DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[mr1138]

Originally Posted by kemachs

I do like the terraces/design, just seems a little squat. Do you know if it was originally proposed as only 3 floors, or was it screamed down a floor or 2 by neighbors?

Arvada's downtown is great; cool mix of businesses with some old-school flavor mixed in, and love that they closed off a few streets (semi?) permanently for pedestrians. But one thing it could use is a little more density nearby, especially with an RTD station right there...arguably the best integrated w/ the historic fabric of any Denver suburb. Hell, other than Downtown, the Olde Town station environment feels more organically urban than any train stop in Denver proper.

I couldn't agree more - that's why I live here! There is definitely a segment of the Arvada community who feels that "Olde" literally means everything needs to be old. To me, the charm of the neighborhood is that it feels "organically urban" as you say and is now integrated into greater Denver with the train. We actually have better transit access to Downtown Denver than many close-in Denver neighborhoods (plus easier access to the mountains on Fridays).

As for that infill project, I'm pretty sure that the Olde Town design guidelines cap all new buildings at 3-stories along Grandview. In fact, none of the historic mixed-use buildings are more than 2-stories, so this doesn't really bother me - in this case I think fitting in with the "character" of the older main street buildings makes sense at this stage in history. Neighbors were actually screaming for there to be no project at all and for two small, deteriorating single-family homes on the site to be historically landmarked - so to me this project is a big win. New retail space and a mixed-use form will be a welcome addition here.

There are PLENTY of places where more density could be added near the station. I would love to see some higher density south of the tracks as time goes on - a mixed-use grocery store like at Union Station would be great for the neighborhood. The topography drops about 20+ feet south of the train tracks, where the "Olde Town Residences" are getting built. Taller buildings will be allowed here, though many residents still argued to Council that anything taller than 4-stories would "block the views" from Grandview Ave. City Council wasn't as moved by this argument as by - you guessed it - parking concerns. They only gave the project final approval when the developer agreed to slightly reduce the number of housing units and make the parking garage bigger.

[Arapahoe]

today I saw two aliens helping with the CCC construction!



These beams are creating the new terrace for the ballroom on the roof.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by mhays

The reporter's beat description has no mention of real estate. Her article history from the past few months suggests she took on real estate coverage in the last month or so. Commercial real estate seems to require familiarity to do well. I'd guess it's about not really knowing where to look, and no recollection about the project.

Jensen Werley is Brand New. It looks like James Rodriguez who had been doing a great job left near the end of September.

Different Landscapes

Ken/DenverInfill and BusinessDen are hyper focused on downtown or anything Denver and not (really) the suburbs. The Denver Post now reprints many of BusinessDen's CRE news pieces.

The Denver Business Journal's focus is much different. Their view is Denver as in the whole metro area and while CRE development would be one piece it's not necessarily the primary piece. Lots of Business people couldn't care less about RE development (although many do). BusinessDen will include news like what downtown businesses are are closing - or opening while the DBJ wouldn't carry such localized news for the most part.

I will say losing James Rodriguez is unfortunate.


Thanks for the additional feedback and clarification

Originally Posted by mr1138

I couldn't agree more - that's why I live here! There is definitely a segment of the Arvada community who feels that "Olde" literally means everything needs to be old. To me, the charm of the neighborhood is that it feels "organically urban" as you say and is now integrated into greater Denver with the train. We actually have better transit access to Downtown Denver than many close-in Denver neighborhoods (plus easier access to the mountains on Fridays).

I had a Brother (RIP) that retired/moved from Michigan when his company was bought out and downsized; they had a nice Townhome in NW Arvada. An avid skier and biker they also had a nice home in Summit County where the kids and grandkids could come up and stay.

Not especially familiar with Olde Town but not unfamiliar. Years ago when I thought of moving back to Denver I had my eye on living there as apposed the the SE area where I had always lived.

Nice Post

Originally Posted by Arapahoe

today I saw two aliens helping with the CCC construction!

These beams are creating the new terrace for the ballroom on the roof.

We haven't much covered the CCC expansion so the great photos are timely.

BTW, I love those aliens; they're erotic; and they just happen to be my 1st and 2nd cousins.

[TakeFive]

Friday's off-the-beaten path

For those who love cranes; lots of cranes.

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2021/10/14/canadian-builder-buying-land-near-tsmc.html

He and his wife were driving around looking at some of Mattamy's new communities. When they drove past the TSMC site, she counted 17 cranes and a parking lot loaded with about 300 cars for the construction crews.

Don Barrineau is positioning Mattamy Homes for the thousands of employees of Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. who will need homes as the company builds its plant in north Phoenix.

Nice looking 24-story twin apartment towers groundbreaking set for Tuesday, Oct. 19.

https://www.azfamily.com/news/new-apartm...c-bbee-a79544bccfd6.html?block_id=667537

JE Dunn Construction and Lincoln Ventures say the development will take place near 3rd and Garfield streets. It will be Lincoln Ventures' first project in metro Phoenix, and they say they're looking forward to working with local artists on bring the city's flair into the building. "We are big believers in the Roosevelt Row Arts District and are very excited to bring a high-quality living environment into this exciting district,” said Lincoln Ventures spokesperson Brendan Morrow.

It will be 535 feet tall

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news...ears-up-build-arizona-tallest-tower.html

Called The Astra Phoenix, the 47-story tower will be the tallest tower in Arizona... and will cost about $450 million to develop, Grudzinski said.

Moving to Denver? Or moving out of Denver?

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/...move-california-ny-chicago-linkedin.html

The Denver metro area gained the most workers in the previous 12 months from the San Francisco Bay area, New York City and Chicago.

Meanwhile, Phoenix has been the most popular destination for workers leaving Denver for the past two years, according to LinkedIn research.

Slowly but surely

Denver homebuilder buys 25 acres of Loretto Heights campus for $14.5M

Thrive Home Builders has purchased a significant portion of land on the historic Loretto Heights campus, as part of the seller’s plan for development. Andy Klein, founder and managing principal at Glendale-based Westside said that he planned for Thrive to be the homebuilding partner for the project from the beginning,

Everybody wants to know, "will we see "missing middle" housing?"

The company plans to construct 322 homes, including affordable and market-rate townhomes and multiple styles of detached single-family homes.

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/...rtment-jefferson-park-decatur-point.html

The developer behind Decatur Point, a Jefferson Park apartment building built in 2016, is now looking to build a five-story sister apartment next to it, according to concept plans filed with the city.

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by mhays

The reporter's beat description has no mention of real estate. Her article history from the past few months suggests she took on real estate coverage in the last month or so. Commercial real estate seems to require familiarity to do well. I'd guess it's about not really knowing where to look, and no recollection about the project.

You could send an email noting a couple basics about the project history and where it's been covered. She might appreciate the background, and hearing about resources to check next time. Often they'll even put a clarification into the online article, so the archives will at least be right. This might even get some mention of Denver Infill.

Perhaps you're right, although I think you're being too forgiving. The reporter literally included in her article a video about Kairoi's earlier version of this project, yet failed to actually mention anywhere in the article that Kairoi had just spent two years trying to get essentially the same tower on the same site through the development review process. I don't know how she could not have known that. Plus there's this thing called Google that would have brought this to her attention with the simplest search. I really think it has to do with the DBJ's editorial policy of only acknowledging themselves as a worthy news source and, therefore, since they hadn't reported on the Kairoi project previously, they must pretend it never happened.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

Perhaps you're right, although I think you're being too forgiving. The reporter literally included in her article a video about Kairoi's earlier version of this project, yet failed to actually mention anywhere in the article that Kairoi had just spent two years trying to get essentially the same tower on the same site through the development review process. I don't know how she could not have known that. Plus there's this thing called Google that would have brought this to her attention with the simplest search. I really think it has to do with the DBJ's editorial policy of only acknowledging themselves as a worthy news source and, therefore, since they hadn't reported on the Kairoi project previously, they must pretend it never happened.

I don't know what to say that you're so bothered by this other than "Sorry, to each his own."

My 1st thought was you must be mistaken that the DBJ never reported on this project previously? Soo, I googled under their previous iteration of "Lynd Residential Properties" but no cigar. Turns out their rebrand came in December of 2017. You were correct.

I'll guess this was DBJ's time of transition when they were trying out new design layouts to be more smartphone friendly as well as moving towards a Paywall. No question there was a period of time when they were rather hit and miss with respect to new development. I can recall James Rodriguez after he came onboard, on occasion stating "first reported by" (so and so) which jumped out as being especially professional.

Fast Forward

So far as the DBJ linking to their own previous articles that's common practice among all media. But in this case, honestly, I would have been bored had Jensen given a previous chapter and verse history of Kairoi's previous futile efforts.

To her credit (presumably) Jensen found her own source by speaking directly with Buzz Geller that Kairo was (again) interested in this site. I don't see where she was under any obligation, ethical or otherwise to rehash other's reporting. Does she avoid that (partly) by recounting her conversation with Buzz? Yes, she does.

I would be hard pressed to recall any media site that bemoans their own past shortcomings of things they could have, should have done?

[mhays]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

Perhaps you're right, although I think you're being too forgiving. The reporter literally included in her article a video about Kairoi's earlier version of this project, yet failed to actually mention anywhere in the article that Kairoi had just spent two years trying to get essentially the same tower on the same site through the development review process. I don't know how she could not have known that. Plus there's this thing called Google that would have brought this to her attention with the simplest search. I really think it has to do with the DBJ's editorial policy of only acknowledging themselves as a worthy news source and, therefore, since they hadn't reported on the Kairoi project previously, they must pretend it never happened.

I didn't notice that. Certainly a good clue.

Seattle's DBJ twin (the PSBJ) mentions other papers. The real estate guy has mentioned the Daily Journal of Commerce (our main A/E/C/RE paper) five times this year alone. The Seattle Times seems to be mentioned about once a week. Maybe it's a local DBJ policy.

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I don't know what to say that you're so bothered by this other than "Sorry, to each his own."

My 1st thought was you must be mistaken that the DBJ never reported on this project previously? Soo, I googled under their previous iteration of "Lynd Residential Properties" but no cigar. Turns out their rebrand came in December of 2017. You were correct.

I'll guess this was DBJ's time of transition when they were trying out new design layouts to be more smartphone friendly as well as moving towards a Paywall. No question there was a period of time when they were rather hit and miss with respect to new development. I can recall James Rodriguez after he came onboard, on occasion stating "first reported by" (so and so) which jumped out as being especially professional.

Fast Forward

So far as the DBJ linking to their own previous articles that's common practice among all media. But in this case, honestly, I would have been bored had Jensen given a previous chapter and verse history of Kairoi's previous futile efforts.

To her credit (presumably) Jensen found her own source by speaking directly with Buzz Geller that Kairo was (again) interested in this site. I don't see where she was under any obligation, ethical or otherwise to rehash other's reporting. Does she avoid that (partly) by recounting her conversation with Buzz? Yes, she does.

I would be hard pressed to recall any media site that bemoans their own past shortcomings of things they could have, should have done?

I'm not bothered by it; I just think it is strange for a reporter to write an article about a proposed tower and fail to mention in that article, even briefly, the important fact that the same developer had recently spent two years trying to get the same project on the same site through the city's development review process.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Moving to Denver? Or moving out of Denver?

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/...move-california-ny-chicago-linkedin.html

Good thing you got into Phoenix before Denver gentrified it...

[The Dirt]

Originally Posted by Arapahoe

apparently so, Their video shows a bit more brick than what looked like all glass before.

• Video Link

Not a fan of the flaring top floor balconies. They really should have either had that shape all the way down or tapered at the top instead of flared. What's even the point of an education in architecture when you design stuff like this. Are architectural firms really this out of touch with what the vast majority of the public deems good design?

[SirLucasTheGreat]

I think I liked the original all glass design the most but I think the LDDRB was fatigued by all the other glass buildings in the area (1144 15th, Polsinelli, the Confluence, etc...)

[Tykendo]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

I think I liked the original all glass design the most but I think the LDDRB was fatigued by all the other glass buildings in the area (1144 15th, Polsinelli, the Confluence, etc...)

Agree, the original design concept blew this out of the water. This new proposal looks like a mid 90's Honolulu condo building. The 1st design had flair and pizzazz. Look to Vancouver BC, and do better please. Especially for a property that is one of the main entrances to Downtown.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

Not a fan of the flaring top floor balconies. They really should have either had that shape all the way down or tapered at the top instead of flared. What's even the point of an education in architecture when you design stuff like this. Are architectural firms really this out of touch with what the vast majority of the public deems good design?

Not to worry then as this looks like a 'concept' design from 2019. According to rds70 HKS is now the architect so there's no telling what the new design looks like except that I assume they feel pretty good about their latest proposal passing muster; I can't imagine they'd waste any more time w/o thinking they're close to whatever would make the LDDRB happy, happy.

Originally Posted by laniroj

Good thing you got into Phoenix before Denver gentrified it...

No doubt!

I've often suggested that Phoenix was 5 years behind Denver at least coming out of the Great Recession. The area is now on steroids and the difference in affordability in 'nice' areas is disappearing fast.

COVID has kept me closer to home. Last night after dropping a friend at the airport I ventured downtown for the 1st time in a couple of years. I stuck to the northern slice which has a LoDo-esque feel to it. The difference from two years ago is eye-popping.

A rideshare blogger buddy just moved up to Denver, I assume for family reasons. Retired (military) at 48 years old he makes ~$4,000 a month which is enough to pay the bills. Living out near Buckley Rd he's already been to DIA a few times.

[Ndj]

Agreed that the current concept is pretty underwhelming. This was my favorite concept for that site.




I think it would have contributed the most to the character of that area and would have gone a long way in helping stitch the divide between the Auraria Campus and downtown.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Yeah I forgot about that older one. Wasn't Hines involved? That would have had much more street appeal and would have felt more cohesive.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

Yeah I forgot about that older one. Wasn't Hines involved? That would have had much more street appeal and would have felt more cohesive.

This is the Hines proposal per DenverInfill.

I have no clue where that other design came from; it's not sourced and Google couldn't find it.

EDIT: I found the above at CREJ.

[Arapahoe]

Originally Posted by Tykendo

Agree, the original design concept blew this out of the water. This new proposal looks like a mid 90's Honolulu condo building. The 1st design had flair and pizzazz. Look to Vancouver BC, and do better please. Especially for a property that is one of the main entrances to Downtown.

agreed, this is hideous. North Korea design..lol

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Arapahoe

agreed, this is hideous. North Korea design..lol

IDK this seems to be a perfect example of what design review does to a structure (Bell Tower didn't get as far down the LDDRB process as this abysmal project). Especially when the design review board is more concerned with what retail street signs and front door sconces look like.


Here's hoping HKS has a better initial design to work from before it gets whittled away.

[Ndj]

That render is an iteration of the Hines proposal. There were a couple denver infill posts on it:

https://denverinfill.com/2017/02/bell-park-mixed-use-update-1.html

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

Are architectural firms really this out of touch with what the vast majority of the public deems good design?

Yes, they are. We have two generations of architects who have obsessed over mid-century modern elements of design and the simplistic form of that era. We shouldn't expect otherwise because the education systems that feed into these firms largely teach the same content and share that same enthusiasm for "semi-brutalist" inspiration. IMO design has become groupthink.