Port of Vancouver Discussion

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Yeah I can't wait to see how this goes...

HarbourLynx redux... Or should I say "quatdux", since this will be no less than the fourth attempt at this market. So we can't even invoke "third time's the charm"...

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Eventually it will work, won't be this time but kudos for trying.

This is a "Chicken or the Egg" situation. If a 40-minute, high-frequency service between the island and Vancouver existed, you might see young families choosing between Nanaimo, Abbotsford, Langley, or Coquitlam. Of course, this would require more residences in Nanimo, and they would need to be targeted at young families and working professionals, not just retirees. For developers to build this type of housing, they would need to see an established connection to the mainland, and they would need to have faith that the ferry service won't be cancelled before they can get their units to market. So which comes first, the housing supply or the ferry service?

This service may need to operate at a deficit for a number of years before it becomes profitable. This would be untenable for most private ventures, so the government may need to step in with operating subsidies in the interim.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Victoria doesn't usually intervene unless it's a crown corp and/or there's votes involved... and somehow, I don't see this becoming an election issue.

[jollyburger]

The first new Centerm crane was raised today. From around 8AM-1PM

• Video Link

[officedweller]

Transpacific cargo congestion creates B.C. port opportunities
https://biv.com/article/2021/09/transpacific-cargo-congestion-creates-bc-port-opportunities

[jollyburger]

They are doing high crane work on the second crane today. I'm guessing it might get raised tomorrow?

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Transpacific cargo congestion creates B.C. port opportunities
https://biv.com/article/2021/09/transpacific-cargo-congestion-creates-bc-port-opportunities

The article identifies the opportunity if we can upgrade roads and railways outside of port lands so we all know where thats going (especially here in the Lower Mainland where we're in the business of REDUCING capacity nevermind increasing it).

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

The article identifies the opportunity if we can upgrade roads and railways outside of port lands so we all know where thats going (especially here in the Lower Mainland where we're in the business of REDUCING capacity nevermind increasing it).

The article didn't focus much on roads, just railways. The article also mentioned we have good connections to the Midwest and Eastern United States, but that Vancouver has poor rail connections to the Southeast. It's hard to see how that problem could be rectified considering geography...

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

The article didn't focus much on roads, just railways. The article also mentioned we have good connections to the Midwest and Eastern United States, but that Vancouver has poor rail connections to the Southeast. It's hard to see how that problem could be rectified considering geography...

With CN and CP buying up American railways left and right I expect that they're working hard on solving that problem...

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

With CN and CP buying up American railways left and right I expect that they're working hard on solving that problem...

what railways have they bought? i know they have attempted to buy some, but huge difference between attempting and succeeding.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

what railways have they bought? i know they have attempted to buy some, but huge difference between attempting and succeeding.

Kansas City Southern just went to CP after they both were after it.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/cn-drops...ire-u-s-railway-in-us-31b-deal-1.5586178

There's too many regulatory issues for them probably to grow that much in the US.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

what railways have they bought? i know they have attempted to buy some, but huge difference between attempting and succeeding.

CN bought:

Wisconsin Central Railroad
Duluth Missabe & Iron Range Railroad
Duluth Winnepeg & Pacific Railroad
Elgin Loliet & Eastern Railroad
Bessemer & Lake Erie Railroad
Grand Trunk Western Railroad
Central Vermont Railway
Illinois Central Railroad

I believe it was the last one that gave them direct access to the Gulf of Mexico

CP Bought:

Soo Line
Delaware and Hudson Railway
Dakota, Minnesota and Eastern Railroad
Kansas City Southern Railway

And both have failed to score on attempts to buy other US railways.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

CN bought:

Wisconsin Central Railroad
Duluth Missabe & Iron Range Railroad
Duluth Winnepeg & Pacific Railroad
Elgin Loliet & Eastern Railroad
Bessemer & Lake Erie Railroad
Grand Trunk Western Railroad
Central Vermont Railway
Illinois Central Railroad

I believe it was the last one that gave them direct access to the Gulf of Mexico

CP Bought:

Soo Line
Delaware and Hudson Railway
Dakota, Minnesota and Eastern Railroad
Kansas City Southern Railway

And both have failed to score on attempts to buy other US railways.

ahh okay yeah those are mostly small ones. i was thinking about the large railways. i dont see them being able to buy anything substantial though.

CP may have a chance at Kansas City, more than CN ever did; though even at that i don't see it happening from a regulatory standpoint.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

ahh okay yeah those are mostly small ones. i was thinking about the large railways. i dont see them being able to buy anything substantial though.

CP may have a chance at Kansas City, more than CN ever did; though even at that i don't see it happening from a regulatory standpoint.

The Surface Transportation Board already has praised the Canadian Pacific-Kansas City Southern tie-up as a true “end-to-end” merger and has ruled that the deal will be judged under older, less stringent rules.

https://financialpost.com/transportation...s-the-payoff-for-gamble-by-cp-boss-creel

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

https://financialpost.com/transportation...s-the-payoff-for-gamble-by-cp-boss-creel

yeah, i always thought the CN deal was dumb and never going to happen. i knew CP had more of a chance.

though i would still say it is far from a done deal. when it comes to american companies being taken over by foreign companies, that can get political quickly and i wouldn't put anything past the US Government at this point.

[aberdeen5698]

So I keep reading about how badly tangled the supply chain has gotten due to COVID, how there are ships up the wazoo lined up outside of LA harbour waiting for berths, how there's a huge shortage of truckers and dock workers, how containers aren't getting unloaded at their destinations causing a shortage of them for shipment back to Asia for reloading with newly manufactured goods, etc. etc.

But that's all US news, I'm not hearing anything about it in Canada and English Bay certainly doesn't look to my eye to be any more crowded with ships than it's ever been.

Is there anyone in the know who can comment how shipping in Canada and specifically in Vancouver is faring?

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

But that's all US news, I'm not hearing anything about it in Canada and English Bay certainly doesn't look to my eye to be any more crowded with ships than it's ever been.

Is there anyone in the know who can comment how shipping in Canada and specifically in Vancouver is faring?

Supply-chain fears in Canada, U.S. ramp up ahead of shopping season

Supply-chain congestion in Canada shows no signs of abating heading into the holiday seasons, although the level of dysfunction is less severe than in the United States, where the federal government has intervened to try to unclog key transportation bottlenecks.

On Wednesday, U.S. President Joe Biden said his administration struck a deal with the Port of Los Angeles to move to 24/7 operations, in the hope of addressing the massive backlog of container ships floating off the coast of California. Several large American companies, including UPS, Walmart and FedEx also said Wednesday that they would extend their hours to deal with delivery delays.

Canadian supply chains are also gummed up, although the key problem is not insufficient port capacity, said Robert Lewis-Manning, president of the Chamber of Shipping. Vancouver’s main ports already operate around the clock, and have not had the same labour challenges as the major ports on the West Coast of the U.S., he said.

“The biggest problem in the Canadian supply chain is that there’s not enough land space. There’s too many containers to move out of terminals, to get to warehouses, and to unpack and move them on trucks,” Mr. Lewis-Manning said.

...

At the Port of Vancouver, the “dwell time” for freight temporarily left at terminals has been relatively normal, though concerns linger about other parts of the supply chain such as delays in transferring goods to and from warehouses.

At the Deltaport and Vanterm terminals, imported goods are spending three days or fewer on dock, which is considered a fast turnaround. At the Centerm terminal, the dwell time is from three to five days.

Overall, cargo through Canada’s largest port has continued to move steadily, despite disruptions in other parts of the supply chain, the Port of Vancouver said.

[jollyburger]

They said LA is handling a lot more smaller ships so there's more ships waiting but the amount of cargo waiting off shore isn't as huge of a number.

[WarrenC12]

Is the volume actually down from say, 2019 levels in LA?

It's weird that we are experiencing chip shortages and other things due to manufacturing in Asia, yet also the Ports can't handle the volume? All else equal, they should be shipping less volume.

[officedweller]

Also remember that there are a limited number of anchorages in English Bay. The overflow anchor near the Gulf Islands.