General Updates and News

[someone123]

This is an interesting conversation but it's not really project related. I continued my comments in a new thread: https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=9393513

[someone123]

Looks like the Tramway Building work has started:


Source

[Antigonish]

.

[mleblanc]

Originally Posted by someone123

Looks like the Tramway Building work has started:


Source

Nice shot! If the Tramway is still owned by Steve Caryi, owner of the NFB building down the street, then I'll be excited about its completion in 2121.

The Discovery Centre and Green Lantern turned out beautifully, though. Shame it's not taller, but still, looks great.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by mleblanc

Nice shot! If the Tramway is still owned by Steve Caryi, owner of the NFB building down the street, then I'll be excited about its completion in 2121.

I wonder if they had to push back the NFB building completion to 2070 to handle both at the same time.

(In fairness it looks like NFB is coming along and I'm interested to see what it looks like with the final finishes.)

The Discovery Centre and Green Lantern turned out beautifully, though. Shame it's not taller, but still, looks great.

They just need to fix the vents by matching the sandstone.

This picture is such a mixed bag. There's a blob of run down stuff around here roughly following that Blowers axis, made worse by the decline and demolition of the Ralston. I like the businesses on the Green Lantern block but it's too bad those little buildings were never filled in a bit more. An expansion of the 60's style building on the corner, extended up to the viewplane limit, with a separate "Barrington Espace" for those 4 little facades, would look neat. The Pacific Building is maybe the worst remaining heritage building that is crying out for a restoration now that something is happening with the Dennis Building.

[mleblanc]

Originally Posted by someone123

This picture is such a mixed bag. There's a blob of run down stuff around here roughly following that Blowers axis, made worse by the decline and demolition of the Ralston. I like the businesses on the Green Lantern block but it's too bad those little buildings were never filled in a bit more. An expansion of the 60's style building on the corner, extended up to the viewplane limit, with a separate "Barrington Espace" for those 4 little facades, would look neat. The Pacific Building is maybe the worst remaining heritage building that is crying out for a restoration now that something is happening with the Dennis Building.

I definitely agree with you on this, at the same time, I also find this picture showcases some of the best potential within downtown Halifax.

Pacific Building is in pitiful shape, but I think it has good bones and a developer with the money and interest could make a neat project out of that block. I hope they don't end up wrecking it, but I could see it happen. I might be biased after working at Chives for years in school.

The MEC building with surrounding misc. Barrington St. retail does seem awkward from above, although with how large the Ralston actually site is, could just be the photo. Combined this with the art gallery, Cunard block, potential Irving lands redevelopment across the harbour, I'm excited to save this picture and check back in a few years to compare.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by mleblanc

I...potential Irving lands redevelopment across the harbour

Irving? I assume you mean the former Imperial Oil refinery site. Irving does own lands just to the north of there, but they're in very active use as a marine terminal and not likely to be redeveloped. Imperial also still operates a very busy marine terminal just south of the Irving operation.

But the refinery lands just cry out for some kind of development. Some have suggested relocating the PSA container terminal there, though from a practical perspective it's tough to envision a workable railroad connection. Routing streams of double-stacked container trains through the existing line through downtown Dartmouth is not going to fly, but where could new lines possibly be built? Seems like a tough logistical nut to crack.

Also, one can only imagine what's in the ground there after 100+ years of petroleum refining!

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

Also, one can only imagine what's in the ground there after 100+ years of petroleum refining!

Well, Fort Clarence for starters...

https://hmhps.ca/sites/eastern-battery-or-fort-clarence

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Well, Fort Clarence for starters... ;

Good point! I wish I'd thought of that. It's definitely a bit of lost local history.

[mleblanc]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

Irving? I assume you mean the former Imperial Oil refinery site. Irving does own lands just to the north of there, but they're in very active use as a marine terminal and not likely to be redeveloped. Imperial also still operates a very busy marine terminal just south of the Irving operation.

Oops! That's what I meant, yeah

[bluenoser]

Gratuitous North End crane shot including Richmond Yards as well as the Elevation on Robie (foreground) and, and North Station (far right).



Source: Saltwire: Halifax better off than Canada's big cities, where offices remain stubbornly empty

[someone123]

What stands out to me about that shot is how there wasn't that big of a gap in years between the construction of the suburban Shoppers and Rona and then a new tallest tower in the city next door. On the one hand the transformation in this area is very positive. On the other it could have been nicer with some small changes, most notably an urban style development of the Shoppers.

Also note Bloomfield on the left. Derelict HRM site with tons of private construction all around. City says they care very deeply about affordable housing. How many affordable housing units could have gone in there had redevelopment been accomplished within a 10 year timeframe? I feel there is a disconnect here.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

Also note Bloomfield on the left. Derelict HRM site with tons of private construction all around. City says they care very deeply about affordable housing. How many affordable housing units could have gone in there had redevelopment been accomplished within a 10 year timeframe? I feel there is a disconnect here.

Bang on.

Not to mention that the longer the Bloomfield site development is delayed the less chance there will be to save and re-purpose the 1919 school building, if it's not already too late.



Source

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by someone123

Also note Bloomfield on the left. Derelict HRM site with tons of private construction all around. City says they care very deeply about affordable housing. How many affordable housing units could have gone in there had redevelopment been accomplished within a 10 year timeframe? I feel there is a disconnect here.

Fact check: it’s a former HRM site now owned by BANC, although Halef is promising a design soon.

Housing NS had the means to make something happen, but cleaned its hands before housing became a larger part of political discourse.

With land acquisition being such a barrier to social ownership projects, selling off any public land negates such an opportunity. Who benefits? Halef of course.

[someone123]

The sale from HRM to Banc happened in early 2021. The site has been empty for many years.

My impression is it was sold to Banc because they submitted the highest bid, $22M.

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by someone123

The sale from HRM to Banc happened in early 2021. The site has been empty for many years.

My impression is it was sold to Banc because they submitted the highest bid, $22M.

Yes, apparently Halef thought the site was worth that much and he is free to add value in the form of housing, which many Haligonians may be able to afford for the right price.

Still doesn’t say much about why public land was listed in the first place.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

Yes, apparently Halef thought the site was worth that much and he is free to add value in the form of housing, which many Haligonians may be able to afford for the right price.

This was public land for 10 years+ and during that time it generated basically no value. There were public housing proposals, sure, but for one reason or another they didn't pan out.

The current plan is apparently for 40 affordable housing units and 360 market rate, plus HRM gets $22M they can spend on affordable housing if they want. It's not clear this is worse for housing affordability than HRM holding onto that unused site for who knows how many more years.

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by someone123

This was public land for 10 years+ and during that time it generated basically no value. There were public housing proposals, sure, but for one reason or another they didn't pan out.

The current plan is apparently for 40 affordable housing units and 360 market rate, plus HRM gets $22M they can spend on affordable housing if they want. It's not clear this is worse for housing affordability than HRM holding onto that unused site for who knows how many more years.

Yes everyone knows it was idle public land for ages. Everyone knows proposals for social ownership never amounted to anything. These points need no repetition.

Who benefits from HRM leaving the site idle though? - Halef. Who has promised all 22 million would go towards housing? - Silence…
Banc developing and owning the site now offers a better short term deal vs. being idle, but did cost an asset that will sting for decades ahead.
Why did proposals for social ownership never amount to anything?

Not expecting anyone to answer these, but there could be some recognition these are questions lacking adequate answers.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

Yes everyone knows it was idle public land for ages. Everyone knows proposals for social ownership never amounted to anything. These points need no repetition.

Who benefits from HRM leaving the site idle though? - Halef. Who has promised all 22 million would go towards housing? - Silence…
Banc developing and owning the site now offers a better short term deal vs. being idle, but did cost an asset that will sting for decades ahead.
Why did proposals for social ownership never amount to anything?

Not expecting anyone to answer these, but there could be some recognition these are questions lacking adequate answers.

Since you seem to have missed the decade+ discourse on this property, here is a capsule summary to bring you up to speed:

- Bloomfield school property is abandoned as a school site and HRM takes possession.
- Area do-gooder groups band together and create a vision ("Imagine Bloomfield") of what the site should be according to them if only enough taxpayer money can be thrown at it. This includes cultural & arts centres, subsidized space for nonprofits, gardens/green space, and some housing.
- HRM calls for proposals for a stripped-down development that had only a few elements of the Imagine vision. Those people get their noses out of joint and separate themselves from the process.
- Responses to the HRM call for proposals result in several viable possibilities but those are all trumped by a blockbuster from Housing NS i.e. the provincial govt, as the then-NDP offers untold riches in taxpayer gold to HRM in return for the ability for them to construct a publicly-funded nirvana. HRM takes the bait. So does a reinvigorated Imagine Bloomfield group; they align themselves with the NDP proposal.
- Time passes; nothing happens. The NDP govt is turfed, and the new govt realizes the Housing NS proposal was pure pie in the sky as there is no money nor any capacity within that organization to actually construct anything like what has been proposed. Radio silence from HNS leads Imagine Bloomfield to jump ship again. After several years of political dithering, the HNS proposal is withdrawn.
- Left with a deteriorating and liability-filled property, HRM realizes they need someone to take the site off their hands and actually do something with it. HRM once again tries its luck by putting the property on the market with far few strings attached. Bids are received; the one from BANC is deemed best and accepted.
- Early in 2021 HRM cashes the $22M cheque from BANC and heaves a sigh of relief. It is now his problem. (Rumor is they allocate the money to building bike lanes, speed bumps, and curb bump-outs, but that has never been confirmed)
- The clock starts on the usual 5 to 7-year schedule for any development of this size.

Why did all this happen, you ask? This timeline lays it out clearly for you. Incompetence by HRM; incompetence/gullibility by the Imagine Bloomfield community group; incompetence by the provincial NDP govt; and incompetence by Housing NS. There is lots of blame to go around. None of it belongs to BANC. I'm sure that must be disappointing to you.

[gohaligo]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Since you seem to have missed the decade+ discourse on this property, here is a capsule summary to bring you up to speed:

- Bloomfield school property is abandoned as a school site and HRM takes possession.
- Area do-gooder groups band together and create a vision ("Imagine Bloomfield") of what the site should be according to them if only enough taxpayer money can be thrown at it. This includes cultural & arts centres, subsidized space for nonprofits, and some housing.
- HRM calls for proposals for a stripped-down development that had only a few elements of the Imagine vision. Those people get their noses out of joint and separate themselves from the process.
- Responses to the HRM call for proposals result in several viable possibilities but those are all trumped by a blockbuster from Housing NS i.e. the provincial govt, as the then-NDP offers untold riches in taxpayer gold to HRM in return for the ability for them to construct a publicly-funded nirvana. HRM takes the bait.
- Time passes; nothing happens. The NDP govt is turfed, and the new govt realizes the Housing NS proposal was pure pie in the sky as there is no money nor any capacity within that organization to actually construct anything like what has been proposed. After several years of dithering, the HNS proposal is withdrawn.
- Left with a deteriorating and liability-filled property, HRM realizes they need someone to take the site off their hands and actually do something with it. HRM once again tries its luck by putting the property on the market with far few strings attached. Bids are received; the one from BANC is deemed best and accepted.
- Early in 2021 HRM cashes the $22M cheque from BANC and heaves a sigh of relief. It is now his problem. (Rumor is they allocate the money to building bike lanes, speed bumps, and curb bump-outs, but that has never been confirmed)
- The clock starts on the usual 5 to 7-year schedule for any development of this size.

Why did all this happen, you ask? This timeline lays it out clearly for you. Incompetence by HRM; incompetence by the Imagine Bloomfield community group; incompetence by the provincial NDP govt; and incompetence by Housing NS. There is lots of blame to go around. None of it belongs to BANC. I'm sure that must be disappointing to you.

Great timeline love the added saltiness. The only thing I'd add is the 2 solid weeks the province though they could build a Junior High School on it.
The City always goes for the cash.