Highways in Canada

[sonysnob]

Two views looking northerly along A-85 near Lake Témiscouata near the border with New Bruswick:


http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/A/85/A85_cl_24-5_north_w_Oct21_24x16.jpg


http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/A/85/A85_cl_24-5_north_t_Oct21_24x16.jpg

[esquire]

Postcard-pretty scene with a nice highway to top it off.

[GreaterMontréal]

The new Turcot interchange.
• Video Link

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

Two views looking northerly along A-85 near Lake Témiscouata near the border with New Bruswick:

Definitely the best part of the drive between the Maritimes and Montreal, scenery-wise. Highway is a bit overdesigned with the roads still running along it, though.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Definitely the best part of the drive between the Maritimes and Montreal, scenery-wise. Highway is a bit overdesigned with the roads still running along it, though.

That's modern high-speed road standards though. They're great, but in a lot of cases are overkill when a more modest design might actually save some money.

It'll be good for separating long-distance travel from local traffic. If I was driving it and in no hurry to get anywhere, the local road probably would be the more entertaining drive. Modern freeways are good for moving traffic, local roads are more fun to drive.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

The new Turcot interchange.

It's impressive how much the A20 has been shifted. The interchange actually looks much less complex than the previous one.

Alas, no 'backwards' running on the A20 anymore with the carriageways reversed to typical. It was one of those unique experiences to have passengers exclaim 'Hey, we're on the wrong side'.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Definitely the best part of the drive between the Maritimes and Montreal, scenery-wise. Highway is a bit overdesigned with the roads still running along it, though.

Originally Posted by thewave46

That's modern high-speed road standards though. They're great, but in a lot of cases are overkill when a more modest design might actually save some money.

It'll be good for separating long-distance travel from local traffic. If I was driving it and in no hurry to get anywhere, the local road probably would be the more entertaining drive. Modern freeways are good for moving traffic, local roads are more fun to drive.

Only in Quebec (as opposed to in Ontario) though. I always feel that in return their freeway design is down a notch, i.e. downhill slopes that are greater than 5% on newly built freeways. Then again, Quebec technically has harsher terrain than Ontario does.
Meanwhile in Ontario, our freeway design is great even in the Shields, but in return we omit detours. Keep in mind, some parts of twinned ON-69 have no detours.

If MTO were to build that stretch of A85, it’d have looked very different from the current build. Then again, we never have to deal with the Appalachians in Ontario.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Only in Quebec (as opposed to in Ontario) though. I always feel that in return their freeway design is down a notch, i.e. downhill slopes that are greater than 5% on newly built freeways. Then again, Quebec technically has harsher terrain than Ontario does.
Meanwhile in Ontario, our freeway design is great even in the Shields, but in return we omit detours. Keep in mind, some parts of twinned ON-69 have no detours.

If MTO were to build that stretch of A85, it’d have looked very different from the current build. Then again, we never have to deal with the Appalachians in Ontario.

I'm not an expert on the differing construction standards between provinces, so I can't rightly say. I'm of the non-expert opinion that arbitrary standards should yield to reality of what the highway is likely to be used for over its expected lifespan. So, overbuilding a highway for a volume of traffic it will likely never handle is just as silly as under-building. Where A85 falls on that measure? I actually don't know.

I am happy to see the replacement of Route 185 as it was previously known to be inadequate for what it was asked to do.

As for Highway 69 in Ontario, well, there wasn't a detour before either.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

Two views looking northerly along A-85 near Lake Témiscouata near the border with New Bruswick:


http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/A/85/A85_cl_24-5_north_w_Oct21_24x16.jpg


http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/A/85/A85_cl_24-5_north_t_Oct21_24x16.jpg

I actually drove by there not that long ago.

Lac Témiscouata with the fall colours in the mountain reflecting on it actually looked like a painting in an art gallery.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by thewave46

I'm not an expert on the differing construction standards between provinces, so I can't rightly say. I'm of the non-expert opinion that arbitrary standards should yield to reality of what the highway is likely to be used for over its expected lifespan. So, overbuilding a highway for a volume of traffic it will likely never handle is just as silly as under-building. Where A85 falls on that measure? I actually don't know.

I am happy to see the replacement of Route 185 as it was previously known to be inadequate for what it was asked to do.

As for Highway 69 in Ontario, well, there wasn't a detour before either.

Autoroute 85 isn't overbuilt. It's properly built.

The Autoroute 85 corridor is fairly developed with a fair number of reasonably sized settlements in it's general vicinity in addition to being the through highway through the region.

Highway 69 by comparison has relatively few settlements along its corridor.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

Autoroute 85 isn't overbuilt. It's properly built.

The Autoroute 85 corridor is fairly developed with a fair number of reasonably sized settlements in it's general vicinity in addition to being the through highway through the region.

Highway 69 by comparison has relatively few settlements along its corridor.

I suppose I'll have to make a trip out there and see for myself. Glad to hear that it's a nice drive.

Also, very nice pics!

[Innsertnamehere]

The interstate system can feel overbuilt in many locations but the standards set out ensure very consistent, fast drives across the US. You can pretty consistently average 70mph at least across the country from wherever to wherever. In many ways I wish Canada had a similar system. It comes close in the east (especially once A-85 is done), but it's much more inconsistent out west.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

The interstate system can feel overbuilt in many locations but the standards set out ensure very consistent, fast drives across the US. You can pretty consistently average 70mph at least across the country from wherever to wherever. In many ways I wish Canada had a similar system. It comes close in the east (especially once A-85 is done), but it's much more inconsistent out west.

I am torn about the Interstate system.

In one sense, it did give rural areas very good highways and decent consistency across the country. Eastern Canada does approach that consistency; the West is kind of a mix of good (Alberta/sections of BC) and less good.

However, Interstates just absolutely wrecked some downtowns by virtue of being a 1950s/1960s brainchild. Plow a highway through the middle of the city with abandon! Looking at a map of Downtown Kansas City makes the mind reel - how many city blocks got razed for that tangle of mess?

The damage in cities was less here because local/provincial governments had to foot more of the bill.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by thewave46

I am torn about the Interstate system.


However, Interstates just absolutely wrecked some downtowns by virtue of being a 1950s/1960s brainchild. Plow a highway through the middle of the city with abandon! Looking at a map of Downtown Kansas City makes the mind reel - how many city blocks got razed for that tangle of mess?

The damage in cities was less here because local/provincial governments had to foot more of the bill.

While it is very true that Washington footed nearly all of the bill for the Interstate system making it easy unlike in Canada, there was also a big factor that helped the US along it's track of inner-city destruction.........race.

The white flight in the US started before the 1950s and it increased significantly after that meaning these highways were built to funnel white suburbanites into their downtown jobs. Of course the new highways didn't get any city opposition because they went thru black neighbourhoods.

Due to the attitudes of the day, the opinions of black residents were completely irrelevant. As the black empowerment movement gained strength in the late 60s the opposition began to grow but by then the damage was done. In more "progressive" states kicking blacks out was more difficult come the 1960s so they used the guise of "urban renewal" by offering blacks shiny new home in nearby areas aka housing projects and we all know how well they turned out. The "projects" were not built because all of a sudden politicians started giving a damn about blacks but rather it was a the best way to move these people to make way for the Interstate.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

While it is very true that Washington footed nearly all of the bill for the Interstate system making it easy unlike in Canada, there was also a big factor that helped the US along it's track of inner-city destruction.........race.

The white flight in the US started before the 1950s and it increased significantly after that meaning these highways were built to funnel white suburbanites into their downtown jobs. Of course the new highways didn't get any city opposition because they went thru black neighbourhoods.

Due to the attitudes of the day, the opinions of black residents were completely irrelevant. As the black empowerment movement gained strength in the late 60s the opposition began to grow but by then the damage was done.

In fact, some people say that the viaduc in Vancouver by Science World has the same history.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

In fact, some people say that the viaduc in Vancouver by Science World has the same history.

It does, and so does the MacKay Bridge in Halifax.

[theman23]

So I had a close call at a roundabout the other day, and its led me to believe that most people in this country don't know how to use roundabouts (probably myself included). I've since observed that virtually no one signals their exit from the roundabout, and that people don't seem to think it makes a difference whether you're in the left or right lane of the roundabout when you're exiting.

Am I right here, or is it OK to leave a roundabout from the left lane or without signaling?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by theman23

So I had a close call at a roundabout the other day, and its led me to believe that most people in this country don't know how to use roundabouts (probably myself included). I've since observed that virtually no one signals their exit from the roundabout, and that people don't seem to think it makes a difference whether you're in the left or right lane of the roundabout when you're exiting.

Am I right here, or is it OK to leave a roundabout from the left lane or without signaling?

How I do it is if the lane must exit, no turn signal. If the lane has multiple exits, then the first one is a turn signal. None of our roundabouts have lanes that just circle.

[jamincan]

Originally Posted by theman23

So I had a close call at a roundabout the other day, and its led me to believe that most people in this country don't know how to use roundabouts (probably myself included). I've since observed that virtually no one signals their exit from the roundabout, and that people don't seem to think it makes a difference whether you're in the left or right lane of the roundabout when you're exiting.

Am I right here, or is it OK to leave a roundabout from the left lane or without signaling?

I don't think the MTO has standards for roundabouts still, so you still see variability, but in Waterloo Region, we have settled on a standard.

1. No lane changes in roundabouts, you exit from the lane you enter.
2. No left turns from right lanes and no right turns from left lanes. This means in practice that 1. is safe as you never cross paths with someone in the right lane.
3. Signal intention on entering roundabout as if it's a regular intersection. This has very poor compliance.
4. Signal your exit from the roundabout. This still has poor compliance, but is improving now that they are ubiquitous here.

This is an example of one of our larger, more complex roundabouts where I think the lane markings make it very clear what the intentions are. https://goo.gl/maps/ecXvQCkvV8H93FxB9

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by jamincan

I don't think the MTO has standards for roundabouts still, so you still see variability, but in Waterloo Region, we have settled on a standard.

1. No lane changes in roundabouts, you exit from the lane you enter.
2. No left turns from right lanes and no right turns from left lanes. This means in practice that 1. is safe as you never cross paths with someone in the right lane.
3. Signal intention on entering roundabout as if it's a regular intersection. This has very poor compliance.
4. Signal your exit from the roundabout. This still has poor compliance, but is improving now that they are ubiquitous here.

You forgot this one:
0. Everyone not already in the roundabout must wait.
This one has very low compliance rate too, yet it’s foundational to a roundabout working properly.
I’m myself guilty of this too. One time, at the infamous Ira Needles Boulevard & Erb Street roundabout, people weren’t moving in the roundabout*. Knowing how bad it could get, I decided to slip in with a car already in the roundabout to my left.
Now, I was intending to proceed straight afterwards (to stay on Erb), so I was really hoping that the said car wasn’t proceeding straight on Ira Needles. Otherwise, we would have crossed path.
Well… that car did exactly what I was hoping not to happen. Thankfully the worst thing that happened was a honk.
* Okay I remember why now. There was already a fender bender on one of the approaches at that time.