) has designed a NEW world-class ‘Induced Demand’ Calculator.

New ‘Induced Demand’ Calculator Shows Exactly How Much Driving Your City’s Highway Expansion Will Encourage
Oct 20, 2021 By Kea Wilson - Streetsblog USA


"decades of proven scientific literature"


Source

Other than saying this is a bunch of contrived nonsense that can't even pass a smell test, I'll forego any rant.

------------------------
Putting on my NPR Weekender Hat

I've got a Simple Math Puzzle begging to be solved.

Driving along the new expanded '101' Pima Freeway in my neck of the woods was like turning on a light. All it took was some simple math.

For SOV's, adding the 5th lane on each side of the freeway effectively doubled the throughput capacity (does not include any additional exit/enter lane). You have one week to submit your entrees.

The winning entry receives a classic dinner for two at a non-historic landmark.


Source

I've thought about this theory of "induced demand" and I don't think they take into account a population that is rising rapidly.

I grew up in KC and recall when they added lanes to I-35 and I-435 back in the '80s. They recently added another lane to 435. I have to travel there often (unfortunately) and the freeway traffic there is nothing compared to Denver. Rush hour is still just an hour, and not bad IMO. But here's the deal... their population hasn't risen that much since the '80s. It's a very steady, slow increase.

Then look at Denver. When I first moved to Denver in 1994, the population was 50% lower. When you increase the population this fast, you obviously need more capacity on freeways. Same thing in places like LA (where I spent 10 years). Population keeps going up and up, you increase capacity.

And then if "induced demand" were true and more lanes means people decide to drive on the freeways more often, then what, removing lanes is the solution? Then people would stay home?

[The Dirt]

It's kind of wild how the parking hellscape between Lincoln and Governor's Park is very quickly getting infilled after decades of sitting empty.

Map: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1YRlemTyfZVxFVR3bUkYvWK87hEBxY7If&usp=sharing

Too bad all of the Cheesman Park NIMBYs are up in arms because they think a 13 story building nowhere near their precious view plane will block views of the mountains from their 18 story buildings.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

Since I'm an elitist downtown dweller, everything south of Alameda and east of Colorado may as well be Limon.

Yep, and anything south of Hampden is Castle Rock!

[twalm]

Originally Posted by COtoOC

I've thought about this theory of "induced demand" and I don't think they take into account a population that is rising rapidly.

I grew up in KC and recall when they added lanes to I-35 and I-435 back in the '80s. They recently added another lane to 435. I have to travel there often (unfortunately) and the freeway traffic there is nothing compared to Denver. Rush hour is still just an hour, and not bad IMO. But here's the deal... their population hasn't risen that much since the '80s. It's a very steady, slow increase.

Then look at Denver. When I first moved to Denver in 1994, the population was 50% lower. When you increase the population this fast, you obviously need more capacity on freeways. Same thing in places like LA (where I spent 10 years). Population keeps going up and up, you increase capacity.

And then if "induced demand" were true and more lanes means people decide to drive on the freeways more often, then what, removing lanes is the solution? Then people would stay home?

Induced Demand is a real thing and it not just about more people driving on expanded roads over other roads it is also about people choosing new expanded roads over public transportation.

Drivers choosing driving over public transportation is bad in a variety of ways like emissions and contribution to sprawl (imo).

The RMI site describes the problem, but it doesn't do a good job of offering solutions. The most extreme way about thinking about induced demand is that with every expanded road you are sabotaging alternative public transportation methods. You could argue that any funds that go towards road expansion (not maintenance) should instead go towards urban public transportation. Denver's air quality is already atrocious and any road expansion is directly working against that issue.

So to answer your final question: Stop building extra lanes and instead invest more in alternative greener transportation methods.

[Ndj]

Originally Posted by twalm

Induced Demand is a real thing and it not just about more people driving on expanded roads over other roads it is also about people choosing new expanded roads over public transportation.

Bingo. Induced demand is just a reduction in demand for other transportation methods. Why would demand for alternatives increase if we keep making it easier to drive? Why would we build an environment that facilitates alternative forms of transportation when everyone drives anyway because it's most convenient for their needs?

It's self-perpetuating. Most people can't even imagine a built environment that would fulfill our transportation needs without the frequent use of cars.

Originally Posted by COtoOC

Then look at Denver. When I first moved to Denver in 1994, the population was 50% lower. When you increase the population this fast, you obviously need more capacity on freeways. Same thing in places like LA (where I spent 10 years). Population keeps going up and up, you increase capacity.

Population increase doesn't mean that road capacity has to increase. You can build an environment where the majority of car trips are not necessary but the general population lacks the imagination or will to create such a world.

Originally Posted by COtoOC

And then if "induced demand" were true and more lanes means people decide to drive on the freeways more often, then what, removing lanes is the solution? Then people would stay home?

Well that's bit of an extreme solution but I don't hate it. If you make driving less convenient, that it will indeed increase demand for alternative forms of transportation and a built environment that facilitates them. Again it's self-perpetuating: Unsustainable development exists because highways allow it and highways continue to grow because we need to keep up with the expanding population of people who live in developments where the only viable method of transportation in driving.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

Since I'm an elitist downtown dweller, everything south of Alameda and east of Colorado may as well be Limon.

Oof... Moving to a West Alameda address soon. Thank goodness I'm not quite in Limon.

[The Dirt]

Originally Posted by RyanD

Oof... Moving to a West Alameda address soon. Thank goodness I'm not quite in Limon.

You keep taking those pretty pictures, Ryan, and I'll give you a pass!

[The Dirt]

Originally Posted by Ndj

Well that's bit of an extreme solution but I don't hate it. If you make driving less convenient, that it will indeed increase demand for alternative forms of transportation and a built environment that facilitates them. Again it's self-perpetuating: Unsustainable development exists because highways allow it and highways continue to grow because we need to keep up with the expanding population of people who live in developments where the only viable method of transportation in driving.

Remember the Interstate 85 bridge collapse in Atlanta (https://goo.gl/maps/hokB4MtgywNVbv4f7)? It was a major 10 lane arterial in and out of downtown that was taken out for a month and a half. Pandemonium didn't ensure and traffic was simply diverted with minimal disruption. They could have kept that section of highway demolished forever and been fine. Of course, Atlanta has a bunch of redundant highways, something we've not done as much here. However, this just goes to show that people adapt and a multi-million dollar piece of infrastructure isn't as necessary as everyone seems to think.

Where highways can be replaced with multi-modal boulevards, they should be. Where they can evacuate the ROW completely, we could ensure that the newly-freed parcels are high density, and provide housing closer to employment and entertainment centers.

It takes me 35 minutes to drive to Frederick from Downtown. 20 minutes of that is just getting on the highway. There was a day that Frederick was an hour or more away and nobody dreamed of working in Weld county and driving to downtown Denver for work. Highways used for freight and BRT are great. Highways for SOVs create sprawl.

[jhwk]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

I don't think anyone has posted this yet

765 North Logan Street
Denver, CO 80203

Purchased in 2017, this 0.5 acres development opportunity overlooks Governor's Park and is located between Seventh and Eighth avenues.

Use * only * one * primary * and * only * one * secondary * material * on * the * facade *. Even if it’s all the white EFIS and no brick!

I think it would be even better if they removed the massing wart on the right side of the upper portion but I’d guess that’s due to maximizing the square footage with some inane setback rule.

I think this is actually otherwise a pretty good looking building.

[The Dirt]

Yeah, it's Fine(TM). Looks like all of the stuff that's been built in Cherry Creek recently. I'd prefer traditional design, but architects are too busy patting each other on the back every time someone designs a "whimsical" cube.

[Denver]

Looks like the redevelopment of the 7 news building (123 Speer) has started the permitting process.

The project is (2) 13-story apartment buildings with a total of 587 units and approx. 15,500 sq ft of ground floor retail, residential amenity and 525 parking spaces. The project site is approximately 100,000 SF.