LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 6.0

[CaliNative]

Originally Posted by citywatch

I have nostalgia for the good parts of old LA, such as the atlantic richfield oil bldg or the bradbury mansion on bunker hill, lost in the 1920s. But I don't over romanticize old LA either, dt or otherwise.

The city has historically not made many of its residents or visitors write 'i left my heart' type songs or 'i love NYC' type mottos for it. There's a reason for that....ppl tend to feel better about things that impress or look nice.

this is a newer version of a film from the 1940s of bunker hill & a video of the same route taken since the grand ave proj started rising...


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Bunker hill today may not be perfect, but no way do I want the area as it was over 40-70 yrs ago. If ppl feel too much the other way, they tend to become nimbys.

I like the new developments, like the Gehry concert hall and the Gehry Grand project. Wells Fargo Center, etc., just fine. Just wish some of the nicer victorians had been left intact in situ, restored. Do they still exist in " Heritage Square"?

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by CaliNative

Do they still exist in " Heritage Square"?

Two of them were hit by arson as they were being prepped to be moved. I posted a segment of an old TV show a few wks ago that featured them as part of its plot.

meanwhile, another great change to dtla.....


https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2...ner-newspaper-opens-downtown-los-angeles

(Al Seib / Los Angeles Times)

The building remained vacant except for use as a filming site. At one point it was the second-most-filmed location in the Los Angeles area, according to a review of permit data.


The once-blighted neighborhood around the old newspaper headquarters is being transformed with apartments, hotels and offices. Not far away, the Ace Hotel and theater in a former 1920s office tower has become a thriving recreation destination since it opened in 2014.

Some early plans for renovating the Herald Examiner Building called for converting it for residential use, but now it is surrounded with thousands of new apartments including a complex built on former Herald Examiner property directly behind the structure. Just to the north, a Canadian developer is offering a renovated 12-story office building completed in 1925 for lease.

Two old brick-clad office buildings nearby are being turned into hip boutique hotels, the Downtown L.A. Proper Hotel and the Hoxton. The 148-room Proper is a $50-million makeover of the former Case Hotel, a 13-story tower built in the mid-1920s. It is set to open within weeks.

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[ocman]

Bicyclette was supposedly going to open in Herald Examiner. The chef backed out and it’s the hottest new restaurant in the city right now. It would have activated that street significantly for that area, so that was a big loss.

https://www.instagram.com/bicyclette.la/

[dktshb]

Originally Posted by LA21st

There's some big NYC boosters on this forum, but NYC reddit is much more honest about the covid situation. The NYC boosters here (like Chicago) try to pretend everything is fine compared to LA and made those comments .
I've been to Chicago this year, it's not the same. I love Chicago, but some of these Chicagoans are kidding themselves.
I'm guessing this video is the truth about NYC these days.

I was just in NYC in late July and wow is that city moving forward. Sure there are vacant retail scattered around but you really don't notice it. What a clean vibrant city devoid of homeless people. I wish Pershing Square could be as nice and lively as Bryant Park, which is similar is size. I went to downtown LA when I returned and was a bit depressed about the homelessness and the dirty streets. We got a long way to go to make Downtown cohesive, clean and interesting. We are moving in the right direction. I only wish we were 30 years ahead of where we are at now.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by dktshb

I was just in NYC in late July and wow is that city moving forward. Sure there are vacant retail scattered around but you really don't notice it. What a clean vibrant city devoid of homeless people. I wish Pershing Square could be as nice and lively as Bryant Park, which is similar is size. I went to downtown LA when I returned and was a bit depressed about the homelessness and the dirty streets. We got a long way to go to make Downtown cohesive, clean and interesting. We are moving in the right direction. I only wish we were 30 years ahead of where we are at now.

I've never heard anyone call NYC clean lol. And the NYC videos are all pretty recent. Looks pretty noticeable to me, and the you tube comments all say the same thing. As does NYC reddit.

Is Manhattan better than downtown LA? Well, duh. But it surely is affected by covid and who knows how they're gonna handle the tens of millions of vacant office space there.

[dktshb]

Originally Posted by LA21st

I've never heard anyone call NYC clean lol. And the NYC videos are all pretty recent. Looks pretty noticeable to me, and the you tube comments all say the same thing. As does NYC reddit.

Is Manhattan better than downtown LA? Well, duh. But it surely is affected by covid and who knows how they're gonna handle the tens of millions of vacant office space there.

Compared to Downtown LA it was very clean. This is just my anecdotal observations. I was there for 4 days and was all over the city and overall it is in much better shape than downtown LA. No visible homeless people, clean beautiful parks, clean sidewalks and pretty vibrant despite covid.

[nmkef]

I think the only two parks in downtown that remind me of the nicer NYC parks you refer to would be Grand Park across from City Hall and Grand Hope Park on 9th & Hope. Both are relatively clean and actually have a variety of people inside including families relaxing. One big reason of course is that Grand Hope is closed via gate/fence at sundown...

The nicer parts of Manhattan are of course nicer than basically anywhere in DTLA. It would be more appropriate to compare them to some of the green space around Century City or Beverly Hills, despite the difference in urban density. There are plenty of run down and "sketchy" areas in NYC depending on where you end up walking (usually not the main tourist areas, like some parts around Chinatown or Hell's Kitchen from when I last visited) that can rival at least some of the Fashion district, though I think we are unmatched when it comes to Skid Row....

I don't think it's ever unfair for us to wish for more well-maintained public space in LA in general, not to mention DTLA.

I hadn't realized that Bicyclette was intended to open at the Herald Examiner building, that really is a huge loss as that's the type of upscale casual that the area needs more of. With Proper hotel and its multiple restuarants/bars opening probably in the next couple of weeks it should help somewhat, perhaps finally draw some other businesses to open in all the empty retail on that lower stretch of Broadway.

Minor development update (a few weeks late) from that hotel planned at the small lot on 1130 S Hope St. The developer caved to some of the nearby condo resident complaints and reduced the height of the project from 106ft (13fl) to 70ft (8fl), though only at the cost of around 30 guest rooms as they removed the entire onsite parking garage. I'm actually pretty happy to see a project like this show up and not include parking given proximity to conference center and transit - it's the perfect location for people staying for the week and walking to a conference or taking the upcoming regional connector to some office building in the financial district. They're getting around the parking requirements by renting spots at a nearby lot, and will likely discontinue that once DTLA2040 is finally approved.



https://urbanize.city/la/post/downtown-1130-hope-street-hotel

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by dktshb

I was just in NYC in late July and wow is that city moving forward. Sure there are vacant retail scattered around but you really don't notice it. What a clean vibrant city devoid of homeless people. I wish Pershing Square could be as nice and lively as Bryant Park, which is similar is size. I went to downtown LA when I returned and was a bit depressed about the homelessness and the dirty streets. We got a long way to go to make Downtown cohesive, clean and interesting. We are moving in the right direction. I only wish we were 30 years ahead of where we are at now.

Originally Posted by LA21st

I've never heard anyone call NYC clean lol. And the NYC videos are all pretty recent. Looks pretty noticeable to me, and the you tube comments all say the same thing. As does NYC reddit.

Is Manhattan better than downtown LA? Well, duh. But it surely is affected by covid and who knows how they're gonna handle the tens of millions of vacant office space there.

I'm not sure whether you or dktshb are the most accurate or most subjective....so maybe splitting your two posts down the middle is the best option.

this was posted by the NYC native louis rossman within the past day, so it's quite current.


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^ the climate is different there & here.....a lot more sun & dryness means LA's streets build up a lot more dirt & the stuff that a city like SF is also having to deal with....homeless ppl using the sidewalks as toilets & campgrounds. But the weather here also makes the friendly, sunny palm tree vibe of LA different from the vibe of a NYC. That's why even Geoff palmer's faux Italian bad taste bldgs full of fountains & palms fits a certain niche not existing in many other cities, NY or otherwise.

I notice my own opinions depend on a lot of things....such as how much time I have, whether I have enough money or credit cards for the day, whether I've had lunch or dinner, whether I'm alone or with friends, family, or whether I'm thinking of other ppl's opinions or not.

I still recall visiting NYC yrs ago, when dtla was really struggling, & returning home appreciating things I hadn't in the past. But I also recall sensing that the east coast had a scale & level of wealth that made LA seem way less important. But that was yrs ago, before certain basic changes & improvements has taken place in LA or dtla.

Even today, I'll visit dt one day & come away with a different impression of it that I had 3 months or 3 yrs ago. Sometimes I'll have a more negative or more positive opinion.

Regardless of other cities, I think dtla has reached a level where it's past that point where it's way too noticeably weak or a work in progress.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by citywatch

I'm not sure whether you or dktshb are the most accurate or most subjective....so maybe splitting your two posts down the middle is the best option.

this was posted by the NYC native louis rossman within the past day, so it's quite current.


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^ the climate is different there & here.....a lot more sun & dryness means LA's streets build up a lot more dirt & the stuff that a city like SF is also having to deal with....homeless ppl using the sidewalks as toilets & campgrounds. But the weather here also makes the friendly, sunny palm tree vibe of LA different from the vibe of a NYC. That's why even Geoff palmer's faux Italian bad taste bldgs full of fountains & palms fits a certain niche not existing in many other cities, NY or otherwise.

I notice my own opinions depend on a lot of things....such as how much time I have, whether I have enough money or credit cards for the day, whether I've had lunch or dinner, whether I'm alone or with friends, family, or whether I'm thinking of other ppl's opinions or not.

I still recall visiting NYC yrs ago, when dtla was really struggling, & returning home appreciating things I hadn't in the past. But I also recall sensing that the east coast had a scale & level of wealth that made LA seem way less important. But that was yrs ago, before certain basic changes & improvements has taken place in LA or dtla.

Even today, I'll visit dt one day & come away with a different impression of it that I had 3 months or 3 yrs ago. Sometimes I'll have a more negative or more positive opinion.

Regardless of other cities, I think dtla has reached a level where it's past that point where it's way too noticeably weak or a work in progress.

LA's wealth isn't in downtown, that's a silly observation. Downtown LA is surrounded by some of the poorest parts of the region.

On the flip side to that,places like Bel Air or Pacific Palisades make some wealthy east coast towns look pretty humble in comparison. Hell, even Encino does.

[Zapatan]

I came across this today, it's from earlier this year

He’s working on L.A.’s next great skyscraper, Angels Landing.

https://www.latimes.com/business/real-es...-skyscraper-angels-landing-ricardo-pagan

He seems confident but perhaps a little too optimistic?

Could the pandemic potentially kill this project?

No. The likelihood of this project not happening is zero. Will we get delayed? Maybe. Will we go over budget? Maybe. But the pandemic has brought financial pressure to this city, so this project is more important than ever. This process started in 2013, and it’s like any other. It’s massive, it’s bureaucratic, but we’re committed, and we’re going to see it through. The current effects of the pandemic are temporary, and there are many years of continued growth for downtown L.A. and the Southern California region as a whole. Angels Landing will be the beacon of that resurgence.

Another from this year about the other big dawg

Crescent Heights’ 70-story DTLA rental tower may rise after all

https://therealdeal.com/la/2021/05/14/cr...ry-dtla-rental-tower-may-rise-after-all/

We know this is approved but I'm not sure if this has been posted yet

The 70-story project at 1045 S. Olive Street has encountered a number of obstacles but finally, it is nearing the finish line. The City Planning Commission this week approved the construction, sending it to the City Council for consideration, according to Urbanize.

Anyways I hope this and a few others are completed by the 2028 Olympics

[citywatch]

^ It will be great if the devlprs can pull that off....

Originally Posted by LA21st

LA's wealth isn't in downtown, that's a silly observation. Downtown LA is surrounded by some of the poorest parts of the region.

I'd be the last to say that the LA's wealth has been in its center.....financial health started leaving dtla over 80 yrs ago. It's one of the major reasons why dt fell very far down to begin with & never recovered for decades. No other major city has had such a historically important section of it fit the definition of what economists might call a major recession.

The great depression in the US lasted from the early 1930s to 1940s....turned around when WWII forced the country's economy to become energized.....by contrast, dtla's economy was ailing from the late 1940s-1950s to not until not that long ago....generally over 35 yrs.

in the past, there wasn't enough of what's in this vid....it shows Hill st north of 5th that was a large parking lot near the NW corner of 5th & Hill until a few yrs ago....the park fifth apt bldg & shorter trademark apt bldgs are now there....that was a huge gap for decades.

this type of restaurant didn't exist in dtla in the past....the pandemic, however, has put a big crimp in businesses like this....it probably would have had more customers over a yr ago.

I just came back from a somewhat major restaurant in the san gabriel valley & the owner said business had been slow....a lot of nearby restaurants were even worse...they were totally closed.


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meanwhile, this is the guy from NYC who was talking about the shape of his city's dt....lower manhattan....just a few days ago....a topic recently covered by his town's major newspaper....


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[bhunsberger]

What’s with all the NYC comparisons? Who cares? They really have nothing to do with each other. DTLA isn’t even close to the scale of NYC. Also, I like Louis Rossman but he’s a very bitter guy. He only shows the worse of NYC. Most of his videos concentrate on negative aspects of the city and his career, which is fixing electronics. I understand he’s trying to make change and some of his content is cool but he’s very biased in showing the absolute worse. Not that there isn’t any truth to what he saying, just take it all with a grain of salt.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by bhunsberger

What’s with all the NYC comparisons? Who cares? They really have nothing to do with each other. DTLA isn’t even close to the scale of NYC. Also, I like Louis Rossman but he’s a very bitter guy. He only shows the worse of NYC. Most of his videos concentrate on negative aspects of the city and his career, which is fixing electronics. I understand he’s trying to make change and some of his content is cool but he’s very biased in showing the absolute worse. Not that there isn’t any truth to what he saying, just take it all with a grain of salt.

LA has the same youtubers people showing off the worst with homeless.

I think cities reddits are the most honest observations of their cities, because they don't care about boosterism to others.
You see a good mix of good and bad.

[CaliNative]

Originally Posted by bhunsberger

What’s with all the NYC comparisons? Who cares? They really have nothing to do with each other. DTLA isn’t even close to the scale of NYC. Also, I like Louis Rossman but he’s a very bitter guy. He only shows the worse of NYC. Most of his videos concentrate on negative aspects of the city and his career, which is fixing electronics. I understand he’s trying to make change and some of his content is cool but he’s very biased in showing the absolute worse. Not that there isn’t any truth to what he saying, just take it all with a grain of salt.

Some of the points he makes in the video are valid. There ARE lots of retail vacancies in NYC and many other cities including L.A. Of course the pandemic is a major cause, but many of the vacancies predate the pandemic. Landlords just charge too much rent to cover their big mortgages. As foot traffic slows due to people working remotely instead of offices in places like Manhattan but also L.A., S.F., Chicago etc., the shop owners can't make enough to cover the rents, and probably won't even when the pandemic ends. Rents need to come down to allow shop owners to make a profit. But if rents come down, building owners may not be able to make their mortgage payments and banks could foreclose. No easy solutions, although an end to the pandemic would help, restoring shopper traffic and allowing merchants to have a greater chance of making enough to cover their rent and other expenses, such as wages, which are also rising.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by CaliNative

Some of the points he makes in the video are valid. There ARE lots of retail vacancies in NYC and many other cities. Of course the pandemic is a major cause, but many of the vacancies predate the pandemic. Landlords just charge too much rent to cover their big mortgages, especially as foot traffic slows in places like Manhattan but also L.A., S.F., Chicago etc. The shop owners can't make enough to cover the rents, and probably won't even when the pandemic ends. Rents need to come to allow shop owners to make a profit. But if rents come down, building owners may not be able to make their mortgage payments and banks could forclose. No easy solutions, although an end to the pandemic would help.

For some reason, people holding downtown LA to a different standard.
"Retail vacancies aren't noticeable in NYC" What? The New York times just had a article about it. Nyc reddit constantly talks about it.
There's these youtube videos about it. The common observation it's a problem there, just like in downtown LA, or anywhere else.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by bhunsberger

I understand he’s trying to make change and some of his content is cool but he’s very biased in showing the absolute worse. Not that there isn’t any truth to what he saying, just take it all with a grain of salt.

You do realize your post has as much bias as you accuse the youtuber of having? sure, I'm biased too. everyone is. Plus, Louis has done videos of his walking around some of the most major parts of manhattan. So it's not like he's relying on articles, web sites or forums like SSP for his pov or to make a point. He's lives in NYC too, I don't. Not sure if you or anyone else in this thread has as close ties to that city as he does.

Also, in order to understand where dtla is, has been or where it may end up, it helps to know what other cities are like....such as other cities being more dependent on office space & office workers than dtla necessarily does....

The Downtown Office District Was Vulnerable. Even Before Covid.

In some downtown business districts, 70 percent to 80 percent of all real estate is dedicated to office space, according to an Upshot analysis with CoStar, a company that tracks real estate down to the individual building. That means there are few residents to support restaurants at night or to keep lunch counters open if office workers stay away, and few reasons for visitors to spend time or money there on the weekend.

there's a graph with that article that shows, when it comes to percentage of office space to retail, hotels & residential, dtla ranks comparatively low with most other cities in the US. Less surprising too since the business community starting leaving dtla over 60 yrs ago. exodus to the suburbs...or areas like century city....emptied out central LA faster than it did elsewhere. So some cities have both lived with the office highrise sword, & have to die by the office bldg sword.

One thing about that new york guy's vids of his city, the graffiti there seems even worse there than it is in dtla. LA is bad enough, so I didn't think it could be even worse in that town. also, the weather plays a difference between there & here....trees & plants are different.

The weather does play a big part in the vibe of a dtla compared with that of, as another example, london....this makes me think of more of what's caught on louis's vids of his nyc versus what the youtuber caught of the perch rooftop a few days ago.....


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^ that type of setting will be harder to run & maintain if its rains a lot more in a city, or if it's colder.....I notice some of those rooftops go for the palm, mediterranean tree look that's more natural to an LA than a london or nyc.

[dktshb]

NoMad Hotel in NY is permanently closed. I hope the LA NoMad, which has been closed for a while does not suffer the same fate. Also what about Bottega Louie? It was so busy I cannot think that it will not reopen. Last PK Market... is it ever going to happen? That stretch of 7th was so promising and now it is empty.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by dktshb

NoMad Hotel in NY is permanently closed.

jeez, domino blocks are falling all over america, all over the world....I'd hate to see their LA hotel close...the old giannini bank of america bldg was vacant for decades, only to be shined up & restored to a classic beauty. But if the owners are closing up their home base, I don't know how the LA branch will survive.

it's like a bad sci-fi movie out of hollywood...but one that keeps going on & on.

beyond the pandemic, I get a kick out of this guy doing a video walk in dtla about a month ago....his voice sounds like the louis rossmann guy, probably because I believe he's from NYC too.

again, the weather is a major difference between a dlta & certain other cities....if the climate in socal suddenly became identical to that of the midwest or east coast, a big part of its vibe would disappear....


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dtla has been traditionally one of the weaker urban centers in the US & world, so that may affect it in today's era of the pandemic....hopefully more pro than con.....but also the urban revivals occurring in other cities in the US & a few others throughout the world too.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by dktshb

NoMad Hotel in NY is permanently closed. I hope the LA NoMad, which has been closed for a while does not suffer the same fate. Also what about Bottega Louie? It was so busy I cannot think that it will not reopen. Last PK Market... is it ever going to happen? That stretch of 7th was so promising and now it is empty.

Hopefully nomad comes back. That would be horrible.

Bottega is reopening in October after the remodel is done

Pk market.. The agent said in a fb post a couple weeks back that it's moving forward. I guess they had a lawsuit. Really looking forward to that one

[craigs]

For what it's worth, I want downtown LA to be as healthy and vibrant as possible--but if I wanted to live in New York, I would have moved there instead of moving here. One of the best things about LA is it's decentralized nature--there is so much going on literally everywhere in the city and region.