Federal Government & Politics | Election 2021 FORUM POLL

[rofina]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

first 20 years of my life in Kelowna, even then, I didn't see anti eastern sentiment, I saw anti Vancouver and anti Alberta sentiment

Definitely remember the red plate hate in Kelowna.

Anti-eastern - that's a stretch, anti Quebec? That's less of a stretch. People definitely have their opinions on Quebec.

[whatnext]

Looks like the Conservatives are learning exactly the wrong lesson from this election. If the Neanderthals want to drag the party back rightward their only chance of urban/suburban wins will be if the Liberals implode from some massive scandal:

Erin O’Toole accused of ‘betraying’ Conservatives as he faces first leadership challenge
LAURA STONE AND IAN BAILEY
TORNTO AND OTTAWA
PUBLISHED SEPTEMBER 22, 2021

In the first public challenge to Erin O’Toole from within his own ranks, a member of the Conservative Party’s national council says the Tory Leader should face an accelerated leadership review for “betraying” members during the election campaign.

Bert Chen, an elected national council member from Ontario, says many party members are upset with Mr. O’Toole’s attempt to make the party appear more centrist, which they believe resulted in the Tories’ loss of seats in Monday’s vote, as well as diminished support in urban areas.

“The feedback from the members ... is that Erin has betrayed their trust, and that Erin’s leadership based off of these results is a failure, and he needs to go,” Mr. Chen said in an interview....

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics...traying-conservatives-as-he-faces-first/

[drew]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I probably won't answer your question directly, but having travelled extensively in Western Canada for work and pleasure, and discussed this topic with many Westerners around boardroom tables, restaurant place settings, barstools and online, I'd say that Atlantic Canada doesn't factor into the equation much at all in their minds.

Overall, you guys get off scot free even though equalization per capita is way higher in Atlantic Canada than in Quebec. (Manitoba's per capita equalization is also higher than Quebec's, actually.)

Ontario does get crapped on of course because it has the most population, the biggest city and the capital located within it.

But nothing comes close to the venom directed at Quebec.

This hate is supposedly explained (justified) by a few things:

That while equalization per capita to Quebec is the lowest of the have-nots (often by a huge margin), the total number of dollars is by far the biggest. Due to Quebec's large population.

While Atlantic Canada is a huge recipient per capita, at least they never tried to separate and break up the country.

I'd add one that no one ever refers to: Alberta in particular has a fairly decent share of its population made of people from Atlantic Canada (especially Newfoundland) and their descendants.

Which of course leads us to the elephant in the room that probably explains a lot of the acrimony which is that Quebec is "French" (sic) whereas Atlantic Canada is not. Or at least is not perceived as such.

In my line of business, Quebec is like a black hole. Within the local Engineering and Architectural consulting industry, no one I know (who isn't a large National organization) is licensed or practices within Quebec. I have been all over Canada for projects, but never inside Quebec.

It isn't a strictly language based problem either (especially here in Winnipeg) - but more of a difference in local practices, laws, procedures etc.

With respect to the ASME consulting industry, Quebec functions like a separate country.

[Bcasey25raptor]

BC centre right vote is less than Both Ontario and Alberta

Alberta


Ontario


BC

[jigglysquishy]

I don't know why you struggle to understand a basic concept like western alienation not being just a right wing movement.

[Bcasey25raptor]

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy

I don't know why you struggle to understand a basic concept like western alienation not being just a right wing movement.

Because it isn't NDP sowing the seeds of regional divisions, it's CPC and their post media ilk doing it.

NDP hates the libs because they view the libs as fake, that doesn't mean it's western alienation. I felt alienated from Canada when Harper governed for Alberta and by Alberta regardless of what BC and the east wanted out of this country.

I voted NDP, I still like Trudeau, polls show in BC that majority wanted Trudeau to stay, this wasn't true in Alberta and Saskatchewan.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by lio45

That's a factual observation though. "Very Culturally Polish" and "Extremely culturally diverse" are mutually exclusive, and if I've always dreamed of visiting Poland for example, then it's likely not in order to go interact with an Indian immigrant who barely speaks any Polish serving me Tandoori Chicken in the retail section of a nondescript international-style glass office tower in the Warsaw CBD.

I'd say it's universal to major metros in the Western world--the chunk of the planet that is a magnet for immigrants. Tokyo would be a nice counter-example: megacity, but still culturally very Japanese.

Sure, someone who barely speaks any Polish likely hasn't been there that long and may not even be a citizen yet. But at the same time, I'd caution against allowing the desires or perceptions of a non-Polish outsider who's never been to the country define what does and doesn't constitute the true Poland more than actual Polish people, regardless of their national or ethnic origin. There are countless examples of the perceptions of outsiders not matching reality. I'm sure we've all heard of "Paris Syndrome" for example?

In my experience, when people who talk about a large diverse city not really being "insert national identity", they're not basing their complaint on the small percentage of immigrants who've just arrived. I often see such comments online just based on the physical appearance of people on the street in a particular city. It's basically impossible to tell if a person is foreign born and if so how long they've been in their current city just based on their physical appearance.

[Bcasey25raptor]

"WHAT ELECTION OUTCOME DO CANADIANS WANT?

Asked which of four (most likely based on today’s numbers) outcomes they would prefer, 60% would prefer a Liberal victory (28% majority, 32% minority) while 40% would prefer a Conservative win (15% minority, 25% majority). This is mostly unchanged from our last survey and has been consistent throughout the election.

Among NDP supporters, 74% would prefer a Liberal government over a Conservative one (58% want a Liberal minority) while BQ supporters are split. 51% want a Liberal government (45% want a Liberal minority) while 49% want a Conservative government (with 43% wanting a Conservative minority).

Among People’s Party supporters, 78% want a Conservative government (including 41% who want a Conservative majority) while 22% would prefer a Liberal government."

https://abacusdata.ca/election-2021-final-poll-abacus-data/

That NDP vote is concentrated in BC and vast majority prefer a lib win to a conservative one, thats what we got and i'm beyond relieved that was the result we got.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by drew

In my line of business, Quebec is like a black hole. Within the local Engineering and Architectural consulting industry, no one I know (who isn't a large National organization) is licensed or practices within Quebec. I have been all over Canada for projects, but never inside Quebec.

It isn't a strictly language based problem either (especially here in Winnipeg) - but more of a difference in local practices, laws, procedures etc.

With respect to the ASME consulting industry, Quebec functions like a separate country.

Yes, I know that's the case for a number of sectors of the economy. If you look at office locations for national firms, a number of them have offices from BC to Ontario, then skip over Quebec, and then have offices in the Maritimes again.

I worked for a few large Canadian corporations in my younger days, and while they didn't skip over the Quebec market at all, the way they managed their HR was as if Quebec was like a different country. I.e. a regional manager might get transferred from Ottawa to Winnipeg or Kitchener, but never from Ottawa to Gatineau.

Basically the Quebec side of the company would function like its own self-contained unit, and people would move around within that.

It only happened very rarely that people would cross back and forth over the imaginary line for their careers, and almost always they were francophones from outside Quebec or Anglo-Quebecers. (Even so, even those people still tended to remain within their "sphere".)

Not sure if any of this is a source of "hate" for most people, though.

[Peggerino]

It's pretty crazy around 22% of PPC voters prefer a Liberal government over Conservative

[rofina]

Originally Posted by Peggerino

It's pretty crazy around 22% of PPC voters prefer a Liberal government over Conservative

This gives credence to the fact the PPC is a protest vote.

That is to say, not all people who voted PPC are fringe nut cases.

Non zero percentage appear to be doing the old "hand grenade vote" in protest of uncompelling visions of the future, presented by our political establishment.

[drew]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes, I know that's the case for a number of sectors of the economy. If you look at office locations for national firms, a number of them have offices from BC to Ontario, then skip over Quebec, and then have offices in the Maritimes again.

I worked for a few large Canadian corporations in my younger days, and while they didn't skip over the Quebec market at all, the way they managed their HR was as if Quebec was like a different country. I.e. a regional manager might get transferred from Ottawa to Winnipeg or Kitchener, but never from Ottawa to Gatineau.

Basically the Quebec side of the company would function like its own self-contained unit, and people would move around within that.

It only happened very rarely that people would cross back and forth over the imaginary line for their careers, and almost always they were francophones from outside Quebec or Anglo-Quebecers. (Even so, even those people still tended to remain within their "sphere".)

Not sure if any of this is a source of "hate" for most people, though.

^ no. But I don't see how this system would help anything either. Especially with respect to the relative ignorance that exists between Quebec and the ROC (obviously across multiple industries, not just consulting).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by drew

^ no. But I don't see how this system would help anything either. Especially with respect to the relative ignorance that exists between Quebec and the ROC (obviously across multiple industries, not just consulting).

Sure, but what is the solution?

Things have been done this way for ages. And they seem to (for the most part) work, no?

[Bcasey25raptor]

11 of 25 NDP seats they won on monday are in Greater Vancouver and Vancouver island, all of these 11 ridings are within 150km of my front door. NDP are the Bloc BC

[Acajack]

Count one more seat for the Liberals and one less for the Bloc. The Liberal candidate has overtaken the Bloquiste in Brome-Missisquoi for good, and is the winner.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Count one more seat for the Liberals and one less for the Bloc. The Liberal candidate has overtaken the Bloquiste in Brome-Missisquoi for good, and is the winner.

Subject to a recount?

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

11 of 25 NDP seats they won on monday are in Greater Vancouver and Vancouver island, all of these 11 ridings are within 150km of my front door. NDP are the Bloc BC

79/159 Liberal seats are in Ontario. Does that make the Liberals the Bloc Ontarian?

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Looks like the Conservatives are learning exactly the wrong lesson from this election. If the Neanderthals want to drag the party back rightward their only chance of urban/suburban wins will be if the Liberals implode from some massive scandal:

[I]Erin O’Toole accused of ‘betraying’ Conservatives as he faces first leadership challenge
LAURA STONE AND IAN BAILEY
TORNTO AND OTTAWA
PUBLISHED SEPTEMBER 22, 2021

...

Bert Chen, an elected national council member from Ontario, says many party members are upset with Mr. O’Toole’s attempt to make the party appear more centrist, which they believe resulted in the Tories’ loss of seats in Monday’s vote, as well as diminished support in urban areas.

So O'toole wasn't right-wing enough for urban voters, which is why they supported the left-wing Liberals & NDP instead? Solid logic from the Conservatives there.

[svlt]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Subject to a recount?

Unlikely to be pursued IMO. The only riding that is likely going to auto-recount is Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley due to being just 24 seats apart. Recounts don't usually change vote counts by much and is very much a last gasp attempt, 186 votes is a lot to be mistakenly counted nowadays.

I'd even say Libs have as much of a chance flipping the near 600 vote difference in Coast of Bays-Central-Notre Dame through mail-in ballots than the 24 seat difference in Charleswood would be reversed by a recount.

[Bcasey25raptor]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

79/159 Liberal seats are in Ontario. Does that make the Liberals the Bloc Ontarian?

You're looking too deeply into my joke. But no, Ontario has 1 in 3 Canadians in it and just shy of half teh Liberal caucus is from there.

BC has 14% of the Canadian population and yet more than 50% of NDP seats there.

My point is the NDP is in a crisis, they do well in BC but almost nowhere else.