Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[ponyboycurtis]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Agreed. One also has to remember that the train is 600m long. It was never made clear which wheel(s) derailed, but my gut feeling has always been that it was near the back of the train (I could be wrong though). If so, by the time it reached the front of the platform, where the "whistle blower" is, the front of the train would have been well out of the station and the driver would be well out of earshot (especially when you take reaction time into account).

That is all assuming they understood the severity of the situation. Sure they might have noticed that the train was making unusual noises (if they were paying attention, since the job they are paid for is done until the next train arrives), but while hind sight is 20/20, at the time it could easily have been dismissed (especially when, as you said, they don't have any tools other than a whistle to work with). Even if they did, unless they were confident that something was seriously wrong, would they have the confidence to order the train to stop, grinding the line to a stop?

The Citadis Spirit trains are 60m each and 120m as a pair in their current configuration.

I went to see the train as it was derailed. You are right, it was towards the rear of the train. The 2 boogies I saw off the track were between the second last and third last car sets. So one of each.

There was also ballast kicked up over the MUP and the platform itself. There was also damage done to the platform edge as the train came off on that side of the tracks.

So between a camera system, the trackside attendant coupled with gravel on the platform, I'm just perplexed that the train travelled that far in such a state. The trackside attendant has a radio in their hand.

I hope TRAs assessment examines what happened here as whole and makes the necessary recommendations. This goes beyond improperly torqued bolts and a poor maintenance routine.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

The Citadis Spirit trains are 60m each and 120m as a pair in their current configuration.

I went to see the train as it was derailed. You are right, it was towards the rear of the train. The 2 boogies I saw off the track were between the second last and third last car sets. So one of each.

There was also ballast kicked up over the MUP and the platform itself. There was also damage done to the platform edge as the train came off on that side of the tracks.

So between a camera system, the trackside attendant coupled with gravel on the platform, I'm just perplexed that the train travelled that far in such a state. The trackside attendant has a radio in their hand.

I hope TRAs assessment examines what happened here as whole and makes the necessary recommendations. This goes beyond improperly torqued bolts and a poor maintenance routine.

- The cameras only work in the stations. At that point, even if derailed the train would be held in line by the platform and would be difficult for the operator to notice. While the control room also watches the cameras, they don't view all of them all of the time, and are likely focused on busier stations than Tremblay.
- The whistle blower has no communication with the control room other than a whistle and the standard emergency telephone. If they had a radio, it is only to communicate amongst themselves, it's not an OC Transpo device.
- The derailment was at the rear, so most of the gravel would have been kicked up as the train left, not before it stopped.

Considering the acceleration profiles and where the train derailed, this incident only took a few seconds. It's not a surprise that nobody noticed.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

The Citadis Spirit trains are 60m each and 120m as a pair in their current configuration.

My mistake. I should have double checked rather than relying on memory. My bad.

Regardless, if the derailed boggy was about 100m away from the attendant, it is unlikely they would have noticed when giving the all clear. After that, their job is done.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by roger1818

..... One also has to remember that the train is 600m long.

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

The Citadis Spirit trains are 60m each and 120m as a pair in their current configuration.

........

I hope TRAs assessment examines what happened here as whole and makes the necessary recommendations. This goes beyond improperly torqued bolts and a poor maintenance routine.

Originally Posted by roger1818

My mistake. I should have double checked rather than relying on memory. My bad. ......

Good Day.

Even worse.... bad on you both

The current configuration is 1 car of 4 units at 48 meters long, for 2 cars at a total 96 meters.

The expansion configuration adds an 11 meter unit to each car, for 1 car of 5 units at 59 meters long, for 2 cars at a total 118 meters.

The current underground platforms are (hidden) built at 120 meters, and most of the surface platforms are built at 90 meters (3 meters overhang at each end) 'expandable' to 120 meters total.

The original design had planned for 150 meters total.

NB: I totally agree with what TRA needs to report on .
This is truely a case of devil's details, which is supposed to be covered on day one. This is basic stuff !

A NitPicker's Delight ! Enjoy!

[rocketphish]

Latest LRT probe gives public best chance at understanding maintenance problems
Transportation Resource Associates experts, tasked with undertaking a safety review, have been on the job since Oct. 1. The city expects Rideau Transit Group to cover the costs of TRA's work.

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Publishing date: Oct 23, 2021 • 9 hours ago • 3 minute read

The ongoing LRT shutdown might provide the most transparent, independent review of the behind-the-scenes maintenance regime in the short history of the beleaguered Confederation Line.

The city’s decision to make its latest rail consultants available for questions, and in public forums, is a change in approach after years of the city being concerned about the legal ramifications of being transparent with LRT information.

Transportation Resource Associates (TRA) is the Philadelphia-based firm assessing the return-to-service plan proposed by Rideau Transit Maintenance (RTM), which is the maintenance division of the Rideau Transit Group (RTG).

TRA’s experts, who are tasked with undertaking a safety review, have been on the job since Oct. 1. The city expects RTG to cover the costs of TRA’s work.

The LRT system has been closed since Sept. 19, when a gearbox loosened from an Alstom Citadis Spirit train, causing a derailment. It was the second derailment in as many months. A train left the tracks near Tunney’s Pasture on Aug. 8. No one was hurt in either derailment.

It’s rare that city-hired consultants, especially those tasked with investigating LRT matters, are made available to answer questions publicly from councillors and transit commissioners, but three TRA experts were available to provide information during the transit commission meeting last Wednesday.

The city also allowed TRA consultants to take questions from reporters in a post-meeting media conference.

City manager Steve Kanellakos is requiring a TRA-led briefing for council members, transit commissioners and journalists before the LRT system reopens. The city doesn’t know yet when the LRT system will be back online.

TRA might also be in a position to answer a big question on the minds of many Ottawa residents: Are the problems documented over the past two years in Ottawa unique for an upstart LRT system?

TRA’s Daniel Hauber offered an answer, though he acknowledged he hadn’t added up all the issues in Ottawa to say if they were more or less than those in other cities.

“Certainly there are a lot of rail systems, especially new rail systems, that have hiccups starting out,” Hauber told reporters, and he explained that the problems could take all sorts of forms in both infrastructure and rail vehicles.

Hauber said he had seen rail systems go months or longer with challenges.

His TRA colleague, Christopher Wallgren, said pretty much every new project had “growing pains” and it was important that an organization had a long-term commitment to safety management.

In a nutshell, that’s what TRA will be looking for when it reviews the documents provided by the city and RTM: Can the Confederation Line safely return to service in the short term, and is the maintenance regime set up for long-term safety and reliability?

Hauber said there would be issues with any transportation system, but there needed to be measures to make sure the risk of catastrophic incidents was low.

City management doesn’t seem interested in keeping this LRT review secret. There’s too much pressure from politicians and the public to make LRT decisions more transparent, especially after two high-profile breakdowns and a lengthy period of no LRT service.

The city and RTG have brought in independent consultants before to pore over the maintenance regime when problems deeply impacted LRT service.

There was intense interest when the British firm JBA Corp. came to Ottawa to assess the LRT maintenance program in early 2020, when RTM had trouble completing critical repairs and upkeep. First, the city hired JBA for a review and then RTM retained the consultant.

However, JBA’s findings weren’t made available in a public forum. Coun. Carol Anne Meehan, a former journalist, scooped everyone by getting the JBA principal on video explaining what the firm was reviewing .

While TRA will shed some light on RTM’s ability to maintain the LRT system, there will still be elements kept secret from the public.

The public likely won’t get a chance to see the return-to-service plan that RTM provided to the city since the LRT contractor says it needs to uphold confidentiality agreements with its main subcontractor, Alstom.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...ce-at-understanding-maintenance-problems

[DarthVader_1961]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Latest LRT probe gives public best chance at understanding maintenance problems
Transportation Resource Associates experts, tasked with undertaking a safety review, have been on the job since Oct. 1. The city expects Rideau Transit Group to cover the costs of TRA's work.

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Publishing date: Oct 23, 2021 • 9 hours ago • 3 minute read

The ongoing LRT shutdown might provide the most transparent, independent review of the behind-the-scenes maintenance regime in the short history of the beleaguered Confederation Line.

The city’s decision to make its latest rail consultants available for questions, and in public forums, is a change in approach after years of the city being concerned about the legal ramifications of being transparent with LRT information.

Transportation Resource Associates (TRA) is the Philadelphia-based firm assessing the return-to-service plan proposed by Rideau Transit Maintenance (RTM), which is the maintenance division of the Rideau Transit Group (RTG).

TRA’s experts, who are tasked with undertaking a safety review, have been on the job since Oct. 1. The city expects RTG to cover the costs of TRA’s work.

The LRT system has been closed since Sept. 19, when a gearbox loosened from an Alstom Citadis Spirit train, causing a derailment. It was the second derailment in as many months. A train left the tracks near Tunney’s Pasture on Aug. 8. No one was hurt in either derailment.

It’s rare that city-hired consultants, especially those tasked with investigating LRT matters, are made available to answer questions publicly from councillors and transit commissioners, but three TRA experts were available to provide information during the transit commission meeting last Wednesday.

The city also allowed TRA consultants to take questions from reporters in a post-meeting media conference.

City manager Steve Kanellakos is requiring a TRA-led briefing for council members, transit commissioners and journalists before the LRT system reopens. The city doesn’t know yet when the LRT system will be back online.

TRA might also be in a position to answer a big question on the minds of many Ottawa residents: Are the problems documented over the past two years in Ottawa unique for an upstart LRT system?

TRA’s Daniel Hauber offered an answer, though he acknowledged he hadn’t added up all the issues in Ottawa to say if they were more or less than those in other cities.

“Certainly there are a lot of rail systems, especially new rail systems, that have hiccups starting out,” Hauber told reporters, and he explained that the problems could take all sorts of forms in both infrastructure and rail vehicles.

Hauber said he had seen rail systems go months or longer with challenges.

His TRA colleague, Christopher Wallgren, said pretty much every new project had “growing pains” and it was important that an organization had a long-term commitment to safety management.

In a nutshell, that’s what TRA will be looking for when it reviews the documents provided by the city and RTM: Can the Confederation Line safely return to service in the short term, and is the maintenance regime set up for long-term safety and reliability?

Hauber said there would be issues with any transportation system, but there needed to be measures to make sure the risk of catastrophic incidents was low.

City management doesn’t seem interested in keeping this LRT review secret. There’s too much pressure from politicians and the public to make LRT decisions more transparent, especially after two high-profile breakdowns and a lengthy period of no LRT service.

The city and RTG have brought in independent consultants before to pore over the maintenance regime when problems deeply impacted LRT service.

There was intense interest when the British firm JBA Corp. came to Ottawa to assess the LRT maintenance program in early 2020, when RTM had trouble completing critical repairs and upkeep. First, the city hired JBA for a review and then RTM retained the consultant.

However, JBA’s findings weren’t made available in a public forum. Coun. Carol Anne Meehan, a former journalist, scooped everyone by getting the JBA principal on video explaining what the firm was reviewing .

While TRA will shed some light on RTM’s ability to maintain the LRT system, there will still be elements kept secret from the public.

The public likely won’t get a chance to see the return-to-service plan that RTM provided to the city since the LRT contractor says it needs to uphold confidentiality agreements with its main subcontractor, Alstom.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...ce-at-understanding-maintenance-problems

Any chance the Q and A is available to read/view?

[Nowhere]

With the talks of buying old buses from St Louis MO for the R1 service... I was thinking, why do we face a shortage of buses, considering the "temporary" service cuts for the pandemic ? If these are temporary cuts, shouldn't we have extra buses available ?

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Nowhere

With the talks of buying old buses from St Louis MO for the R1 service... I was thinking, why do we face a shortage of buses, considering the "temporary" service cuts for the pandemic ? If these are temporary cuts, shouldn't we have extra buses available ?

One has to wonder whether we have been replacing bus drivers as a result of normal attrition. Maybe the 'temporary' cuts were not so temporary as I always believed.

[ponyboycurtis]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day.

Even worse.... bad on you both

The current configuration is 1 car of 4 units at 48 meters long, for 2 cars at a total 96 meters.

The expansion configuration adds an 11 meter unit to each car, for 1 car of 5 units at 59 meters long, for 2 cars at a total 118 meters.

The current underground platforms are (hidden) built at 120 meters, and most of the surface platforms are built at 90 meters (3 meters overhang at each end) 'expandable' to 120 meters total.

The original design had planned for 150 meters total.

NB: I totally agree with what TRA needs to report on .
This is truely a case of devil's details, which is supposed to be covered on day one. This is basic stuff !

A NitPicker's Delight ! Enjoy!

As someone who owned all 3 Nitpickers Star Trek guides, I consider my nit picked. I bid you a good day sir!

[Kitchissippi]

I was reading this article on Toronto's Crosstown and wondered why we don't have similar places to store disabled trains along the track. With all the problems we've been having with the Citadis Spirit, we need several of these!

[rocketphish]

Used bus purchase spiked after cost soars, concerns flagged
Coun. Catherine McKenney had pledged to personally cover the tab

Trevor Pritchard · CBC News
Posted: Oct 25, 2021 2:36 PM ET | Last Updated: 5 hours ago

Ottawa will not be adding 13 used buses from the city of St. Louis to its fleet after the price skyrocketed on the weekend and the city flagged several potential problems with the aging vehicles.

The auction for the buses Coun. Catherine McKenney had pledged to personally buy for the city was set to close Monday afternoon, with the price having soared from roughly $1,500 last Wednesday to more than $30,000.

McKenney had offered to cover the tab for the buses at the city's most recent transit commission meeting, where transit advocates shared riders' frustrations with the state of the bus fleet during the latest LRT shutdown.

On Monday, McKenney shared a response from city staff with CBC that noted several problems with the buses, from difficulties bringing them up to OC Transpo specifications in the short-term to questions about their long-term viability.

"It is important to consider that the buses up for auction are approximately 17 years old, and we do not know the condition of the buses nor how well they have been maintained since previously sold," the response said.

"Based on the information that we have identified, it is not recommended that we proceed with purchasing these end-of-life buses."

Ottawa's Confederation Line has now been shut down for more than a month after a train derailed Sept. 19 near Tremblay station.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/st-louis-buses-ottawa-catherine-mckenney-purchase-1.6224167

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I was reading this article on Toronto's Crosstown and wondered why we don't have similar places to store disabled trains along the track. With all the problems we've been having with the Citadis Spirit, we need several of these!

Good Day.

Well, from a certain point of view, there had been some plan for such, but they were eliminated to the "benefit" of cost-cutting. (( ! All praise to Jimbo ! ))

The system map at railfans still shows the singular most telling location for a double-ended siding.
The original plan had it as a double-ended, in-the-center, accessible from either side pocket track, west of Tremblay, west of the rail-over-road bridge, east of Hurdman, on the curve by the 'Hurdman Bridge Pumping Station'.
! GEE - exactly where the train came to a shuddering STOP !
https://map.railfans.ca/#16.38/45.414112/-75.659408/-30

As well, in early days, the decision was made (due to both cost-cutting, and space squeeze considerations) to not have terminus tail-tracks. ( IMHO a freaking HUGE mistake. )
They made this into a space-saving, time-saving 'feature' by having crossover switching on the inside service side of the stations (saving time by crossing over on the way in or out of the terminus),
rather than the outside utility area behind the stations, crossing over in an extra train movement with no passengers on board, and having NO confusion as to which platform to use to board the next train (Tunney's),
and where (GEE) a spare train, or an out-of-service train, could have been stored, out-of-the-way (previous switching derail incident).

The space squeeze could have been eliminated except for the cost-cutting going on - Tunney's by actually building the Goldenrod/Smirle bridge in the first place (saving the increased cost and flouncing around to put it in in Phase 2)
and Blair by going with the original bus-over-rail station, allowing rail STRAIGHT under Blair, and a straight run eastward in Phase 2,
without the loopy-loop we will now have here, and probably without the big flyover into the 174 median off to the east, as the rail already low down would have tunnelled under the westbound lanes and risen calmly into the median.

At the time, a lot of the cost-cutting was explained away as re-using existing infrastructure - which really never happened !

And Jimbo ? - was directly or indirectly responsible for most of it by his machinations down in Queen's Park to cut the Phase 1 budget - little realizing that it was not going to die,
but that HE would then have to make the cheap "Chevrolet" actually WORK !

And here we are today - with all sorts of problems that even the experts are having a harder and harder time explaining away as "teething" pains !
Hence my comment of "devil's details". This really is basic, no-brainer, come-on-guys - GET IT RIGHT, EH !

Sorry for wandering so far from your initial point, but in the end it all connects together. (for want of a nail, the horseshoe was lost. for want of a horseshoe, the horse was lost. for want of a horse, the .......empire was lost.)

EnJoy !

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

As someone who owned all 3 Nitpickers Star Trek guides, I consider my nit picked. I bid you a good day sir!

Good Day.

!! durn it - you get me - me also !!

I'm going to have to start using more arcane references !

EnJoy!

[lrt's friend]

And Jimbo ? - was directly or indirectly responsible for most of it by his machinations down in Queen's Park to cut the Phase 1 budget - little realizing that it was not going to die,
but that HE would then have to make the cheap "Chevrolet" actually WORK !

Wow! Somebody else actually remembers that this happened. Many have denied it.

Many of the cost cutting measures were wise (eliminating the cross-country route for example) but we are permanently going to suffer from others.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Wow! Somebody else actually remembers that this happened. Many have denied it.

Many of the cost cutting measures were wise (eliminating the cross-country route for example) but we are permanently going to suffer from others.

Memories are short.

[lrt's friend]

Sometimes a little humour is needed.

• Video Link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZb77hNDpKc

[Horus]

The latest, via CBC

LRT should return to full service by mid-December, city says

RTG pegs Nov. 29 date, but that will require 'validation' by city, outside firm
Trevor Pritchard · CBC News · Posted: Oct 26, 2021 6:08 PM ET |
Last Updated: 4 hours ago

Ottawa's Confederation light rail line should be fully up and running again by mid-December, roughly three months after it was shut down when a train derailed, according to the city.

In a Tuesday memo to council and transit commission, city manager Steve Kanellakos said the line's builder, Rideau Transit Group (RTG), had pegged Monday, Nov. 29 as the likely date it could have the LRT line completely back in service.

However, that would still require approval from both the city and Transportation Research Associates (TRA), a U.S.-based rail safety expert hired to review any plans to get trains carrying passengers again.

"The Nov. 29 date provided by RTG is a target and is subject to validation of the vehicle inspection program by TRA and the City," Kanellakos wrote.

"Accordingly, staff anticipates a return to full service is achievable by mid-December."

Partial return still set for mid-November

Trains have not been running since Sept. 19, when one carrying 12 passengers became dislodged near Tremblay station, travelling across a rail bridge with one wheel off the track before finally coming to a stop.

It was the second derailment on the line in less than six weeks. Both derailments are being investigated by the Transportation Safety Board of Canada.

Kanellakos said a partial return to service, involving up to seven trains and one spare, was still in the cards for the first two weeks of November.

Some test trains are expected to run along parts of the LRT network later this week, he wrote.

RTG's plan to once again run 15 trains plus a spare will ultimately depend on the "acceptance of their workplan by TRA, timely execution of the inspection program, validation of the work completed on the vehicle fleet and acceptance by the City," Kanellakos said in the memo.

City council has already voted in favour of free transit in December, should the trains be in operation by then.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Sometimes a little humour is needed.

OK, that was well done.

Just hoping we have service back soon.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Wow! Somebody else actually remembers that this happened. Many have denied it.

Many of the cost cutting measures were wise (eliminating the cross-country route for example) but we are permanently going to suffer from others.

Before it is too late pocket tracks could be constructed just west of Tunney's and East of Blair as an add on cost to the current west and east extensions.

[SidetrackedSue]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

Before it is too late pocket tracks could be constructed just west of Tunney's and East of Blair as an add on cost to the current west and east extensions.

Can we fit pocket tracks in the trench? Cuz it is trench from Tunney's West to the NCC land along the parkway (where I doubt the NCC would allow any additional space.)