YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[Johnny Aussie]

Exciting times ahead with YVR leading the way in Western Canada with new routes and carriers…

Meanwhile October transborder update - large increase over September on all carriers - over 240 flights per week - so approx 34-35 per day with US carriers back to 12 daily

AIR CANADA 122 flights per week
ORD 7 CR9
DEN 7 CR9
HNL 4 7M8** resumed
OGG 4 7M8** resumed
LAS 7 321 ** new equip
LAX 21 7M8
SNA 4 223** new route
PHX 5 320
PDX 14 DH4
SAN 7 CR9
SFO 21 321/320/CR9
SEA 21 DH4

WESTJET 35 flights per week
LAX 7 73H
LAS 6 7M8
HNL 6 7M8
SFO 2 73W
SNA 2 73W
OGG 5 7M8
PSP 7 7M8

ALASKA 14 flights per week
SEA 14 DH4

AMERICAN 14 flights per week
DFW 14 319

DELTA 35 flights per week
SEA 35 E75

UNITED 21 flights per week
SFO 14 E75
DEN 7 319

[Johnny Aussie]

And the Intl Longhaul October update - increases over September with plenty of foreign carriers and and good variety of equipment:

AC LHR 7
AC DEL 7
AC NRT 5
AC ICN 3
AC PVG 2 (via ICN)
AC HKG 3 (via ICN)

BA LHR 7
LH FRA 7
LH MUC 5
AF CDG 5
KL AMS 4
TK IST 3

AI DEL 3
KE ICN 4
JL NRT 3
NH HND 3
CX HKG 2
CI TPE 1 (operates every other week)
BR TPE 2
CA CGO/PEK 1
3U CTU 1
MF XMN 1
PR MNL 3

Also 18 weekly shorthaul international (other than USA):

AC MEX 5
AC PVR 1
AM MEX 7
WS CUN 2
WS PVR 2-3
WS SJD 1-2

And of course on top of all that there are plenty of cargo-only heavy metal flights ongoing and the ongoing PPT tech stops.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by casper

I think that is what we all want to see. With the market out of SEA depressed clearly they need to find some way to augment that. YVR is the obvious choice.

However once they get use to operating tag-on flights out of Vancouver they will see the wisdom in their ways.

SQ doesn't want to operate tag flights. No airline does. It's adds to the costs of the flight, with additional fuel, airport fees, navigation fees, crew costs, etc.

With very few exceptions, airlines usually operate tag flights not because they want to, but because they have to. Several reasons:

Government restrictions (KL AMS-YYC-YEG this year is a perfect example)
Political reasons (CA PEK-YUL-HAV)
Operational need, due to range or airport altitude (TK MEX-CUN-IST)
Or because 1 of the 2 stops can't support the route on its own, or neither stop can.

The exception being flights that want to tap into the underserved 5th freedom rights between the stops. Such routes are becoming rare. CX canceling YVR-JFK is an example.

SQ doesn’t fit that exception as they apparently confirmed on Instagram they will not be exercising 5th freedom rights between YVR and SEA.

Therefore, SQ operating SIN-YVR-SEA is a sign that right now, neither market can support a stand alone non stop to SIN, in the current situation with COVID.

Originally Posted by ninjakafi_81

Do you think there is a possibility that SQ can make YVR a permanent destination?

Still too early to say. All indications right now (extremely seasonal, tag flight, Vaccinated Travel lane wording in press release) point to this being a COVID route. So the short answer right now is no.

Originally Posted by teriyaki

Covid taketh away, and Covid giveth.

I think this SQ route is a very interesting proposition that really only could exist in its current form with the specific market forces driven primarily from Covid and some of the geo-politics in Asia.

indeed.

Originally Posted by nname

They probably want to see if there's any demand before making decision beyond Feb 15...

And AF will switch to 789 according to their flight schedule.

Or they know very well that past the peak of the winter season, the route is not sustainable. It might not even be profitable at all.

Still, the fact they are starting YVR means they see something there. Like I said, it's a start. Let's see where it leads.

[Klazu]

Man, Singapore Airlines. That's something we will never see at YUL, that's for sure.

[Johnny Aussie]

^ I wouldn’t worry what some posters think about YVR. Sometimes it’s just easier to block. Without a playpen of their own they will troll others. Nice to see nothing has changed.

BUT…. YVR is definitely on a bit of a roll… TK, AI and SQ all announced new services and many carriers will most likely resume services in the next 12 - 18 months…

I’m still mainly interested in other Western Canada threads but the YEG thread still dominated by YYC talk… I think YYC is mentioned more than YEG itself (nothing has changed). Speaking of YYC it’s mainly dominated by Westjet now for longhaul and other international is mainly sun destination focussed.

YVR is attracting new carriers and destinations and slowly rebuilding its international route network.

[Nites]

^Do you think they will bring back the YVR to Sydney direct route any time soon?

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

^ I wouldn’t worry what some posters think about YVR. Sometimes it’s just easier to block. Without a playpen of their own they will troll others. Nice to see nothing has changed.

BUT…. YVR is definitely on a bit of a roll… TK, AI and SQ all announced new services and many carriers will most likely resume services in the next 12 - 18 months…

I’m still mainly interested in other Western Canada threads but the YEG thread still dominated by YYC talk… I think YYC is mentioned more than YEG itself (nothing has changed). Speaking of YYC it’s mainly dominated by Westjet now for longhaul and other international is mainly sun destination focussed.

YVR is attracting new carriers and destinations and slowly rebuilding its international route network.

It’s not all about Vancouver YVR all the time & yes they’re the busiest Airport in Western Canada still as Vancouver is attracting mostly Asian Airlines✈️ which is not surprising as they have the highest Asian population in Canada✅.

Vancouver Airport’s main competition Western Canada for Domestic, International and US passengers is Calgary YYC &
they don’t need to worry about Edmonton YEG which is mostly Domestic/Leisurely.

Yes WestJet’s main Western Canada hub is Calgary YYC & *If* seasonal flights to Asia on WestJet starts in about few years time to like Seoul,South Korea or Tokyo, Japan Calgary will likely be 1st as Vancouver or Toronto already has plenty of Asia flights already.

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Man, Singapore Airlines. That's something we will never see at YUL, that's for sure.

Same can be said Vancouver YVR will likely “Not” see any African airlines✈️as Montreal YUL has 1 of the highest Africa populations in Canada & is why they currently have the most Nonstop flights to Africa too!

[nname]

Originally Posted by Nites

^Do you think they will bring back the YVR to Sydney direct route any time soon?

Currently scheduled Dec 14 for AC and Dec 18 for QF.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Calfan12

Yes WestJet’s main Western Canada hub is Calgary YYC & *If* seasonal flights to Asia on WestJet starts in about few years time to like Seoul,South Korea or Tokyo, Japan Calgary will likely be 1st as Vancouver or Toronto already has plenty of Asia flights already.

The main issue with that is.. it is easy to attract passenger from YVR for flights to Europe. But for flight to Asia, having to backtrack from YVR to YYC will be a hard sell, especially as you said, there are already plenty of options available.

Chances are, you'll see WS focus on European flight before they attempt to tap into the Asian market. Probably not from their first batch of 787.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Calfan12

It’s not all about Vancouver YVR all the time & yes they’re the busiest Airport in Western Canada still as Vancouver is attracting mostly Asian Airlines✈️ which is not surprising as they have the highest Asian population in Canada✅.

Vancouver Airport’s main competition Western Canada for Domestic, International and US passengers is Calgary YYC &
they don’t need to worry about Edmonton YEG which is mostly Domestic/Leisurely

Yes WestJet’s main Western Canada hub is Calgary YYC & *If* seasonal flights to Asia on WestJet starts in about few years time to like Seoul,South Korea or Tokyo, Japan Calgary will likely be 1st as Vancouver or Toronto already has plenty of Asia flights already.

Not sure what you mean it’s not all about Vancouver all the time… this is the YVR thread so isn’t that what we are supposed to be talking about? Yet you always seem to bring up YYC (which you do in the YEG thread as well) in this thread yet you’re from Edmonton? Interesting.

Ummm… YVR is also attracting non-Asian airlines - BA, AF, KL, LH, TK, DE, WK, FI in addition to AM, QF and NZ of course… that’s 11 non Asian airlines. And AC will have a decent network to Europe next summer as well to LHR, DUB, FRA and ZRH and even Westjet daily nonstop to LGW.

So like I said Vancouver Airport in British Columbia Canada YVR ✈️ is the only airport attracting new foreign airlines/routes ✈️ in Western Canada including the recently added Air India and Singapore Airlines.

Look at my October schedule updates above for transborder and international… that paints a pretty good picture of what’s happening at YVR Vancouver Airport ✈️ in BC Canada.

Originally Posted by Calfan12

Same can be said Vancouver YVR will likely “Not” see any African airlines✈️as Montreal YUL has 1 of the highest Africa populations in Canada & is why they currently have the most Nonstop flights to Africa too!

Who cares?

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

Currently scheduled Dec 14 for AC and Dec 18 for QF.

Correct and both will be year-round!

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by nname

The main issue with that is.. it is easy to attract passenger from YVR for flights to Europe. But for flight to Asia, having to backtrack from YVR to YYC will be a hard sell, especially as you said, there are already plenty of options available.

Chances are, you'll see WS focus on European flight before they attempt to tap into the Asian market. Probably not from their first batch of 787.

Fair points. WS will probably not try to get Vancouver O&D for any YYC-Asia flight. Any such flight would have to work on its own with some connections from the east. I could see WS having one, maybe two Asian flights, all from YYC due to how competitive YVR has become.

[thenoflyzone]

^ the draw from YEG and YWG alone should be enough to make at least 1 or 2 Asian routes work from YYC.

Also, you’d be surprised at the amount of people ready to accept a backtrack if the price is right. A lot of Montrealers backtrack to Toronto to catch a flight to Europe, all to save a few bucks.

Originally Posted by Calfan12

Same can be said Vancouver YVR will likely “Not” see any African airlines✈️as Montreal YUL has 1 of the highest Africa populations in Canada & is why they currently have the most Nonstop flights to Africa too!

Don’t bother with klazu klown. He writes what he writes to try and get a reaction out of me. He thinks everything I post here is out of spite or something. It isn’t.

[Johnny Aussie]

More good news…

British Airways is bringing forward the A350-1000 early on the daily YVR-LHR route.

First flight will now be on Nov 12.

[casper]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

^ the draw from YEG and YWG alone should be enough to make at least 1 or 2 Asian routes work from YYC.

Also, you’d be surprised at the amount of people ready to accept a backtrack if the price is right. A lot of Montrealers backtrack to Toronto to catch a flight to Europe, all to save a few bucks.

….

Given AC was able to make one Asia flight out of Calgary work it would not surprise me if WS could as well. the to options are Icheon or Narita. My vet would be on Narita.

[nname]

Originally Posted by casper

Given AC was able to make one Asia flight out of Calgary work it would not surprise me if WS could as well. the to options are Icheon or Narita. My vet would be on Narita.

AC couldn't really make it work even before the pandemic. It go from standalone YYC-NRT, to combined YYZ-YYC-NRT, to summer seasonal, to now suspended till at least W22...

Even HU had trouble with its sole Chinese route to YYC according to posts from the YYC thread...

[Johnny Aussie]

^ shucks huh?

Meanwhile French Bee was back at YVR for the stopover between ORY and PPT.
Perhaps a one off or perhaps ongoing again for a bit.
TN and AF continuing to operate via YVR as well to/from PPT and CDG

[ninjakafi_81]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

^ shucks huh?

Meanwhile French Bee was back at YVR for the stopover between ORY and PPT.
Perhaps a one off or perhaps ongoing again for a bit.
TN and AF continuing to operate via YVR as well to/from PPT and CDG

From what I gathered French Bee is going to be sticking around until the end of this month before going back to SFO. TN is going back to LAX mid November and I assume AF will follow suit as well.

=============================

CZ will continue to suspend CAN-YVR services to at least to the end of March 2022.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by ninjakafi_81

From what I gathered French Bee is going to be sticking around until the end of this month before going back to SFO. TN is going back to LAX mid November and I assume AF will follow suit as well.

=============================

CZ will continue to suspend CAN-YVR services to at least to the end of March 2022.

Yes the PPT party is ending… as the world slowly returns to some sort of normalcy.

Meanwhile CZ still flying multiple cargo flights per week on pax aircraft (mainly 789s) from CGO and CAN. Plane spotters won’t know the difference!

And… Sunwing about to kick off sun flights again as well.