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View Poll Results: Who are you voting for?
LPC 50 40.32%
CPC 22 17.74%
NDP 35 28.23%
PPC 8 6.45%
BQ 4 3.23%
GP 4 3.23%
Other 1 0.81%
Voters: 124. You may not vote on this poll

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  #641  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 5:32 PM
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Again a good point. "No problem if Elizabeth May leaves, someone'll inevitably show up as a replacement." You might lose two-thirds of your votes tho...
Only two thirds? Not bad. I thought it was like 90%.
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  #642  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 5:37 PM
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Again a good point. "No problem if Elizabeth May leaves, someone'll inevitably show up as a replacement." You might lose two-thirds of your votes tho...
The smaller the party, the more vulnerable it is to this sort of thing. I don't think the big 4 parties with substantial caucuses and links to provincial organizations have too much to worry about in that regard.
     
     
  #643  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 5:41 PM
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Only two thirds? Not bad. I thought it was like 90%.
"Not bad"?!? You're a real glass-half-full type!
     
     
  #644  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 5:59 PM
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Two elections ago. (I thought it was three for a second, I woke up with the vague feeling we'd had an election, but then I checked the composition of Parliament and decided it must have been a dream.)
     
     
  #645  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 6:21 PM
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Re: western alienation

A major factor that killed western alienation politically was urban Alberta/Saskatchewan/Manitoba. In the 1997 election, the Liberals or NDP won 8 seats in Alberta/Saskatchewan. Reform won only 3 of 14 in Manitoba. Hell, the PCs still won Brandon. So the prairies returned 19 non-Reformers.

If Reform swept the 3 prairie provinces (including the PC seat) the results would have been
Liberals: 146 seats
Reform: 79 seats
Bloc: 50
NDP: 12
PCs: 19

Still a Liberal minority, but no longer the 3 successive Liberal majorities.

Similar answer in 2000. 17 non-Alliance seats sent by the prairie provinces. Still wouldn't have been a Liberal Majority, but at least closer.

Calgary, Edmonton, Saskatoon, Regina, and Winnipeg largely rejected Reform/western alienation politics.

The movement was and still is largely a rural phenomenon.
I asked one of my Saskatchewan born colleagues morning after election night about his opinion of this election. He wasn’t surprised that Saskatchewan went completely Blue again and the province has been solid Tory ever since the previous election. “The province (Saskatchewan) sequesters more carbon through agriculture and power plant innovation than any other province in Canada and Saskatchewan would still be dinged with the highest percentage payment for Federal Carbon tax, where as Ontario with gas combustion car manufacture plants and Quebec with opening new concrete production plants get a free hall pass” he said.


Apparently Ralph Goodale was the last Federal Liberal from Saskatchewan before losing his seat two years ago and he was a very well regarded cabinet minister. This election in a lot of the ridings in that province the Liberal candidate got 4th or 5th the amount of votes as other parties. The Liberals will have a hard time getting any riding wins in Saskatchewan in the future and the party’s decline has been occurring for many years. Their Provincial Premier Scott Moe and his Saskatchewan party have been in power for a long time but the party it self is the remnants of the defunct 1990’s gutted provincial Liberal party reconstituted into it’s current party name.

Sad thing is if Trudeau had gotten even a win in a portion of the Saskatchewan ridings this last time, the Liberals would have got their majority and the next four years of Canadian politics would be looking very different. I have a bad feeling the Federal Liberals getting a majority in parliament has ended for a good decade or so to come after the Justin Trudeau reign. It’s going to be possibly generations before the Federal Liberals get decent representation from Alberta and particular Saskatchewan in the near future.
     
     
  #646  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 6:47 PM
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I agree. Freeland is vulnerable. She is essentially Canada's Hilliary Clinton.
No way does she have that level of baggage.
     
     
  #647  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 6:48 PM
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No way does she have that level of baggage.
But she's a woman! And in politics! Surely they're the exact same.
     
     
  #648  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 6:51 PM
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But she's a woman! And in politics! Surely they're the exact same.
Yeah remember when she was Chretien's wife and then he got impeached for a 🞵🞵🞵 scandal or something?!
     
     
  #649  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 6:52 PM
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There are more similarities: they're both uncharismatic policy wonks who are extremely competent but have a hard time connecting with (a.k.a. being ranked as the politician they'd most enjoy having a beer with by) the average voter (a 5-minute conversation with whom, is the best argument against democracy) and don't look cool in selfies.

In theory, Clinton had everything it took to get elected POTUS.
In theory, Freeland has everything it takes to become PM, even with a majority.
     
     
  #650  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 7:06 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
There are more similarities: they're both uncharismatic policy wonks who are extremely competent but have a hard time connecting with (a.k.a. being ranked as the politician they'd most enjoy having a beer with by) the average voter (a 5-minute conversation with whom, is the best argument against democracy) and don't look cool in selfies.

In theory, Clinton had everything it took to get elected POTUS.
In theory, Freeland has everything it takes to become PM, even with a majority.
Baggage. Clinton had 30 years of it going back to Arkansas. There is literally no comparison.
     
     
  #651  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 7:07 PM
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Freeland has a tendency to get very shrill when arguing s point. It won't matter for the campaign itself, but could end up looking poorly in debates.
     
     
  #652  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 7:15 PM
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Baggage. Clinton had 30 years of it going back to Arkansas. There is literally no comparison.
Are there any such knocks on Freeland? She has kept her nose very clean over the years as far as I am aware.
     
     
  #653  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 7:17 PM
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There's a Sopranos episode from like 2001 where the characters talk about how much they hate Hillary.
     
     
  #654  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 7:36 PM
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Are there any such knocks on Freeland? She has kept her nose very clean over the years as far as I am aware.
Only thing I can think of is when she used to work in the US prior to Canadian politics, but I can't remember the specifics of her work or what the background was. Don't think it was anything too spicy.
     
     
  #655  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 7:40 PM
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Baggage. Clinton had 30 years of it going back to Arkansas. There is literally no comparison.
Biden had 50+ years of baggage. JT had multigenerational baggage. It's not a problem to be hated by some, if you can motivate the rest to get out and vote for you.

You're being blind on purpose, if you fail to see the obvious parallels between HRC and Freeland.
     
     
  #656  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 7:43 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Biden had 50+ years of baggage. JT had multigenerational baggage. It's not a problem to be hated by some, if you can motivate the rest to get out and vote for you.

You're being blind on purpose, if you fail to see the obvious parallels between HRC and Freeland.
This isn't about Biden or anyone else. Clinton vs. Freeland.

They are white ladies who are good managers. You'd probably say the same thing about any prominent white female.
     
     
  #657  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 7:44 PM
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They are white ladies who are good managers. You'd probably say the same thing about any prominent white female.
Good to know that the opposition's only talking points against Freeland at this stage are kept to "but she's a woman". That'll propel the CPC high in the polls.
     
     
  #658  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 7:50 PM
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This isn't about Biden or anyone else. Clinton vs. Freeland.

They are white ladies who are good managers. You'd probably say the same thing about any prominent white female.
Pauline Marois? Sarah Palin? Kathleen Wynne? Christy Clark? Valérie Plante?

No, don't think so. There's an extra element (uncharismatic policy wonk) that Hillary and Chrystia Freeland share, and it's not an asset in politics nowadays.
     
     
  #659  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 7:52 PM
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I think Freeland is more intelligent and capable than Hillary. She's less experienced, wealthy, and not as good a public speaker.

She's closer to an Anglo Dion than anything else.
     
     
  #660  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2021, 7:53 PM
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No, don't think so. There's an extra element (uncharismatic policy wonk) that Hillary and Chrystia Freeland share, and it's not an asset in politics nowadays.
If you think being an "uncharismatic policy wonk" is why Clinton lost, that's not it at all.
     
     
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