Phoenix | Astra Towers (2 towers) | 541 FT | 44 Floors & 425 FT | 30 Floors

[PhxPavilion]

Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro

The shorter one is to be in the 400' range. 600' would never get FAA's blessing on the Astra lot and Phoenix won't push it when it comes to the FAA. The taller building is already going to be 10' higher than the original lot zoning height allowed after receiving a height variance from the city. We were lucky to get that.

The flight path is south of Jefferson, the FAA's height limitations are largely arbitrary and assume worst case scenarios. The map allows for 600' not that much further West of where Astra is going along 7th ave. There's really no reasonable justification they couldn't allow for 600' besides officials being obstinate and overly careful. You really think a difference of 65' will matter? When's the last time you've ever seen a plane come anywhere remotely close to a building in downtown Phoenix?

Las Vegas' airport is also very close to the strip and they have over 600' towers. The Phoenix mentality is the problem. Though I'm well aware that our massive size and sprawl is also the primary culprit.

[PhxPavilion]

Originally Posted by locolife

Not disappointing in the slightest, filling in more empty space with density is a great thing. Really excited for Astra to go.

You guys are always just satisfied with fill in but we inevitably end up getting one bland box after another, nothing that stands out. I'm frankly just tired of the decades of mediocrity. Meanwhile, even though Tempe is height limited even more so at least a majority of their buildings are architecturally impressive.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by PhxPavilion

You guys are always just satisfied with fill in but we inevitably end up getting one bland box after another, nothing that stands out. I'm frankly just tired of the decades of mediocrity. Meanwhile, even though Tempe is height limited even more so at least a majority of their buildings are architecturally impressive.

The vast majority of buildings in every city ae generic boxes

There needs to be an incentive for unique architecture especially in our hyper materialistic modern zeitgeist.

Unique or non-generic buildings will be built to appeal to high cost rentals, expensive condos and new Class A office. None of which is being built downtown right now and wont be until it gets more dense and more desirable.

You are putting the cart WAY before the horse

[PhxPavilion]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

I can't believe as a group we've resorted to explaining how demand works.

It's not about lack of demand in this particular case, that's what you're not understanding. They say they have the demand to build two towers, one 535 and another 400, they could easily reduce the shorter one and increase the taller one which would create differentiation in the design and look better on the skyline. It's the Phoenix height mentality that's the problem.

[PhxPavilion]

Originally Posted by Obadno

The vast majority of buildings in every city ae generic boxes

There needs to be an incentive for unique architecture especially in our hyper materialistic modern zeitgeist.

Unique or non-generic buildings will be built to appeal to high cost rentals, expensive condos and new Class A office. None of which is being built downtown right now and wont be until it gets more dense and more desirable.

You are putting the cart WAY before the horse

Astra is going to be high cost rentals and/or expensive condos. And I largely disagree with regard to other cities having mostly generic boxes. Many other cities much smaller than Phoenix have much nicer and taller buildings.

[michael85225]

Residential buildings are the least attractive when it comes to high rises but Astra will be saved because it has some flashy and multiple shades of blue going on with that glass. I wish they would do something crazy with the roof but that's just wishful thinking unfortunately. I'm tired of boxes too but in order for Phoenix to get some cool looking towers we need a company to invest alot of money into building their headquarters here. Look at Google and what they are pulling off in Austin and Frost Bank in San Antonio.

[MMDelon]

The height restrictions do seem silly to me but I do agree that there isn’t a demand for a super tall tower in downtown Phoenix. The current projects are barely scratching 300’. We don’t even know if the Central Station project will happen. I don’t think Phoenix has done a good job of creating a downtown core. There is severe lack of entertainment, shopping, bars, clubs, and restaurants in the downtown core. If Phoenix is bought in on building up their downtown it’s going to take another 10-15 years to create that downtown core culture. These things take time and planning. I’m not happy about it but it’s the truth.

[YourBuddy]

Looking at the height limit map on page 2, why exactly is there a limit of 250’ north of McKinley? I would think that with so many empty lots so close to Margaret T Hance park you could draw in a really nice office or residential tower. Especially with the renovations happening.

[combusean]

Originally Posted by YourBuddy

Looking at the height limit map on page 2, why exactly is there a limit of 250’ north of McKinley? I would think that with so many empty lots so close to Margaret T Hance park you could draw in a really nice office or residential tower. Especially with the renovations happening.

West Roosevelt/RAA is pretty urban but they're still skeptical of high-rise encroachment. All those people lived through the arsons and everything else of the 1980s and 1990s.

The fact is the market decided on the 250' height limit long ago and that's why so much is right around there. Before Urban Form, everything was zoned HRI (high-rise incentive) wand nothing got developed, Phoenix saw land banking and tear downs instead. What was built was built to be sold, and typically didn't represent irrational exuberance like certain projects that ran into trouble anyways like Central Park East or 44 Monroe. In any event, neighborhoods like RAA tend to be pragmatic about these things.

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by PhxPavilion

It's not about lack of demand in this particular case, that's what you're not understanding.

Oh, really. I don't understand?

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by PhxPavilion

Astra is going to be high cost rentals and/or expensive condos. And I largely disagree with regard to other cities having mostly generic boxes. Many other cities much smaller than Phoenix have much nicer and taller buildings.

I have had this conversation so many times.

Smaller cities generally the downtown IS their premier business district unlike Phoenix, which was literally a ghost town 15 years ago.

If instead of having the Camelback corridor, and Scottsdale, and north Scottsdale, and Tempe, and the Price corridor, in a smaller city (most metros) most of that would have been centralized downtown and things would have been different.

LA suffers from the same problem it just happens to be much larger than us.

And absolutely the vast majority of buildings are forgettable boxes.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by MMDelon

There is severe lack of entertainment, shopping, bars, clubs, and restaurants in the downtown core.

Did you just come out of a 20 year coma?

[MMDelon]

If that’s what you think then go with it.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by MMDelon

If that’s what you think then go with it.

"There is severe lack of entertainment, shopping, bars, clubs, and restaurants in the downtown core." - MMDelon

Okay then I will assume that's your confusion. You should check it out lots has changed since your unfortunate medical condition.,

[TJPHXskyscraperfan]

Originally Posted by MMDelon

The height restrictions do seem silly to me but I do agree that there isn’t a demand for a super tall tower in downtown Phoenix. The current projects are barely scratching 300’. We don’t even know if the Central Station project will happen. I don’t think Phoenix has done a good job of creating a downtown core. There is severe lack of entertainment, shopping, bars, clubs, and restaurants in the downtown core. If Phoenix is bought in on building up their downtown it’s going to take another 10-15 years to create that downtown core culture. These things take time and planning. I’m not happy about it but it’s the truth.

The only thing downtown is lacking is shopping and that’s just the sign of the times. One thing downtown is definitely not lacking is bars and entertainment. These new Sports books is adding to it too! Fandual at The Suns arena and Caesar’s going in at the Dbacks stadium. Name me one city besides Vegas with that happening!!!

[MMDelon]

If you think downtown Phoenix has vibrant entertainment core with restaurants, bars, shopping, and restaurants then go with it. Compared to other big cities it’s not even comparable. Phoenix has come a long way but it’s still very behind.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by MMDelon

If you think downtown Phoenix has vibrant entertainment core with restaurants, bars, shopping, and restaurants then go with it. Compared to other big cities it’s not even comparable. Phoenix has come a long way but it’s still very behind.

Why dont you go open one ?

Besides me just being a — you are completely wrong there are a tone of dining and entertainment options downtown, I can only assume you haven't been. I am not saying this out of ignorance it has easily as many bar options as Scottsdale and Music Venues of Tempe.

[MMDelon]

It’s not that serious but that is cool if you believe that.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by MMDelon

It’s not that serious but that is cool if you believe that.

What is this confusion of objective reality and opinion?

[biggus diggus]

If we were able to prove that one of you is 100% correct, what would you gain in life?

The rest of us would gain our sanity because you'd stop fighting.