Federal Government & Politics | Election 2021 FORUM POLL

[electricmodes]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

There is no serious movement on the part of the party establishment to interfere with abortion access, or regarding conversion therapy. At most, they might allow a free vote on a private members bill, but this is just a safety valve and "free speech" sort of thing. JT crows about a conspiracy on the part of the far right at every opportunity, but this is a red herring, and fearmongering to the nth degree. Shame on him.

As for aboriginal rights, JT has no reason to gloat or appear morally superior on this issue. At most, JT has refined the art of virtue signaling regarding reconciliation.

People like to say that the abortion thing is nothing to worry about. But sure, in a parliament where they don't have the power to move the needle that may be true. If they aren't a threat on this front, then why bother even trying to make it a wedge issue by bringing it up virtually every parliament? The debate is settled in law - time for them to move on. O'toole should have disciplined his MPs for going through with this "free speech" safety valve.

As for JT, yeah he's really great at the performative schtick and it's unappealing to a lot of voters. Even though I may not agree with him, at least he had the balls to take a hard line with his members who didn't tow the party line. Could he have done a better job on indigenous affairs, certainly. Is there a lot to criticize him for? Absolutely. Does that mean we should hand the keys to government to a spineless flip flopper who has at best a tenuous hold on his own party? Definitely not.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by caveat.doctor

It's an incremental process, and part of it is initial positive reinforcement at the election. For example, it was in 2014 that the Liberals made being pro-choice a candidate requirement. They then won in 2015. It's now a core part of the Liberal value offer. The shifts in the Conservative platform for this election similarly need to be positively reinforced.

The CPC has yet to tell us which of its candidates are or are not vaccinated.

Originally Posted by caveat.doctor

Fair point, but the effect is the same - the strong the PPC gets, the more it will become the natural "home" for that element; and the more political space that that a Conservative Party and leaders should have to adopt a more centrist approach. But again, only if Canadians broadly come out to support it.

There are still likely many right-wing CPC supporters who aren't willing to move to the PPC that they still have to balance. Today the PPC are a radical fringe, but if they manage seat(s) then they become more reputable, which in turn makes it more appealing for even more CPC supporters to move, particularly if that party is moving more to the centre and isn't willing to open the book on things like abortion or conversion therapy. There's still more room for the PPC to grow, and it's up to the CPC to ensure that they don't lose (even) more voters than they already have, presumably. Trying to go up against the LPC in the gooey, moderate middle will likely not work as well for the CPC as people think.

Originally Posted by electricmodes

As for JT, yeah he's really great at the performative schtick and it's unappealing to a lot of voters. Even though I may not agree with him, at least he had the balls to take a hard line with his members who didn't tow the party line. Could he have done a better job on indigenous affairs, certainly. Is there a lot to criticize him for? Absolutely. Does that mean we should hand the keys to government to a spineless flip flopper who has at best a tenuous hold on his own party? Definitely not.

Trudeau being a not-great PM is not reason enough to vote CPC.

[Acajack]

Abortion is decriminalized in Canada but access is still a pretty major issue in a number of areas of Canada, including New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island.

I don't know if it's due to governments dragging their feet deliberately or some other factors, but clearly it's not that big a priority in those provinces or else it would have been resolved by now, no?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by JHikka

There are still likely many right-wing CPC supporters who aren't willing to move to the PPC that they still have to balance. Today the PPC are a radical fringe, but if they manage seat(s) then they become more reputable, which in turn makes it more appealing for even more CPC supporters to move, particularly if that party is moving more to the centre and isn't willing to open the book on things like abortion or conversion therapy. There's still more room for the PPC to grow, and it's up to the CPC to ensure that they don't lose (even) more voters than they already have, presumably. Trying to go up against the LPC in the gooey, moderate middle will likely not work as well for the CPC as people think.

Perhaps, but Canada still deserves a reliable government-in-waiting for a stable parliamentary system to exist and to function well. We need to avoid both a de facto one party state and US style polarization. The CPC has to move to the middle and to become more attractive to urbanist voters (without alienating their rural base).

This political stability is accomplished only by having two centrist options available for the voters consideration (LPC and CPC).

Ideological politics is a curse. There's gotta be a better way.

[esquire]

What can a federal government even do regarding restricting access to abortion? I suppose it could be criminalized but that would be regarded as a pretty harsh measure by most.

I would think it's provincial governments that have much more sway on that file anyway, since they're the ones actually funding the service. I know that in Manitoba for many years provincial governments have taken a pretty minimalist approach on abortion, making it technically available but not particularly easy to access, especially for those living in rural or northern areas.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

There is no serious movement on the part of the party establishment to interfere with abortion access, or regarding conversion therapy. At most, they might allow a free vote on a private members bill, but this is just a safety valve and "free speech" sort of thing.

With all due respect, this is the sort of tone deaf stuff that puts them on the wrong side of major demographics. I suspect, women, more than any other major demographic probably fear the CPC more than any other group.

If as you say, these votes are inconsequential, why allow them to reach the floor of the Commons? Leave them to the debate on the convention floor. Don't blame voters for seeing these actions and then writing off the CPC as not having moderated.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

JT crows about a conspiracy on the part of the far right at every opportunity, but this is a red herring, and fearmongering to the nth degree. Shame on him.

JT can say whatever he wants. What operatives from other parties should be concerned about is why those narratives stick.

Instead of asking themselves how they have failed voters such that so many are still willing to re-elect the Liberals after all the scandals, all I see are angry partisans attacking voters and calling them morons. And I don't just mean on forums. Here's Warren Kinsella mansplaining to women in the Toronto Sun on the weekend:

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/kinsella-women-know-the-real-truth-about-trudeau

[esquire]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Perhaps, but Canada still deserves a reliable government-in-waiting for a stable parliamentary system to exist and to function well. We need to avoid both a de facto one party state and US style polarization. The CPC has to move to the middle and to become more attractive to urbanist voters (without alienating their rural base).

This political stability is accomplished only by having two centrist options available for the voters consideration (LPC and CPC).

Ideological politics is a curse. There's gotta be a better way.

I agree with this, I do not want to see a polarized electorate.

I honestly wonder how much of the agitation from the extremes (most visibly from the right) is coming from foreign sources with an interest in destabilizing Canadian society.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Abortion is decriminalized in Canada but access is still a pretty major issue in a number of areas of Canada, including New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island.

This is more a provincial issue than a federal issue, although the feds could without health transfer funding (but then who exactly are they punishing).

In NB there are three hospitals providing abortion access (one in Bathurst and two in Moncton), but curiously none in SJ or Freddy. This absolutely should be addressed.

In Freddy JT has come out in support of funding for abortion services at a private clinic, which is a curious position since he seems so against private health care in general. Is JT talking out of both sides of his mouth?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

What can a federal government even do regarding restricting access to abortion? I suppose it could be criminalized but that would be regarded as a pretty harsh measure by most.

I would think it's provincial governments that have much more sway on that file anyway, since they're the ones actually funding the service. I know that in Manitoba for many years provincial governments have taken a pretty minimalist approach on abortion, making it technically available but not particularly easy to access, especially for those living in rural or northern areas.

Good points though the feds are responsible for the Canada Health Act and do exercise a lot of national leadership on the health care file.

Plus it's not as if certain provincial governments' laws and actions haven't been major federal election issues this year, right?

[MolsonExport]

Wife and I just voted (Liberal). Lineups, but we were in and out within 45 minutes.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Plus it's not as if certain provincial governments' laws and actions haven't been major federal election issues this year, right?

Bahahaha... touché

[q12]

PPC polling up to nearly 20% support in Alberta. Crazy.

[urbandreamer]

I've been voting for the NDP since 2011, although I feel pretty alienated by the party these days. Overall the Liberals have the best platform; the PC party plan would personally ruin my financial future; the PPC is the only choice if you want cheaper housing - lower immigration would crash the housing market.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by q12

PPC polling up to nearly 20% support in Alberta. Crazy.

EKOS regionals have high margin of error. That 20% could be as low as 10%.

[lio45]

4 Bloc voters in total, I didn't even know the Canada section had that many active Québécois users! (Plus Acajack doesn't vote BQ so there's three others out there, not only two.)

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Fair enough.

I just hope O'Toole does well enough in this election to avoid a purge, and to stay around long enough to put more of a stamp on the party at the riding level. The changes will be incremental.

If however voters remain determined to punish Stephen Harper (seven years later), then O'Toole will be gone and polarized politics will return.

Is this what we want? If you truly want to support change, and to avoid US style polarized politics in this country, then vote for O'Toole. If you want a Canadian style Republican Party to rise from the ashes, then cast your ballot for JT or Singh........

I understand what you're saying but it's kinda funny to hear a Conservative pitch that boils down to: "Vote CPC now before we go full Republican". Though I know you didn't mean it that way it almost sounds like a Mafia extortion racket. Doesn't instill much confidence in the party if it's that close to being overrun by extremist zealots.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Is JT talking out of both sides of his mouth?

I never thought I'd miss Jean Chrétien someday, but here we are

[q12]

FYI this poll closes in 1 hour if you want to get your vote in.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Similar to how if you own a prime piece of land in the city the municipality will charge you somewhat punitive taxes in order to incite you to develop it.

Gatineau implemented this a number of years ago and Sherbrooke followed suit pretty much immediately after, but it's far from all cities that do that. (In your statement, I'd replace that "will" with a "should" and we're in full agreement!)

And that's something I'm personally suffering from (I'm sitting on land in the heart of downtown that I won't develop, as a result I've been paying that special "prime vacant land" tax for years now), yet I can recognize it's for the greater good

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by q12

PPC polling up to nearly 20% support in Alberta. Crazy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facepalm