DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[TakeFive]

What's in a name?

It turns out that we both missed it; it's been there all along. It's the largest hotel in downtown; it's Marriott branded and it's kickin' 🞵🞵🞵 and taking names.

Originally Posted by laniroj

Exactly, it's unfathomable that Marriott missed out on the past decade of boom in Denver by not having a flagship in Downtown Denver.

What was the problem?
Yes, that's a good place to start.

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/...r-downtown-80m-renovation-tony-dunn.html

In 2018 and 2019, a number of corporate groups that had held events at Sheraton Denver Downtown Hotel told General Manager Tony Dunn that they wouldn’t be coming back until it underwent renovations. Denver’s largest hotel, he realized, was “tired and dated.”

Cue the RE owner/investors. Without capital nothing happens.

Real Estate Partners of Atlanta and Eagle Four Partners of Southern California that bought the now-1,238-room property in mid-2018, renovations began in August 2019 and finished up earlier this summer.

Results usually speak for themselves.

And Dunn already has noticed a striking difference. The Sheraton, at Court Place on the 16th Street Mall, is regularly selling out on weekends now, and its occupancy rates are running at 2019 levels north of 80% even as downtown hotels averaged just 65% in August, according to the Colorado Hotel & Lodging Association.

And event planners that once shunned the hotel for out-of-state shows now are offering “tons of interest” in the longer-term windows extending into next year, he said.

So it's not unlike a new hotel then?

“It’s essentially a fresh, brand-new hotel,” Dunn said in an interview. “It hasn’t shone for a while, so I think it’s really bringing this hotel back to where it needs to be.” [It was] meant as a test case for Marriott International’s plans to revitalize the Sheraton brand it purchased several years ago.

And it’s gotten its new “super-high-end” mall-facing cocktail lounge, Bezel, ready to open on Nov. 1... “It’s going to be that eclectic bar that doesn’t exist in Denver,” Dunn said.

Anything left to do?

The last major piece of work Dunn needs is to replace Hacienda Colorado, the restaurant that was in the 11,000-square-foot first-floor dining space on the east side of the hotel that shut down at the start of the pandemic and will not reopen. He said, however, that he is very close to signing a contract with a well-known national concept that could renovate the space and reopen it sometime next year.

Images courtesy Marriott International/Sheraton Denver

[Arapahoe]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

FWIW nobody was more enthusiastic about the pop-up park on 21st Street back in 2017 than I was.

Dang that was five years ago! Geez louise, hoping this 5280 Trail starts getting some momentum.

[TakeFive]

As I like to say: "Context is everything"

Originally Posted by Ich

https://www.rmpbs.org/blogs/news/5280-tr...mvUDnOOb6tScJC06LnkQ_b9dHcGufaqF2b0_7q_k

Originally Posted by Arapahoe

Dang that was five years ago! Geez louise, hoping this 5280 Trail starts getting some momentum.

I assumed you had read Ich's linked article.

When the design process for the trail began in 2019, it drew comparisons to New York City’s High Line. In an interview with Rocky Mountain PBS last month, officials with the DDP said the project that most inspired them was the Cultural Trail in Indianapolis.

The genesis goes back to 2015 with a 20-year plan.

In 2015, the Partnership’s Management Group Board of Directors proposed the creation of a comprehensive parks plan for our center city, which led to the creation of The Outdoor Downtown Plan in partnership with the City. Now, for the first time, we have a master plan that addresses the unique opportunities and challenges related to managing and activating public spaces in the urban core...

At about the same time we would "play" with different ideas and routes for a downtown streetcar. I liked going along Broadway to 21st street towards Coors Field for the simple reason that 21st street didn't have lots of traffic; no buses went down 21st street.

According to Jon Murray of the Denver Post and David Sachs with Streetsblog Denver back in July of 2016 a downtown loop became a hot topic after a trip sponsored by the Downtown Denver Partnership returned from visiting the Cultural Trail in Indianapolis. Their trail resulted from 12 years of planning and six years of construction in 2013 and received recognition from Streetsblog USA the same year.

The early concept for the Trail, originally called the the "5280 Loop" came out in October of 2017 according to David Sachs/Streetsblog Denver.

The initial vision for the 5280 Trail came out in August of 2019 as described by Andy Bosselman/Streetsblog Denver.

Yesterday city officials presented a vision for The 5280 Trail, a “linear park” that could one day form a five-mile loop around downtown Denver. It would transform streets into tree-lined places for plazas, playgrounds and public art — while creating a low-stress place for people to stroll and ride bikes.

So it wasn't until August of 2019 that a well thought-out vision along with "design guidelines" was released to the public. That is ONLY two year ago. Back to the PBS piece.

Projects of this size come with a big price tag and a long timeline. Though the tree boxes on 21st are emblazoned with Coming Soon!, Door told Rocky Mountain PBS the goal is to have the trail totally completed in 10 years, noting that certain sections, including the one on 21st Street, will be entirely built out before then.

[Sam Hill]

Did y’all happen to notice this article from a couple weeks ago?

Housing demand is greater than ever but Colorado is building fewer homes than expected. Here’s why.

…there just aren’t enough construction workers to build houses for everyone who wants or needs one. That has pushed home prices to record highs and inventory, some say, to nothing.

Builders, however, never stopped building. While material costs have risen and the supply chain has slowed, the industry points to an increasingly tight labor market that has been getting even tighter in recent years. The demand for more housing has not been stronger, and that’s evidenced in the rising number of building permits in Colorado. Six of the top 20 biggest months since 1988 have occurred since October.

It makes me wonder how many projects for which we’ve been eagerly awaiting a groundbreaking are ready to go financially, but simply can’t find the available builders to make it happen any time soon.

The article from there goes into detail about the struggle to find young people willing to join the trades at a rate fast enough to replace the retirees.

BTW, The Colorado Sun - it was started by a bunch of journalists who had jumped ship from the Denver Post after the hedge fund that now owns it had gutted it to the point where its ability to produce quality journalism was basically crippled. I’ve been reading it for a while now. It’s the real deal. Quality local journalism. I pitch in 10 bucks a month and it’s well worth it AFAIC.

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by Arapahoe

Dang that was five years ago! Geez louise, hoping this 5280 Trail starts getting some momentum.

The 5280 Trail has a lot of momentum. Earlier this year, the DDP created a community-led task force for each of the six neighborhoods that the 5280 goes through, empowering those task forces to spearhead the development of the stretch of the trail in their neighborhood, and giving grant money to each to be used for public art or community events to begin marking the trail. The city/DDP is also close to finalizing the 5280 identification and wayfinding signage that will be spaced frequently along the entire 5.280-mile loop. Additionally, there are a few smaller public works/infrastructure projects along the trail that allows the trail's urban design standards and guidelines (pavers, etc.) to be incorporated into the work. Finally, the GO bond issue Denver voters will vote on in November includes about $7 million dollars to build out a few segments of the 5280's full design.

[Arapahoe]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

The 5280 Trail has a lot of momentum. Earlier this year, the DDP created a community-led task force for each of the six neighborhoods that the 5280 goes through, empowering those task forces to spearhead the development of the stretch of the trail in their neighborhood, and giving grant money to each to be used for public art or community events to begin marking the trail. The city/DDP is also close to finalizing the 5280 identification and wayfinding signage that will be spaced frequently along the entire 5.280-mile loop. Additionally, there are a few smaller public works/infrastructure projects along the trail that allows the trail's urban design standards and guidelines (pavers, etc.) to be incorporated into the work. Finally, the GO bond issue Denver voters will vote on in November includes about $7 million dollars to build out a few segments of the 5280's full design.

woo hoo, thanks for the info! I am participating in the 21st St surveys, can't wait to see this trail start to emerge from all the design work.

[Arapahoe]

Denver is getting serious about the vagarant situation/cleaniness in Arapahoe Square.

These notices were posted throughout the area yesterday. "Regular" clean-ups to be conducted in a triangle bounded by Broadway, Park Ave, and Welton.

[Denveropolis]

Originally Posted by Arapahoe

Denver is getting serious about the vagarant situation/cleaniness in Arapahoe Square.

These notices were posted throughout the area yesterday. "Regular" clean-ups to be conducted in a triangle bounded by Broadway, Park Ave, and Welton.

This is a great start!

[TakeFive]

Just curious

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

The 5280 Trail has a lot of momentum. Earlier this year, the DDP created a community-led task force for each of the six neighborhoods that the 5280 goes through, empowering those task forces to spearhead the development of the stretch of the trail in their neighborhood...

Appreciate the great update; they're actually more organized than I had guessed.

Do you know, have they decided yet if the landowners will be asked to be responsible for maintenance and care for trees etc along the lines of what they did on 14th Street?

Not only frustrating but sad

Originally Posted by Denveropolis

This is a great start!

As Sam Hill points out there are good jobs out there for the taking. You don't have to be a brain surgeon to work in construction. In fact, after some experience construction jobs can pay from $50,000 to over $100,000 in some cases - like experienced electricians.

When I first moved to Denver my first job was slinging a hammer - actually a rigging axe. Friend from CU was overseeing the framing of a townhome project in Capitol Hill so for six months or so I had a great time being a "framer." My 'boss' and I drove together and usually had a couple of quick beers before we headed home.

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

Did y’all happen to notice this article from a couple weeks ago?

Housing demand is greater than ever but Colorado is building fewer homes than expected. Here’s why.

Thanks for the link; that was an interesting read.

It seems that last year's Pandemic-induced lust for single family homes has cooled off (which was predictable). In many cases first-time buyers are burnt out from trying and now not wanting to pay the ever escalating prices.

That said, I'm sure there's still plenty of demand but it's becoming more of a normal, balanced market.

[TakeFive]

What do you think; nice or not?





Images courtesy City of Denver via CBS4

[Brainpathology]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

What do you think; nice or not?





Images courtesy City of Denver via CBS4

I'm not sure how good that will look behind all the metal barriers Denver has decided somehow look better than tents. Weird that a blue state would decide that "martial law" is a more attractive aesthetic than actually having people have to look at a problem they don't want to bother solving - or maybe it's 100% on brand depending on who you talk to I guess.

(I was there last week.. right between people being there and then being removed for approximately 5 trillion miles of metal barriers. Moving all the homeless and making Denver look like an abandoned Guantanamo was not an improvement at all)

[Arapahoe]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

What do you think; nice or not?





Images courtesy City of Denver via CBS4

Nice. Those fountains tend to bring in families & dog walkers if they will be anywhere near as successful as the one in City Park. Really applaud the city for attempting to clean up Civic Center and try to make it a welcoming place for everyone to visit. Although drug addiction, mental illness, and homelessness are terrible problems, giving up and turning our public spaces over to drug use, trash, human defecation and rats is the epitome of laziness, apathy and decay.

[Brainpathology]

Originally Posted by Arapahoe

Nice. Those fountains tend to bring in families & dog walkers if they will be anywhere near as successful as the one in City Park. Really applaud the city for attempting to clean up Civic Center and try to make it a welcoming place for everyone to visit. Although drug addiction, mental illness, and homelessness are terrible problems, giving up and turning our public spaces over to drug use, trash, human defecation and rats is the epitome of laziness, apathy and decay.

Giving up and moving them out of sight is better? What's going to happen to them? We bulldozed them away for Coors Field in the 90s and they turned up there now. What exactly is Denver planning to do with them? House them? Nope. Exterminate them? Nope (hopefully.. not sure on that though). You're just plugging dike holes constantly and I'm curious where they will all end up to be moved next. To be replaced by a constantly vigilant constable in his patrol car standing guard in the park?

Massively expanding state hospital beds and space would be my ideal starting solution because at least when we had those we could believably tell ourselves we were putting a roof over people's heads. Better yet would be Colorado as a whole guaranteeing a job to anyone who wants one - maybe they can be employed putting up the fences the city now loves so much. Or possible train them in construction. I seem to remember some sort of word about those trades being in demand now. And I don't buy the "people won't approve paying for it" line. If Denver voters won't approve that (who have never met a tax increase they don't love if a good plan is attached to it) then it only serves to show that the city doesn't DESERVE the aesthetic of parks only for those lucky enough to have a home.

Writing all of them off as drug addicts is a cute (and monstrously silly hypocritical attack for the world's pot and craft alcohol capital) way to pretend none of them deserve any of this too. And as I read this board this attack seems to be THE sine qua non of EVERY discussion related to it. I can't imagine what I'd turn to if my life turned upside down and I was on the streets and moments of escape would most likely quickly become a part of my life there.

And as always.. not directed at the last post per se, I've seen your posts Arapahoe and you're obviously a good, compassionate, thoughtful person, I'm just triggered going back to my hometown and seeing it act callously in a way I thought we all learned from when the Rockies came to town. An entire population of people who can't make the right decision despite all their best efforts and see all their plans destroyed so that they are stuck in LODO forever being irrelevant, forgotten, desolate and uncared for by literally everyone in the world who matters..... and somehow that's better than the homeless people who they replaced?

I realize this is a rant too.. I'm eagerly awaiting Bunt or Ken talking me down from this. I can imagine Denver is actually trying something more than neighborhood meetings but I didn't see it and all I hear here is "yeah it's a damn shame.. but I see an occasional needle soooooo F*ck em"

[coolmandan03]

Originally Posted by Brainpathology

Massively expanding state hospital beds and space would be my ideal starting solution because at least when we had those we could believably tell ourselves we were putting a roof over people's heads.

This is a great idea! I suggest we start with your paycheck to solve the problem (since the current $593M a year isn't nearly enough on homeless to please you). Seriously though, my paycheck is tight enough - but feel free to fund your solutions!

[mojiferous]

Originally Posted by coolmandan03

This is a great idea! I suggest we start with your paycheck to solve the problem (since the current $593M a year isn't nearly enough on homeless to please you). Seriously though, my paycheck is tight enough - but feel free to fund your solutions!

There is a solution to this right in front of us. Tax high incomes at high rates. Increase taxes for corporations, "investors", and wealth. Let's make the rich poor again and bleed our vulture classes dry.

But that'll never happen because they've spent 50 years convincing people that more services or social programs have to come from YOUR paycheck and everyone has just bought into it and played along. You assumed it would cost you money and make life harder. And now we fight amongst outselves because they've bamboozled us all.

We do need more money for services for the homeless because the approach in this country is to try to treat the symptoms and not the underlying causes. But let's take that money from the people who have more of it, that we vastly outnumber, and that don't need all of that wealth.

We have gently-taxed billionaires running their own space race while our city centers are full of people who have no homes. That fact should have people in the streets with pitchforks - but we all have to understand who the pitchforks are for or nothing will change.

[Brainpathology]

Originally Posted by coolmandan03

This is a great idea! I suggest we start with your paycheck to solve the problem (since the current $593M a year isn't nearly enough on homeless to please you). Seriously though, my paycheck is tight enough - but feel free to fund your solutions!

Actually I pay far less taxes than I could given the problems we have, and I'd much rather them go to social problems then nearly 10 trillion dollars on an entire country of cowards who fold like a wet cardboard box the second their babysitters leave the country. You COULD definitely start with my paycheck and those of people as fortunate as I am, and I suggest you do just that.

And I'm sorry, was your point not good enough to use the actual 481million number that the article quotes or is the extra 112 million dollars essential for pointing out the earth shaking hypocrisy you thought I would share with the fortunate earners of Colorado?

[Arapahoe]

Originally Posted by Brainpathology

Giving up and moving them out of sight is better?

Yes. We need to take a hard stance. If you are homeless in the city, you are required to sleep in shelters and abide by the rules of the shelter. The city & state are required to provide adequate shelter space, sanitation and the necessary services, like drug & alcohol treatment, mental health treatment, and job counseling to meet demand. Don't like it? scoot over to Aurora or California, or somewhere.

Not the leftist stance of.. oh well, so you don't like rules? Awww, poor thing. Why don't we turn the city into squalor and allow open garbage piles, rats and defecation so we don't hurt anybody's feelings. Heck, Lets just permit it ALL, shooting up in parks, brazen violence, property theft and please vandalize as much as possible. This will surely be utopia, right?

Don't mean to be flippant, but just permitting a 'free for all' because you feel bad about the situation will do nothing to actually help the homeless, and most likely will just encourage more self-destructive behavior.

[Brainpathology]

Originally Posted by Arapahoe

Not the leftist stance of.. oh well, so you don't like rules? Awww, poor thing. Why don't we turn the city into squalor and allow open garbage piles, rats and defecation so we don't hurt anybody's feelings. Heck, Lets just permit it ALL, shooting up in parks, brazen violence, property theft and please vandalize as much as possible. This will surely be utopia, right?

Replace "homeless" with literally any other group or ethnicity and stereotype them thusly and see how long you last in your job, on social media, in any other social group. Gross, seriously. But if it makes you feel better about treating them like chattel to be rounded up, I guess more power to you.

[bobg]

Originally Posted by Brainpathology

Replace "homeless" with literally any other group or ethnicity and stereotype them thusly and see how long you last in your job, on social media, in any other social group. Gross, seriously. But if it makes you feel better about treating them like chattel to be rounded up, I guess more power to you.

The homeless aren't a protected class and you're not locked into homelessness by virtue of your birth. You're doing the equivalent of saying blue lives matter to someone saying black lives matter. That is truly gross.

What they are describing is literally what Civic center park was like for several months. No one is under the delusion that just kicking the homeless out will solve everything. A lot of what you are advocating is being tried at various levels and different scales. There's also a ton of different ideas they are trying as well to see what is effective. IMO Hancock let this fester for too long, and it finally blew up. That's leading to both draconian measures to sanitize areas that have spiraled out of control, and a flood of resources going to mental health, treatment, and 24/7 shelters.

There is plenty of other things that probably could be done but the city is running behind and playing catch up on it. But it is being taken seriously finally.

[Arapahoe]

Originally Posted by Brainpathology

Replace "homeless" with literally any other group or ethnicity and stereotype them thusly and see how long you last in your job, on social media, in any other social group. Gross, seriously. But if it makes you feel better about treating them like chattel to be rounded up, I guess more power to you.

That is called a straw man argument and a logical fallacy. Its employed weakly by those who can't defend their position on its own merits.

Camping Bans, Trespassing Laws, and Park Operating Hours are statutes already on the books in Denver. It is the law of the land.

Providing homeless with shelter, sanitation and services is not herding cattle. No one is being forced, however, our existing laws need to be enforced for the betterment of the city as a whole.