Western Expresso - Page 227

WinCitySparky · #**4521** Posted **Oct 9, 2021, 9:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

What percentage of those who are currently homeless do you believe "don't want to be helped?"

More than you realize

zalf · #**4522** Posted **Oct 9, 2021, 10:30 PM**

Sure, some non-zero number of people prefer to sleep rough. Fine. You can't force people to live a particular way. But some other much larger non-zero number are amenable to having somewhere out of the elements as a place to call home.

It's better for recipients and it's better for the rest of society too. And this isn't some fantasyland, pie-in-the-sky dream. Other countries have done this - Finland, notably.

thebasketballgeek · #**4523** Posted **Oct 9, 2021, 11:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WinCitySparky

More than you realize

Is it more then the people who need the help? I don’t think so.

It’s quite simple, everyone who wants housing should be able to get it. Adequate housing is a human right after all. Even if people actively avoid wanting to be within the constraints of society and don’t want to be sheltered that should be their choice. Until the city has the political will to provide this for homeless people this needs to be recognized as a problem. Once the city has exhausted the options then we can decide how to move forward with homeless people who do not want housing.

WinCitySparky · #**4524** Posted **Oct 10, 2021, 12:43 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

Is it more then the people who need the help? I don’t think so.

It’s quite simple, everyone who wants housing should be able to get it. Adequate housing is a human right after all. Even if people actively avoid wanting to be within the constraints of society and don’t want to be sheltered that should be their choice. Until the city has the political will to provide this for homeless people this needs to be recognized as a problem. Once the city has exhausted the options then we can decide how to move forward with homeless people who do not want housing.

Cool, in the meantime get them the f out of the bus shelters

esquire · #**4525** Posted **Oct 10, 2021, 3:01 PM**

Just in terms of visibility, homelessness was barely a thing 30 years ago compared to now. Is that the difference between then and now... drugs?

Malcsta · #**4526** Posted **Oct 10, 2021, 4:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Just in terms of visibility, homelessness was barely a thing 30 years ago compared to now. Is that the difference between then and now... drugs?

It's definitely a huge driving force.

OTA in Winnipeg · #**4527** Posted **Oct 10, 2021, 9:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Just in terms of visibility, homelessness was barely a thing 30 years ago compared to now. Is that the difference between then and now... drugs?

Yes. When marijuana became legal, cheap meth hit the streets of not only Winnipeg but all major centers of Canada. A five dollar "point" will get you high for 12 hours. This is a major problem even in Kenora, Ontario.

Wigglez · #**4528** Posted **Oct 10, 2021, 10:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

Yes. When marijuana became legal, cheap meth hit the streets of not only Winnipeg but all major centers of Canada. A five dollar "point" will get you high for 12 hours. This is a major problem even in Kenora, Ontario.

I'd love to see any studies or evidence linking the legalization of marijuana in Canada directly to the increase in homelessness and addiction. Keeping in mind if you link me anything from some no-name opinion piece Facebook mom group, I will follow you around laughing.

davequanbury · #**4529** Posted **Oct 11, 2021, 1:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WinCitySparky

That is what people just don’t seem to grasp. There is no fixing them to function unless they 100% buy in and are willing, and trying to think about the solution from where we stand is as much the problem, and why there has been no solution except feel-good bandaid bullshit.

For you to suggest that just because someone is high and doesn't want to go to a shelter for the night that they don't want help is preposterous.

Here are a few reasons why people would rather sleep rough than go to a shelter: they are a woman, they are LGBT...., they are an immigrant, they are Indigenous, they know someone they don't get along with is staying there, they don't want to risk having stuff stolen, they are high. None of that has anything to do with not wanting help.

The only bullshit here is your collection of misconceptions about being homelessness. Everybody wants a home. Period. If they are turning down what someone else calls help, its because they are addicted, traumatized, or otherwise dubious of the offer; not because they don't want help.
They are just people looking for safety and stability and a place to call their own.

It's people like you that we need more buy-in from.

1ajs · #**4530** Posted **Oct 11, 2021, 3:19 PM**

people are people u can only help those that want help many dont. and with how industry has become a money making thing around these issues u have another problem.

as for meth growth it did boom with how the feds cut them out of the market by essentialy banning that whole supply chain from being apart of the new market

WinCitySparky · #**4531** Posted **Oct 11, 2021, 4:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by davequanbury

For you to suggest that just because someone is high and doesn't want to go to a shelter for the night that they don't want help is preposterous.

Here are a few reasons why people would rather sleep rough than go to a shelter: they are a woman, they are LGBT...., they are an immigrant, they are Indigenous, they know someone they don't get along with is staying there, they don't want to risk having stuff stolen, they are high. None of that has anything to do with not wanting help.

The only bullshit here is your collection of misconceptions about being homelessness. Everybody wants a home. Period. If they are turning down what someone else calls help, its because they are addicted, traumatized, or otherwise dubious of the offer; not because they don't want help.
They are just people looking for safety and stability and a place to call their own.

It's people like you that we need more buy-in from.

Get them out of the bus shacks

cllew · #**4532** Posted **Oct 11, 2021, 4:40 PM**

deleted

NewIreland · #**4533** Posted **Oct 11, 2021, 5:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by davequanbury

For you to suggest that just because someone is high and doesn't want to go to a shelter for the night that they don't want help is preposterous.

Here are a few reasons why people would rather sleep rough than go to a shelter: they are a woman, they are LGBT...., they are an immigrant, they are Indigenous, they know someone they don't get along with is staying there, they don't want to risk having stuff stolen, they are high. None of that has anything to do with not wanting help.

The only bullshit here is your collection of misconceptions about being homelessness. Everybody wants a home. Period. If they are turning down what someone else calls help, its because they are addicted, traumatized, or otherwise dubious of the offer; not because they don't want help.
They are just people looking for safety and stability and a place to call their own.

It's people like you that we need more buy-in from.

Excuses, excuses... no wonder compassion fatigue is so common around here. The number one reason why they don't go is because they don't want help. You can't help people who don't want to be helped. This is a fundamental tenet of counselling psychology.

thebasketballgeek · #**4534** Posted **Oct 11, 2021, 6:37 PM**

For the people that don’t want help and are partaking in consuming drugs that are illegal why don’t we just send them to jail?

I mean our police force exists for a reason and they got a fancy new headquarters about a 10 minute walk from where this issue is most present down Portage. A yearly budget of $300 million and the drug issue is worsening while crime is rising what are they even doing over there?

1ajs · #**4535** Posted **Oct 11, 2021, 7:47 PM**

jail doesnt work it just makes them sink further down a hole when they get out

Wigglez · #**4536** Posted **Oct 11, 2021, 8:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ajs

jail doesnt work it just makes them sink further down a hole when they get out

This is correct. Using the police to enforce drug laws and jail time on addicts just results in someone gaining a criminal record which makes getting out of the addiction cycle that much harder.

If anyone is actually interested in learning about this topic it's very complex. I would encourage anyone/everyone to gather better knowledge and a better understanding of the issues. The last 70~ years of drug enforcement and blaming/punishing addicts for being addicts just keeps the cycle going. Everything we have done has failed and doubling down will just keep us down this path.

Drug addiction isn't a legal issue, it's a medical issue.

NewIreland · #**4537** Posted **Oct 11, 2021, 9:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wigglez

This is correct. Using the police to enforce drug laws and jail time on addicts just results in someone gaining a criminal record which makes getting out of the addiction cycle that much harder.

If anyone is actually interested in learning about this topic it's very complex. I would encourage anyone/everyone to gather better knowledge and a better understanding of the issues. The last 70~ years of drug enforcement and blaming/punishing addicts for being addicts just keeps the cycle going. Everything we have done has failed and doubling down will just keep us down this path.

Drug addiction isn't a legal issue, it's a medical issue.

Back when we were putting everyone in jail, the drug epidemic was not even close to being as bad as it is today. Thirty years of "reform" has resulted in billions of dollars for big pharmaceutical companies, "rehabilitation" centers and homeless shelters. We've built an entire billion dollar economy around "helping addicts recover"... Now, nobody wants to solve the problem. Too many 100k+ salaries depend on it. Don't worry, give me 200k over 2 years and I'll study the problem for you... the results of my study will be "more research is needed.... so, I'll need more money, please".

Crisis · #**4538** Posted **Oct 11, 2021, 9:45 PM**

OK, what'd we miss??? DJ suspended for a comment here or another thread?

1ajs · #**4539** Posted **Oct 11, 2021, 10:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewIreland

Back when we were putting everyone in jail, the drug epidemic was not even close to being as bad as it is today. Thirty years of "reform" has resulted in billions of dollars for big pharmaceutical companies, "rehabilitation" centers and homeless shelters. We've built an entire billion dollar economy around "helping addicts recover"... Now, nobody wants to solve the problem. Too many 100k+ salaries depend on it. Don't worry, give me 200k over 2 years and I'll study the problem for you... the results of my study will be "more research is needed.... so, I'll need more money, please".

get the church out of it but have avail for those that want access dont need god to recover from a adicition used as a toold to manipulate more then anything els

pspeid · #**4540** Posted **Oct 11, 2021, 10:15 PM**

Wow. I knew there was a segment that saw the homeless as less-than-human, but man, this discussion is making me ill. I would not be al all surprised if there were some in this forum who would love to suggest mass execution as a "solution" to homelessness. Guess I'll check back on this thread in a couple of weeks after the self-appointed judges of who is worthy of human life find something else to rant about (and it gets back to discussing construction).