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  #101  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2021, 2:28 PM
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Unfortunately this is shaping up to be another lost opportunity to produce quality architecture that incorporates historic buildings. The design has the appearance of a combined Joseph Howe Building and One Gov. Place. If the new structure were set back approx. 6 ft. on the Granville side it would give the Acadian Recorder Bldg. and the Dennis building more prominence. I know only the facades will remain but the new structure could form the set back. We also have another example of a blank wall flying under the radar until it is built and then people realize what a mistake it was.
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  #102  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2021, 4:01 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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I'm also curious how the new facades will turn out. If they are high quality stone they will look okay. I am not a big fan of the style where holes get filled in with abstract modernist representations of historic buildings (low detail blocks with setbacks/gaps), but then again it's challenging to recreate detailed historic facades and this isn't the spot for punchier modernist architecture.
Is the re-creation of detailed historic facades something that we could realistically hope for? I agree that it would be great to see some properly re-created historical buildings, but I'm not aware of any that have been done on a large scale such as this. There have been some smaller brick buildings that have been done well, but even these are few and far between.

At this point in Halifax, I'm not too picky or hopeful for great architecture, so an average one like this looks good to me. I don't dare to dream of having 'great' historical preservation or re-creation, as I don't think there would be enough of a business case for developers to spend the extra money to make it look 'right' to those who care. As long as there is no political will to make it happen, mediocre projects will continue to be approved (which isn't all bad as it at least allows developments to happen and density to increase) and places like the "historic Barrington Street" area will have their historic 'feel' diluted somewhat.
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  #103  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2021, 5:23 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Is the re-creation of detailed historic facades something that we could realistically hope for? I agree that it would be great to see some properly re-created historical buildings, but I'm not aware of any that have been done on a large scale such as this. There have been some smaller brick buildings that have been done well, but even these are few and far between.

At this point in Halifax, I'm not too picky or hopeful for great architecture, so an average one like this looks good to me. I don't dare to dream of having 'great' historical preservation or re-creation, as I don't think there would be enough of a business case for developers to spend the extra money to make it look 'right' to those who care. As long as there is no political will to make it happen, mediocre projects will continue to be approved (which isn't all bad as it at least allows developments to happen and density to increase) and places like the "historic Barrington Street" area will have their historic 'feel' diluted somewhat.
This is a very high profile site and should have maximum attention afforded to it. 10-15 years ago HRM was hungry for development .....any development but that is no longer the case. There should be some attempt to reflect the historic streetscape of Barrington and Granville in a modern functional building. In addition, this building is directly across the street from historic Province House. Prime opportunity sites like this are in very high demand and will be for the foreseeable future and if developer 'A' doesn't want to reflect the importance of a significant landmark site then perhaps developer 'B' would.
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  #104  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2021, 5:40 PM
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This is a very high profile site and should have maximum attention afforded to it. 10-15 years ago HRM was hungry for development .....any development but that is no longer the case. There should be some attempt to reflect the historic streetscape of Barrington and Granville in a modern functional building. In addition, this building is directly across the street from historic Province House. Prime opportunity sites like this are in very high demand and will be for the foreseeable future and if developer 'A' doesn't want to reflect the importance of a significant landmark site then perhaps developer 'B' would.
There's "what can be done" and "what will be done". I think the potential exists to build higher quality; certainly in other comparable cities, and probably in Halifax too since there is a group of firms that still specialize in masonry and do great work (usually deployed as restoration/recreation rather than for new development). I think they could have done a simple Georgian style for the Granville streetwall and it might not even have cost a lot more.

Those abstract box representations of historically-scaled buildings seem like more of an architectural style decision than anything. Of course we also need to acknowledge that limiting the height of this site limits the budget for the lower floors.

I would guess that a lot of the cost and apparent quality will come down to the choice of materials, not so much the style per se. The elevation drawing says "manufactured stone" (unfortunately) and "anodized or plated metal cladding" (seems like that could be a lot of things). Sandstone and Queen's Marque style Muntz or copper would look good.

Part of what's frustrating about say the Roy is that it's close to being very good. Same for the Discovery Centre redo. Often the Halifax projects seem to fall down on small details that have a big aesthetic impact. I could see this improving in the 2020's just as the 2010's brought a lot of improvements. I think historic and character preservation are improving too but it's a race.
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  #105  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2021, 6:37 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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This is a very high profile site and should have maximum attention afforded to it. 10-15 years ago HRM was hungry for development .....any development but that is no longer the case. There should be some attempt to reflect the historic streetscape of Barrington and Granville in a modern functional building. In addition, this building is directly across the street from historic Province House. Prime opportunity sites like this are in very high demand and will be for the foreseeable future and if developer 'A' doesn't want to reflect the importance of a significant landmark site then perhaps developer 'B' would.
I agree, but can you think of any examples (in Halifax) where this has been done on a scale this large? I can't, but would love to be proven wrong.

The closest I can think of would be the Roy, but it didn't even attempt to replicate what was there before, and it turned out looking like a (IMHO) lower budget brick building built in the 1960s or 1970s... (it's been discussed before in other threads).

While I love the optimism here, I don't see a lot of momentum building in this direction, especially downtown where one would expect this to be the case.

That said, there are several examples (like the old Zellers bldg, and the Keith bldg) where the facade restoration has turned out to be quite good, and I'm thankful of that.
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  #106  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2021, 8:03 PM
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It is subjective but I think the Province House area is likely to be quite nice when this (plus the deferred Province House grounds work) is done, even if Press Block is mostly a box with some manufactured stone at street level. There is a larger package that includes buildings like the Bank of NS etc. and is weirdly compromised right now.

Furthermore the population density right around the traditional office district of George Street is low to nonexistent so projects like Press Block and Queen's Marque may go a long way in giving it a more mixed use feel.

There's a lot of potential around this part of town and it's hard to think of many cities that have this level of history and growth together. Most cities are either much newer and growing a lot or are historic and not changing much.
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  #107  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2021, 3:19 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
I agree, but can you think of any examples (in Halifax) where this has been done on a scale this large? I can't, but would love to be proven wrong.

The closest I can think of would be the Roy, but it didn't even attempt to replicate what was there before, and it turned out looking like a (IMHO) lower budget brick building built in the 1960s or 1970s... (it's been discussed before in other threads).

While I love the optimism here, I don't see a lot of momentum building in this direction, especially downtown where one would expect this to be the case.

That said, there are several examples (like the old Zellers bldg, and the Keith bldg) where the facade restoration has turned out to be quite good, and I'm thankful of that.
There has been a concerted effort to preserve or rebuild, with quality, Halifax architecture and hopefully that trend continues. However, I don’t see this happening with the Press Block and the blank wall behind the Acadian Recorder Bldg. is one area that needs a rework. Directly across the street you have an example of respecting Halifax historic architecture with the rebuild of the Kelly Bldg. façade using quality materials of sandstone and copper. Hopefully the copper is replaced on the Acadian Recorder Bldg. and high quality materials are used at street level for the new build.

Below are links to projects that are a total rebuild or a reassemble or preservation of facades that enhance the historic city centre. Given the location of the Press Block I would hope due consideration will be given to the importance of this project and the effect the design will have for years to come.

• 1. Saint George’s Round Church
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6531604,...0FeDKFHFtqSztMjbBxGQg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
• 2. 1544 Summer St
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6421022,...ZiDqFYab_PYS1yTUm1_Ug!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
• 3. Wooden monkey
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6469637,...Wc6CC4oJCKd7g39PLo5qw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
• 4. King’s Library
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6380664,...AFutU9kf8nb7Q7TrOYPUw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
5. Zellers reassemble
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6462477,...itch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
• 6. Barrington Inn – façade reassemble
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6493715,...MixbH_k2YEeLqSa4LhGXw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
• 7. Kelly Bldg façade rebuild
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6487849,...2Yi6Q3w7QgxOPzaucmuxw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
8. Roy façade rebuild
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6462477,..._JEf3icRQ08F-jJMwWM7A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
9. Founders Sq. building and façade preservation
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6476223,...VEGf2ITTh-nGmGpcEgojg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
10. Waterside – façade preservation
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6494747,...tihjpgC3AeLVqN74svs1A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
11. Historic properties – 100% renovation – rebuild
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6500594,...lZAQDeqKuUZmmXQOAyEbw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
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Last edited by Empire; Oct 10, 2021 at 4:16 PM.
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  #108  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2021, 4:35 PM
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I never really cared for that King's library built in the 90's but there's another sympathetic older styled building nearby on the King's campus. It's not very prominent but there's also a sandstone addition to the NRC building on Oxford that has aged pretty well. And there's a little "alley" there with modern stone construction on both sides that is kind of interesting.

TD Tower is IMO good from start to finish. Nice modern stonework, attractive glass tower above.

The stone portion of The Alexander is another modest example and The Governor in behind may turn out to be decent. The Governor seems high end compared to most Halifax projects; it may end up with a higher than average quality of finish.

I think with Press Block's success may come down to details that we won't know much about until it's almost done. If the old buildings get nice restorations and function more or less normally plus some nice storefronts get added on Barrington, that will be pretty good.
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  #109  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2021, 5:01 PM
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I never really cared for that King's library built in the 90's but there's another sympathetic older styled building nearby on the King's campus. It's not very prominent but there's also a sandstone addition to the NRC building on Oxford that has aged pretty well. And there's a little "alley" there with modern stone construction on both sides that is kind of interesting.

TD Tower is IMO good from start to finish. Nice modern stonework, attractive glass tower above.

The stone portion of The Alexander is another modest example and The Governor in behind may turn out to be decent. The Governor seems high end compared to most Halifax projects; it may end up with a higher than average quality of finish.

I think with Press Block's success may come down to details that we won't know much about until it's almost done. If the old buildings get nice restorations and function more or less normally plus some nice storefronts get added on Barrington, that will be pretty good.
Perhaps the King's library could have been better but I wonder what the thought process was for the design of the Killam Memorial Library?

Killam Memorial Library
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6369224,...YBSiDZWseZ8o4_x0mwCWg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
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  #110  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2021, 11:46 AM
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1960s/70s Brutalism at its best. It was de rigeur at the time, just like the nearby Life Sciences building. At least the interior of the Killam was easy to navigate, unlike the latter which was a maze inside.
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  #111  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2021, 4:58 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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There has been a concerted effort to preserve or rebuild, with quality, Halifax architecture and hopefully that trend continues. However, I don’t see this happening with the Press Block and the blank wall behind the Acadian Recorder Bldg. is one area that needs a rework. Directly across the street you have an example of respecting Halifax historic architecture with the rebuild of the Kelly Bldg. façade using quality materials of sandstone and copper. Hopefully the copper is replaced on the Acadian Recorder Bldg. and high quality materials are used at street level for the new build.

Below are links to projects that are a total rebuild or a reassemble or preservation of facades that enhance the historic city centre. Given the location of the Press Block I would hope due consideration will be given to the importance of this project and the effect the design will have for years to come.

• 1. Saint George’s Round Church
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6531604,...0FeDKFHFtqSztMjbBxGQg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
• 2. 1544 Summer St
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6421022,...ZiDqFYab_PYS1yTUm1_Ug!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
• 3. Wooden monkey
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6469637,...Wc6CC4oJCKd7g39PLo5qw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
• 4. King’s Library
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6380664,...AFutU9kf8nb7Q7TrOYPUw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
5. Zellers reassemble
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6462477,...itch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
• 6. Barrington Inn – façade reassemble
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6493715,...MixbH_k2YEeLqSa4LhGXw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
• 7. Kelly Bldg façade rebuild
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6487849,...2Yi6Q3w7QgxOPzaucmuxw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
8. Roy façade rebuild
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6462477,..._JEf3icRQ08F-jJMwWM7A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
9. Founders Sq. building and façade preservation
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6476223,...VEGf2ITTh-nGmGpcEgojg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
10. Waterside – façade preservation
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6494747,...tihjpgC3AeLVqN74svs1A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
11. Historic properties – 100% renovation – rebuild
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6500594,...lZAQDeqKuUZmmXQOAyEbw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Thanks for your response and taking the time to provide links, but to be clear I was responding to someone123's post about abstract representations of historic buildings, whereby the new construction part of this project is trying to roughly imitate the shape and massing of the Cragg and Birk's buildings that were torn down decades ago. I appreciate the nod to the past, but agree with his assertion that this style of architecture isn't completely in keeping with the historical Barrington Street district.

I was questioning the concept that perhaps the developer could have gone further to try to more accurately represent those missing buildings with newly-built facades that looked convincingly like the historic buildings that once occupied that lot, and I was doubtful that this would/could ever occur on this lot, even though it's one of the locations with the highest visibility in the downtown. I see this discussion as a continuation of the suggestion of replicating some of the lost historical buildings on the Cogswell site, such as the Pentagon Bldg that was torn down in the early 1960s - I don't see that happening either.

While there have been some efforts to preserve facades, or even recreate them, the efforts have been all over the map. The worst of which, IMHO, were the Roy and the Summer St. examples - they appear to be half-hearted reproductions at best. Flip back and forth between the new Roy and the old Roy, and note the configuration and masonry details - it's obvious when you do a direct comparison. Mind you, I'm sure it looks fantastic to 99% of the people who see it, and that's what counts.

St. George's round church was an amazing effort, but it was a repair of fire damage, not new construction. I also look at Historic Properties as being a special project where the purpose of the project was historical restoration/reproduction. This project wouldn't have had any meaning otherwise.

The Waterside was well done, but also remember there was nothing done to preserve the 1840 building that housed the Sweet Basil Bistro - it was demolished as a shot across the bow to those who were fighting for preservation of the other buildings that were eventually stripped of their character and left to be lipstick on a glass box. They did preserve the facades well, even though there is now no life behind them...

I do have an appreciation for facadism when it's well done, but IMHO it's still not as good as preserving aspects of the actual building into the project, for example, as was done in the Dillon project.

I would love to see some accurate replication of lost historical buildings of larger/prominent stature, but I will stick to my contention that I haven't seen one yet in Halifax. So as much as I would like to, I can't write a glowing review of historical building reproduction in Halifax - but again, most people don't really care - it seems most are more concerned with losing a friggen mural than the loss of historical character - and that's fine with me. I've come to terms with it and have tempered my disappointment and my expectations... so this project looks good to me, it's just nice to see that empty lot finally having some activity on it, and for sure it will help the downtown overall.
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  #112  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2021, 5:19 PM
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To me, re-creating a new version of an old building just seems foolish. As was noted, when it had been tried in the past, the results seem mixed at best. If the building cannot economically be saved and is not a historically significant structure, then it is best (IMO) to say goodbye to it and put up something that represents our times today. In virtually every case you end up with far more usable space on the same lot, which makes more economic sense for the developer, and which in theory at least should give you a higher-quality building. Facadism is also not something I am a fan of but it seems to be a favorite to placate those who value history. The version I like best is ironically the TD Canada Trust building on Argyle, done in the '80s, with the stone face of the previous church on the site captured inside the lobby behind a glass curtain wall. It still looks like a modern building from the street but the history greets you when you enter.

I am also of two minds when it comes to having new structures imitating old, vanished buildings. To me they run a great risk of becoming a dreaded faux-Victorian with red brick and styrofoam detailing, which I have never found to look good. Precast concrete often is asked to imitate granite and never pulls it off either. I would be far more inclined to put those resources towards better materials and design for a modern building. They can be made to look distinctive and good, but we just don't get many of them locally.
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  #113  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2021, 12:53 PM
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The bar has been set high by the TD addition and Queen’s Marque. Top quality design and materials that reflect aspects of the immediate streetscape make them a great addition to the historic centre. The Press Block is an important link in the district around Province House and quality materials and design would play a key role in the final outcome. As mentioned earlier, a cornice on the "Cragg" section would really enhance the streewall at Barrington and George as it would sync nicely with the Dennis bldg. cornice.

Hopefully the blank wall facing Parade Square can be redesigned given the high visibility it will have. The wall could be bricked to match the Granville side and false windows installed that would still meet the fire code. The red blank wall of the Dillon is an example of why the setback bylaw should be reconsidered so we don’t have it repeated.

One Government Place next door fits into the “some development is better than no development” category. At least this building used granite as cladding.

One Government Pl. – Granville St. Elevation
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.647858,-...kCD_40Hg-Ypso4xDX9Pyw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

One Government Pl. – Barrington St. Elevation
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6474422,...oaplytNvm2-u3dIANsJYg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

The Dillon – Side facing harbour
https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.6449219,-...hEA5Bv47SDJBaDv-HHP9w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
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Last edited by Empire; Oct 12, 2021 at 1:34 PM.
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  #114  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2021, 1:55 PM
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The Waterside was well done, but also remember there was nothing done to preserve the 1840 building that housed the Sweet Basil Bistro - it was demolished as a shot across the bow to those who were fighting for preservation of the other buildings that were eventually stripped of their character and left to be lipstick on a glass box. They did preserve the facades well, even though there is now no life behind them...
That's an interesting take on it. You're referring to the Violet Clarke building, which was not a registered heritage property, the City of Halifax's Landmarks Commission having specifically excluded it along with several others, saying "although these buildings were of interest, it was not felt that they had sufficient architectural and/or historic merit to include their names in the list of buildings recommended for designation”.

It's hard to see its demolition by Armour as a "shot across the bow" to heritage advocates, since it was unique among the buildings included in the Waterside development as the only one without heritage status. There wasn't a damn thing they could do to stop the demolition. They did have relevant arguments to make about the other buildings (though ultimately, when litigated, they didn't prevail).

My understanding at the time was that there was literally nothing that could have been done with the building except maintain it exactly as it was or demolish it. There was no economically feasible way for Armour to convert it to a different use within its development.

Last edited by Saul Goode; Oct 12, 2021 at 2:59 PM.
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  #115  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2021, 3:41 PM
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The bar has been set high by the TD addition and Queen’s Marque. Top quality design and materials that reflect aspects of the immediate streetscape make them a great addition to the historic centre.

I keep waiting for Queen's Marque to favorably impress me. While they undoubtedly spent a lot of money on sandstone and other exterior finishes, the building as a whole just does not strike me as a good design.
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  #116  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2021, 6:03 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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That's an interesting take on it. You're referring to the Violet Clarke building, which was not a registered heritage property, the City of Halifax's Landmarks Commission having specifically excluded it along with several others, saying "although these buildings were of interest, it was not felt that they had sufficient architectural and/or historic merit to include their names in the list of buildings recommended for designation”.

It's hard to see its demolition by Armour as a "shot across the bow" to heritage advocates, since it was unique among the buildings included in the Waterside development as the only one without heritage status. There wasn't a damn thing they could do to stop the demolition. They did have relevant arguments to make about the other buildings (though ultimately, when litigated, they didn't prevail).

My understanding at the time was that there was literally nothing that could have been done with the building except maintain it exactly as it was or demolish it. There was no economically feasible way for Armour to convert it to a different use within its development.
I'm going totally by memory, so this could not be completely accurate, but what I recall from the situation was that there actually had been heritage designation for the building (it was built in the 1840s) but there was some kind of slip-up in the paperwork that made it invalid (don't know the details and I didn't have any info that wasn't available to the public).

The 'shot across the bow' was not my original idea, rather (IIRC) it was reported at the time that Armour was frustrated by the holdup caused by heritage advocates and thus sent the wrecking crew in without notice to bring down the building with the idea that the others could be next. Perhaps this was bravado or media click-generation, but that's how I remember it.

It sounds like you were actually involved in the situation, if that's the case I am not in a position to argue, nor do I want to, actually.

Regardless, it appeared to be yet another case where Halifax has lost a large portion of its various heritage buildings incrementally, to the point that there are really not that many intact examples yet, but quite a few facades remaining. This is better than nothing, but in reality not much more than an in situ 3D photo album of what was once there. It seems weird that one of the oldest and most historic cities in Canada hasn't retained more of its heritage buildings, but it is what it is.

I enjoy looking at historic buildings, and feel they help ground a city by keeping links to its past and how we got here, but others don't have that appreciation, and I accept that. I don't consider myself to be a 'heritage advocate', but really just somebody who appreciates it, but I do feel that those in charge have some responsibility to keep some of it around for future generations. I recall in pre-covid times, discussing heritage buildings with various people I would meet when I was out and about, and oddly it seemed like the younger generation had more appreciation for these buildings than older people. Yet the older people seem to be the ones making the decisions to let them go (just my generalizations based on my experience, though). Oh well.

Back to the Press Block...
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  #117  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2021, 6:09 PM
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One thing that is/was odd about Halifax is how the media unquestioningly parrot back comments from developers or the municipality. Part of that, years ago, amounted to uncritically repeating that certain buildings were uneconomical or too far gone to save (Sweet Basil block, Kelly building, Dennis at one point). It's hard for me to reconcile this with cities like Paris existing at all. How is it that Paris can save many square kilometers of massive and complex buildings while in Halifax the few blocks of intact old commercial buildings are considered an impossible burden? Or you could just look at Portland ME.

In reality I think it's just that this perspective is driven by property owners and developers who want the highest possible return from their investment. Often they buy up the properties to redevelop, and "economical" is code for "highest return".

I mostly blame the municipality and province for this. They did some good things to preserve or reconstruct buildings in the past (how come Louisbourg exists but it's impossible to create something much more modest today in Halifax?) but that seemed to fall apart around the 80's/90's as a sense set in that Halifax was economically "troubled" (is it any more troubled than Spain or Greece?) and couldn't afford nice things. I think it would have been possible in the 80's onward to invest a little more in heritage preservation each year and by 2021 be in a vastly better place. But this can still be done starting in 2021, or any time really. There are tons of heritage buildings in a poor state of repair and at risk of demolition today, mostly outside of downtown. Sympathetic high quality heritage renos are probably one of the cheapest/nicest things that could be done to improve the quality of the urban environment. In many cases this amounts only to pulling off some vinyl siding and painting or some wood detailing work.

I believe the NIMBYs should take some blame too because they can be so inflexible about where or how much development happens. They inadvertently put a lot of extra development pressure on the commercial heritage areas and the city/province didn't step in to protect them adequately.
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  #118  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2021, 7:04 PM
Saul Goode Saul Goode is offline
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
I'm going totally by memory, so this could not be completely accurate, but what I recall from the situation was that there actually had been heritage designation for the building (it was built in the 1840s) but there was some kind of slip-up in the paperwork that made it invalid (don't know the details and I didn't have any info that wasn't available to the public).
Your memory is actually pretty darn good, save for a few minor quibbles.

The matter of whether the building actually was registered was litigated in the NS Supreme Court. The upshot, and the evidence was pretty clear, is that the Violet Clarke property's address, 1872 Upper Water, was mistakenly added to the register, while the intention had been to register 1869 Upper Water, across the street. It was a simple clerical error. The court found that (1) not only was any purported registration done in error, by virtue of the incorrect address but (2) it was not recorded appropriately at the Registry of Deeds in any event, so would have been invalid even if the correct address had been used. Whether it was registered incorrectly or never registered is a legal point we could slice and dice (I lean to the latter, FWIW), but they amount to the same thing.

The important point is that it was never intended to be registered, despite the disingenuous way that some heritage activists characterized the court's decision. As I noted in my earlier post, the city's Landmarks Commission had specifically excluded it from a list of properties intended to be registered back in the 70s.

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The 'shot across the bow' was not my original idea, rather (IIRC) it was reported at the time that Armour was frustrated by the holdup caused by heritage advocates and thus sent the wrecking crew in without notice to bring down the building with the idea that the others could be next. Perhaps this was bravado or media click-generation, but that's how I remember it.
I take your point, but I think it would have been a hollow threat. It's doubtful that Armour ever would have been able to get "straight" demolition permits (i.e., without some heritage accommodation, such as maintaining facades). But as you alluded, some media bravado just for effect would not have been out of character for Ben McCrea.

And, just for the record, I'm largely in agreement with your comments. I just tend to be (maybe overly) fastidious about facts, even when they're not necessarily on my side (just ask my long-suffering family...)

Last edited by Saul Goode; Oct 12, 2021 at 7:15 PM.
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  #119  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2021, 7:14 PM
Saul Goode Saul Goode is offline
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
One thing that is/was odd about Halifax is how the media unquestioningly parrot back comments from developers or the municipality. Part of that, years ago, amounted to uncritically repeating that certain buildings were uneconomical or too far gone to save (Sweet Basil block, Kelly building, Dennis at one point).
Point taken, though I would just comment that in the "Sweet Basil Block" case, the numbers were pretty darn convincing - to the point that, tellingly, neither Heritage Trust of NS nor HRM even bothered to try to challenge them when the matter was litigated.
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  #120  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2021, 7:28 PM
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someone123 someone123 is offline
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Originally Posted by Saul Goode View Post
Point taken, though I would just comment that in the "Sweet Basil Block" case, the numbers were pretty darn convincing - to the point that, tellingly, neither Heritage Trust of NS nor HRM even bothered to try to challenge them when the matter was litigated.
I would argue the numbers depend on many factors like upkeep done over the years, property taxes (which may depend on development potential), and heritage incentives. I'm not necessarily against the development per se, but I think the new street level construction is so-so. I have no issues with the Duke St side.

I seem to recall comments about how these buildings are built on fill and maybe piles and that made them hard to preserve. But are they any more challenging than Morse's Teas or the warehouses 1 block closer to the water?

Another thing I remember is that one of the facades on the Hollis side collapsed, was rebuilt, and now has ugly vents in some of its windows. 1801 Hollis, built in the 80's, looks better IMO.

And of course let's all note that Waterside was cut down to a very low height for no good reason, reducing the potential budget.
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