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  #501  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2021, 6:16 PM
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The article basically says that. $50m is apparently the contractual minimum but they are hoping to be able to do more.

I wonder how they propose to finance it, they must be expecting to fill the stadium a lot more to recoup expenses. Probably try to tap into overflows of large shows from the GTA like Markham was thinking of doing a decade ago when they were trying to build an arena.
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  #502  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2021, 6:47 PM
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$50M seems a little light for all the interior and exterior work they are proposing. Sounds like more of a $100M job.
April 2016:

The second phase of a $240,000 study on updating the aging city-owned FirstOntario Centre is now underway thanks to billionaire Ron Joyce and other private sector funders.

When complete, the study will include costed options for a possible two-phase transformation of the 30-year-old downtown arena.

The first phase could see the lower bowl turned into a state-of-the-art 8,000 or so seat facility.

The second phase could see the entire building upgraded to 21st-century NHL standards…

Kujavsky estimates that full transformation into an NHL-ready arena would cost about $300 million. He figures a standalone lower bowl conversion would cost about $100 million.



The 2016 estimate was twice as much as the current commitment and would have achieved less than half of the functional capacity.
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  #503  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2021, 7:23 PM
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I imagine things like 7-day restaurant/shop leases may also help with financing a larger spend.

I wonder how the concourse plans may differ from the 2016 estimates as well. More space for concessions and product sales, especially if contracted/leased out at good terms for HUPEG, may make for more building revenue.

If the expanded concourses are basically just getting a coat of paint and some minor cladding changes, that won't be too expensive. But I recall that the ice-making system needed a total replacement (i.e., the pipes and coolant that run through the rink concrete). That's not cheap, but the original system was way beyond its lifespan. Roof needed replacing too. The city didn't do any of that work, did they?
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  #504  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2021, 8:27 PM
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It'll be nice to see this wall of white go away.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.25967...7i16384!8i8192
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  #505  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2021, 10:55 PM
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This is very exciting, I love what they are proposing! And a whole York Blvd entertainment precinct??? YES PLEASE!!!
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  #506  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2021, 12:09 AM
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Whatever renovation is being done, there's no chance it will make the arena NHL-read - nor should it.
It would be a big waste of money.

Let's just get the exterior to stop looking like an eye-sore.
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  #507  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2021, 12:03 PM
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I hope they set up a nice scoreboard as part of this renovation. The current one is an embarrassment.
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  #508  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2021, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ScreamingViking View Post
I imagine things like 7-day restaurant/shop leases may also help with financing a larger spend.

I wonder how the concourse plans may differ from the 2016 estimates as well. More space for concessions and product sales, especially if contracted/leased out at good terms for HUPEG, may make for more building revenue.
I imagine that the restaurants will be owned and operated by Carmens or hospitality allies at The Other Bird and/or LIUNA and/or contracted out to franchises. Either way, that’s value they’ll capture, and they have decades to recoup.

The Bell Centre underwent a similar revamp a few years back and their budget (which admittedly included replacing 21K seats) ran to around $100 million.

The City’s own don’t-ask-to-see-our-math estimate is that status quo operation of First Ontario Centre, First Ontario Concert Hall and Hamilton Convention Centre would cost the City $155 million over the next 30 years (with $88 million of that in lifecycle renewals in the 2022-2029 period alone), so a true upgrade would presumably cost considerably more than the $52.5 million in renovations announced for the three facilities.

The City was originally prepared to give them a Jackson Square-grade lease: O&M of the FirstOntario Centre and the FirstOntario Concert Hall for a period of 99 years and of the Hamilton Convention Centre indefinitely.

Eleven months later, they had geared down to a blanket 49-year term, a barometer of one kind or another.

Curious to see how they bring Live Nation onboard, since the capacity crowds are unlikely to happen without their involvement.
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Last edited by thistleclub; Jun 26, 2021 at 3:13 AM.
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  #509  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2021, 5:02 PM
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This sounds great to be honest, if it all comes to fruition.

I could never understand the C$50M figure based on what they were outlining. Now this makes more sense that's a minimum figure. Please feel free, I encourage to spend much more to make the arena a functioning gem. I'd ballpark this around C$200M before done at least based on comparable renovations at other North American arena, if they're going to execute the noted plans.

Pretty cool there's areas never been seen or used by the public that could be part of the layout going forward. The whole York BLVD side stairs removals sounds pretty interesting. It's not hard now to envision with the new buildings across the street, the city centre distillery vibes and the KW pathway connection; this area could be really awesome in 5-10years when completed.
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  #510  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2021, 9:55 PM
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Downtown entertainment group would like to see Hamilton men’s shelter relocated

https://www.thespec.com/news/hamilto...-district.html

Now that plans are in the works to renovate FirstOntario Centre and build a glitzy entertainment district at York and Bay, some are asking what might happen to the area around the arena.

More specifically: What about the Salvation Army men’s shelter across the street?

It’s a delicate question.

“It’s very delicate,” says Hamilton Urban Precinct Entertainment Group partner and director of the arena renovation project, Jasper Kujavsky.

The question really comes down to whether that facility and the work it does for homeless and transient men is an ideal fit with the vision for the area as a fashionable spot that will draw people from around the city and beyond to hang out downtown. And can you lean towards ‘no’ without sounding uncompassionate?

The answer?

Kujavsky says HUPEG — which is planning to spend between $400 million and $500 million of private money to rejuvenate the downtown entertainment facilities and create other mixed-use development in the core — has spoken to the Salvation Army about the possibility of a relocation, which expresses pretty clearly what the consortium’s position is. To redefine this part of the city and give it a more upscale feel might require a change.

“They, I believe, recognize that there is a desire on many peoples’ parts to see if a relocation can be made possible,” he says. “In a way that benefits the Salvation Army (and) takes into account all of their needs, all of their requirements.”

And the other concern? The one about not sounding bad?

Kujavsky suggests that shouldn’t be an issue because any plan would require the Salvation Army’s approval. The Booth Centre fills an incredibly important role, he says, and nobody is forcing it to vacate. HUPEG wants to be respectful and collaborate with the charity to find a solution downtown that satisfies it rather than trying to squeeze it out.

“Every major city has to have important social services,” Kujavsky says. “But at the same time, cities also want to have entertainment zones where people can come and sit on a patio and go to a show. Things that all appropriately belong in a vibrant, balanced and inclusive urban core are not automatically all going to be immediate neighbours.”

What’s the Salvation Army’s position on all this?

“The only thing right now that we can confirm is our commitment to Hamilton’s most vulnerable,” its divisional manager of marketing and communications, Billy Canning, said in an email to The Spectator. “This pandemic has really impacted so many in the community which you are aware of, and we at The Salvation Army are continuing to focus on how we can provide essential programs and services to those in need.”

Ward 2 Coun. Jason Farr says he’s heard there have been conversations between HUPEG and the Salvation Army but says talk of a move is hardly new. There have been some challenges inside and outside that facility for some time, he says.

“Since I’ve been a councillor (he was elected in 2010) there’s been discussions about the relocation,” he says.

He says the city has no direct stake in this negotiation. The future of the men’s shelter was not part of the official entertainment precinct agreement with the city. But if this reimagining of the downtown could satisfy both sides and if the Salvation Army chooses to work with HUPEG to make this happen, he’d be happy to do what he could to help.

While Kujavsky says no alternate site has yet been found, discussions are underway with a number of property owners in the downtown to see if there’s a spot that would fit the needs of the men’s centre. A wide net is being cast to find that location.

“We’re committed to doing anything within our power to assist them and even help facilitate a relocation that meets all of their requirements and expectations,” he says.
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  #511  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2021, 10:34 PM
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Not unexpected. Even without the FOC plan, you'd think other developers in the area would be trying to coax the shelter to move.
EDIT: the question of "where to move" will be contentious too. It shouldn't be, but it will be.

Wasn't there mention some time ago of that property being redeveloped? Before all this FOC stuff happened?
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  #512  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2021, 1:26 PM
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Originally Posted by BCTed View Post
I hope they set up a nice scoreboard as part of this renovation. The current one is an embarrassment.
I did some work for the other proposal that City Council chose not to go with, and it did include a new modern scoreboard. However, it requires some significant reinforcing of the roof structure to support additional weight - we were looking at basically doubling the amount of roof trusses in the middle third of the building to spread the weight onto.

One other concept was to build a large mega-truss above the building running the long way, and transferring loads up to that. More steel but less expensive interior reno work.
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  #513  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2021, 1:57 PM
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Delicate situation for sure, but as the article mentioned, this isn't a new topic, just a refocused discussion with plans to increase the vibrancy of the area. There's been many challenges with the shelter in the past and those don't disappear regardless of where the Salvation Army moves.

While it won't change the planning of services, the city shouldn't have clustered all the shelters, rehabilitation or rooming houses in the lower city.

Guessing we could see the new shelter around Ferguson/Cannon/Cathcart area.
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  #514  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2021, 3:46 PM
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Historically, the arena has hosted around three months of events per year, with the rest being dark days. The Booth Centre serves 365 days a year.

The Good Shepherd's facility relocation to Ferguson & Cannon was undertaken to increase the real estate appeal of the complex across the street, eventually making way for "deeply affordable" subsidized housing on its former site and, in theory at least, catalyzing mixed-use residential in the process.

If HUPEG and the City were truly committed to expanding the circle of care and not simply aesthetic mop-up, the optics would be different. As with the Carmens-led Commonwealth Games bid, however, affordable housing is being treated as an afterthought, with just enough units to be able to talk proudly of "mixed-income housing" on a technicality.
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  #515  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2021, 8:29 PM
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As to moving the shelter, my wife worked there for a few years many years ago and she would come home with story's almost daily. She had a window office onto York Blvd. First thing in the morning after they all get kicked out for the day, they would come over to the Copp's side. They would pee on the windows. Occasionally crap in the flower boxes. (I would not sit or stand anywhere close to the windows or flower boxes.) They did drugs in this area and also fights would occasionally break out. They would be shewed away and just come back in a half hour.
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  #516  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2021, 12:31 PM
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  #517  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2021, 1:43 PM
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I'm so so so excited for this to start. Didn't realize the Vine St parking lot was part of the deal either. I just bought a place down the street and work nearly next door to this new entertainment district, so with this and LRT my neighborhood is going to be bumping!
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  #518  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2021, 3:49 PM
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It says that this development will get started fall of 2021. Any ideas what that will involve?
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  #519  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2021, 4:02 PM
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It's behind the paywall. Can anybody post a general rundown of what it says?
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  #520  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2021, 4:11 PM
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