Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Hali87

Agreed.

Although a surprising number of people still seem to opt for the outside company/inept translation. Maybe this will change over time.

Québec Inc. is fairly extensive but only goes so far and does not cover everything.

We don't always have a choice.

Plus Québec Inc. firms are successful so a lot of them get bought out eventually.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

I think this is lazy conjecture without historical evidence. Hundreds of civil wars have occurred between people who speak the same language. Liberals in the GTA speak the same language as conservative Alberta hicks.

Also, I don't see where efficiencies would be gained with more bilinguals. The translation budget would remain the same, it's not like you could start putting official notices and internal communications in only one language or the other just because more people speak both.

Documents get filed in French for an environmental assessment process run by the feds. If everyone understands French the entire process can be run without any translation expenses.

A journalist asks questions of a federal department. If everyone understands French his questions don't need to be translated for anyone and then the answers can be written in French from stage one.

Millions of Canadians have educational diplomas and other certifications that are in French. People who understand French can review their applications and credentials without translation.

My Quebec-issued vaccine passport and all associated information is all in French fyi. So if someone asks for it...

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I mean I can live with the status quo but if people want to do a hatchet job on our rights based on bullshit arguments...

Maybe it's time to let us do our own thing a bit more?

Nobody is talking about doing a hatchet job to your rights. You have a right to interact with the federal government in a language of your choice. I am just saying the federal government has way too many positions that require bilingualism to meet that requirement, particularly in an era where few government services are offered in person anymore.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Documents get filed in French for an environmental assessment process run by the feds. If everyone understands French the entire process can be run without any translation expenses.

A journalist asks questions of a federal department. If everyone understands French his questions don't need to be translated for anyone and then the answers can be written in French from stage one.

Millions of Canadians have educational diplomas and other certifications that are in French. People who understand French can review their applications and credentials without translation.

My Quebec-issued vaccine passport and all associated information is all in French fyi. So if someone asks for it...

Unless there is only one person who reviews all environmental assessments for the federal government (in which case that person needs to be bilingual) then the government probably receives applications in a relatively known ratio of English to French. They need enough English speakers to review the English applications and enough French speakers (could be unilingual French) to review the French applications.

Same with the journalists or diploma reviewers (although my diploma is in Latin, I am pretty sure I have never worked for a Latin speaker), the government employs many spokespeople, they don’t all need to be bilingual.

[vid]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Documents get filed in French for an environmental assessment process run by the feds. If everyone understands French the entire process can be run without any translation expenses.

A journalist asks questions of a federal department. If everyone understands French his questions don't need to be translated for anyone and then the answers can be written in French from stage one.

Millions of Canadians have educational diplomas and other certifications that are in French. People who understand French can review their applications and credentials without translation.

My Quebec-issued vaccine passport and all associated information is all in French fyi. So if someone asks for it...

Name a country where every citizen is bilingual.

(And not Myanmar—Burmese is a technicality and even their country has dozens of minority languages.)


More people in Thunder Bay are monolingual in an indigenous language than monolingual in French but guess who gets served in their language despite not actually being from this part of the continent? If we're going to regionalize official languages like this, there are many languages I would put ahead of yours on that list.

[vid]

Imagine trying to use a McDonalds when the only language you speak is Ojicree.

[lio45]

In this scenario, you obviously have a credit card, and I’m also assuming the McDonald’s is a civilized (southern) Canada location that has the electronic self-service ordering stations? Easy peasy!

[lio45]

Alternatively: if the only language you speak is Ojicree, why on Earth would you be interested in McDonald’s when unlike us you can legally use a machine gun to mow down all the deer and moose you want 24/7/365, and get the best and healthiest meat there is?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Nobody is talking about doing a hatchet job to your rights. You have a right to interact with the federal government in a language of your choice. I am just saying the federal government has way too many positions that require bilingualism to meet that requirement, particularly in an era where few government services are offered in person anymore.

It would be more accurate that it has some (perhaps too many) bilingual positions in the wrong places.

As I alluded to with my reference to unilingual customs agents at Ottawa airport.

But somehow I don't think that the enemies of bilingualism in the public service (and by extension in federal services to the public) are really about redirecting bilingual resources to where they'd be more needed and logical.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by vid

Name a country where every citizen is bilingual.

(And not Myanmar—Burmese is a technicality and even their country has dozens of minority languages.)


More people in Thunder Bay are monolingual in an indigenous language than monolingual in French but guess who gets served in their language despite not actually being from this part of the continent? If we're going to regionalize official languages like this, there are many languages I would put ahead of yours on that list.

I don't recall talking about regionalizing official languages (and I am neither really for or really against it, actually) but in terms of federal language policy for Canada as a whole the reality is that there are several million people in Canada who speak only French, whereas no other language that isn't English doesn't have anywhere near 1 million people who only speak it and nothing else.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Unless there is only one person who reviews all environmental assessments for the federal government (in which case that person needs to be bilingual) then the government probably receives applications in a relatively known ratio of English to French. They need enough English speakers to review the English applications and enough French speakers (could be unilingual French) to review the French applications.

Same with the journalists or diploma reviewers (although my diploma is in Latin, I am pretty sure I have never worked for a Latin speaker), the government employs many spokespeople, they don’t all need to be bilingual.

Isn't that largely the way it already works?

But someone needs to be able to supervise and approve the work that individuals do in either English or French.

That's why this type of anti-bilingualism discussion will often focus on limited opportunities for advancement for unilinguals, because supervisory positions are very often bilingual in order to address what I described previously.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It would be more accurate that it has some (perhaps too many) bilingual positions in the wrong places.

As I alluded to with my reference to unilingual customs agents at Ottawa airport.

But somehow I don't think that the enemies of bilingualism in the public service (and by extension in federal services to the public) are really about redirecting bilingual resources to where they'd be more needed and logical.

The first point of contact now for Customs is a machine. The machine could easily direct you to a window with a French speaker if you choose French for interactions with the machine. There is no need for every customs officer to be bilingual.

Yeah, I am sure there are people who are just anti-French. But I think most of the "enemies of bilingualism" would be satisfied by a more rational approach to bilingualism. What people inside the civil service see is a huge number of unnecessarily bilingual jobs. What people outside the civil service see is a huge number of government jobs that require bilingualism to get hired, particularly for high profile post secondary recruitment jobs. Both cause resentment.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Isn't that largely the way it already works?

But someone needs to be able to supervise and approve the work that individuals do in either English or French.

That's why this type of anti-bilingualism discussion will often focus on limited opportunities for advancement for unilinguals, because supervisory positions are very often bilingual in order to address what I described previously.

At some point there is someone in the hierarchy that needs to be able to read documents in both languages. But the low-level manager positions could easily be unilingual or have a lower level required (i.e. a French-speaking manager would supervise the French-speaking employees to review French submissions), which would actually be better than the current system of having "pass the test" anglos trying to muddle through.

[Al Ski]

Originally Posted by vid

Imagine trying to use a McDonalds when the only language you speak is Ojicree.

They should be pleased that they're unable to order MacDo's overpriced, overpackaged, sugar/salt/fat garbage!

That people eat this crap and that Canada has so many of these garbage dispensaries.. more, per capita, than anywhere else - including the U.S. (but don't quote me)

I live near one and to see people in their giant SUVs, idling through a 15 SUV lineup in order to grab their bags of absolute sh*t..

It's disheartening and represents everything that is leading to our demise.

And then there's the 'free floating' garbage that spreads throughout our neighbourhood when transient garbage people order garbage food then proceed to treat their immediate surroundings like garbage..

The garbage MacDo eater mentality.

They become what they eat.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by acottawa

The first point of contact now for Customs is a machine. The machine could easily direct you to a window with a French speaker if you choose French for interactions with the machine. There is no need for every customs officer to be bilingual.
.

I don't see any explanation other than bad faith, incompetence or both, for having only 75% of customers officers bilingual at YOW (Ottawa) when close to 100% are bilingual at YUL (Montreal) and even YQB (Quebec City).

[dleung]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't see any explanation other than bad faith, incompetence or both, for having only 75% of customers officers bilingual at YOW (Ottawa) when close to 100% are bilingual at YUL (Montreal) and even YQB (Quebec City).

Isn't that just because Ottawa isn't subject to the language police?

This is well past any pretense of pragmatism, and deep into Karen territory lol

And why do the same people keep hijacking every thread with the language thing

[whatnext]

Sorry but isn’t there a separate thread for discussing Quebec ad nausea? Mods?

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=244997&page=44

[JHikka]

I agree. Moved.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by dleung

Isn't that just because Ottawa isn't subject to the language police?

This is well past any pretense of pragmatism, and deep into Karen territory lol
:

No it's not about Bill 101 at all, it's about the federal Official Languages Act.

Stay in the slow lane if you can't keep up with the traffic.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by dleung

And why do the same people keep hijacking every thread with the language thing

I am not the one who started it, but I am certainly not going to let this BS slide.