The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[swimmer_spe]

Does anyone know i the other commuter lines in Montreal will ever either see what is happening with the REM, or a change to 2WAD like being planned with GO?

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

As somebody who lives in the Old City boundaries this guy seems out of touch with the reality of Streetcars vs Buses. I bet he drives. And as a cyclist in the city, street car routes are way safer to navigate vs sharing the road with buses. oi can tell from just looking at him sharing the roads with traffic is never an issue. The majority of people who bitch about streetcars are those who never use them but drive through the city. Street cars aren't slow it's the all of the people driving alone in their vehicles that cause traffic slow downs. the King Street Car is the fasrtest way across the downtown core now, as fast as cycling, and faster then any car or bus.

Another thing the streetcars have over busses is traffic calming. A vehicle that frequently bring all traffic on half the street to a halt is a great way to keep speeds down and lessen reckless behavior.

It's one thing to have the most efficient system, it's another thing to have a system that's better for people.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

For new riders yes, spend a few weeks getting used to them and they just become a simple obstacle that you barely even notice. Now take bus a bus route where the buses randomly pull over forcing cyclists to pass them, never knowing for sure if the bus will pull back out or see them. Your also forced out into a live traffic lane to do this.

I'd love to see a survey of Toronto cyclists that live or travel through the core each day to see if they prefer sharing the roads with busses or streetcars. I'd be very surprised to see bus routes preferred.

I do recall a study a few years back that showed streetcars were involved in almost half of all pedestrian and cyclists deaths each year, a disproportionately high number, but one of the main factors end up being they run in areas with a very high number cyclists and pedestrians, unlike the buroughs that are mainly bus routes but void of almost any cyclists sharing the road. Still the number of people killed by TTC vehicles each year is only a tiny fraction of the number killed by motorists.

As long as one stays undestracted and alert, I still stand by sharing a road with a street car to be a much more predictable and safe choice to cross the cities core then a bus route.

On a side note, before the pandemic when I was cycling each day form my house in Riverside on Dundas across town to Spadina and Richmond I would Use King as my route. No bike lanes but also almost no cars and just streetcars. It was safe then using the Richmond, Dundas, or Adelaide bike lanes as during rush hour people use the bike lanes as pick up and drop off lanes and I never once saw any sort of enforcement. I only ever saw near collisions.

"The study, published last week in the journal BMC Public Health, looked at 276 bike crashes that happened in Toronto's downtown core between May 2008 and November 2009 and were serious enough to require hospitalization. Researchers found that 87 of those spills happened after the cyclists' tires either became caught in the tracks, or skidded across them."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/streetcar-tracks-cyclists-1.3696234

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Does anyone know i the other commuter lines in Montreal will ever either see what is happening with the REM, or a change to 2WAD like being planned with GO?

The Deux-Montagnes Line was bought by the AMT (now EXO) in 2014 for $92M. That is why the REM was made possible. CN was the previous owner. You can't operate a REM line unless you have the complete right of way.

I think that all the extensions of the REM outside the island of Montreal will follow the route of the major highways. The future line in Laval will use the central portion of the A-15. Don't forget, all the REM stations are based for future TODs. You won't see a REM station in the middle of a low density residential neighborhood.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

The Deux-Montagnes Line was bought by the AMT (now EXO) in 2014 for $92M. That is why the REM was made possible. CN was the previous owner. You can't operate a REM line unless you have the complete right of way.

I think that all the extensions of the REM outside the island of Montreal will follow the route of the major highways. The future line in Laval will use the central portion of the A-15. Don't forget, all the REM stations are based for future TODs. You won't see a REM station in the middle of a low density residential neighborhood.

I didn't mean the REM. I meant that the existing EXO runs more often.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I didn't mean the REM. I meant that the existing EXO runs more often.

I don't think the EXO lines will see a significant change in the coming years. The ARTM will probably favor the REM technology and stop all major spending in commuter rail transit. EXO lines are not optimal as they are dependant of freight trains schedule.

You also probably won't see any REM line venture in the 2nd ring (couronne) of suburbs. Laval and Longueuil will be the clear winner as they are part of the core of the CMA. Montréal - Laval -Longueuil , the 3 cities are interconnected with the Métro system , the bus network and now the REM network. They combine for a little more than 3M people with a density of about 3,500/km². That's where the future of transit will be in Greater Montréal.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

I don't think the EXO lines will see a significant change in the coming years. The ARTM will probably favor the REM technology and stop all major spending in commuter rail transit. EXO lines are not optimal as they are dependant of freight trains schedule.

You also probably won't see any REM line venture in the 2nd ring (couronne) of suburbs. Laval and Longueuil will be the clear winner as they are part of the core of the CMA. Montréal - Laval -Longueuil , the 3 cities are interconnected with the Métro system , the bus network and now the REM network. They combine for a little more than 3M people with a density of about 3,500/km². That's where the future of transit will be in Greater Montréal.

Sounds like what you are saying is that existing EXO service will not change, but some of the cities that surround the Island will see a much needed boost in transit. That is good, but we don't want a WCE situation where nothing is added or improved for decades, in which it becomes neglected.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Sounds like what you are saying is that existing EXO service will not change, but some of the cities that surround the Island will see a much needed boost in transit. That is good, but we don't want a WCE situation where nothing is added or improved for decades, in which it becomes neglected.

I think we'll see a ''taxe kilométrique'' in a not so distant future to compensate for the loss of revenue generated by ICE cars. With electric cars the government will need a new tax to generate more revenues. That alone will discourage people to move far away from the urban core. People who live in Laval or in Longueuil will benefit the most.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

I think we'll see a ''taxe kilométrique'' in a not so distant future to compensate for the loss of revenue generated by ICE cars. With electric cars the government will need a new tax to generate more revenues. That alone will discourage people to move far away from the urban core. People who live in Laval or in Longueuil will benefit the most.

If anywhere were to put in a tax for electric cars, Quebec would be it.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

If anywhere were to put in a tax for electric cars, Quebec would be it.

The kilometer tax would be for all cars and trucks in the province, not just on electric vehicle.

The flexible nature [of the kilometer tax] allows dynamic pricing according to the areas traveled, the type of vehicle, the time of day, the intensity of congestion and the number of passengers.

People who live in the 2nd and 3rd ring of suburbs that travel to the urban core to work will be the most penalized. With a lack of transit investment in the farthest suburbs, eventually the population will start to come back towards the urban core rather than continuing urban sprawl.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

The kilometer tax would be for all cars and trucks in the province, not just on electric vehicle.

The flexible nature [of the kilometer tax] allows dynamic pricing according to the areas traveled, the type of vehicle, the time of day, the intensity of congestion and the number of passengers.

People who live in the 2nd and 3rd ring of suburbs that travel to the urban core to work will be the most penalized. With a lack of transit investment in the farthest suburbs, eventually the population will start to come back towards the urban core rather than continuing urban sprawl.

What if you drive lots, but not for work and not into the city?

[Floppa]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

The kilometer tax would be for all cars and trucks in the province, not just on electric vehicle.

The flexible nature [of the kilometer tax] allows dynamic pricing according to the areas traveled, the type of vehicle, the time of day, the intensity of congestion and the number of passengers.

People who live in the 2nd and 3rd ring of suburbs that travel to the urban core to work will be the most penalized. With a lack of transit investment in the farthest suburbs, eventually the population will start to come back towards the urban core rather than continuing urban sprawl.

I think governments need to wait and see how WFH works out before committing to that kind of policy.

[ScreamingViking]

Hamilton city council just voted 11-3 to sign a memorandum of understanding with Metrolinx and the province regarding LRT. It was a committee vote, and needs to be ratified next week in a council meeting (though the committee includes all council members, so that's really just a formality). This one is binding, unlike the previous agreement that got torn up when the Ford government trashed the project in 2019.

The mayor believes construction will begin early-to-mid next year.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/lrt-1.6167672

[SteelTown]

yay! Bring on the construction for the B-Line!

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

yay! Bring on the construction for the B-Line!

It's a milestone moment. And a LONG time coming.

Opposition is still out there, but if this gets fully launched within a year with construction under way, it will be shut-up time.

[accord1999]

How good are the plans for the Hamilton LRT? Calgary launched the Green Line in late 2015 and real construction still hasn't started yet.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by accord1999

How good are the plans for the Hamilton LRT? Calgary launched the Green Line in late 2015 and real construction still hasn't started yet.

There's been a plan for years now. Originally this was supposed to be up and running for the 2015 Pan Am games!

The Ford government killed this during the bidding process. So previous bidders should just be able to dust off their paperwork to update and re-submit.

The money is much more plentiful now, which scares me a bit (we still haven't seen details about how that $3.4 billion was estimated; originally this was an up-to-$1-billion capital cost project). But things should move relatively smoothly.

The biggest worry is a change in city leadership that derails everything. A former mayor who became a federal Liberal backbencher has always been dead set against this, and he's not running federally Sep 20 and may consider another shot at the mayor's chair in fall 2022. But if this can get signed and sealed with delivery beginning before that, the worry will be naught.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by accord1999

How good are the plans for the Hamilton LRT? Calgary launched the Green Line in late 2015 and real construction still hasn't started yet.

The new Samuel de Champlain bridge construction started in 2015 operating since 2019, the REM in 2018, will be completed in 2024.

The new Turcot interchange construction started in 2013 completed in 2020.

What are you waiting for ? the more you wait the more it's gonna cost.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

What are you waiting for ? the more you wait the more it's gonna cost.

The initial Green Line plans badly underestimated the cost of construction, the two legs stretching North and SE from the central core were originally price-tagged at around $50M/km but ended up going over $200M/km and $150M/km respectively, resulting in the Green Line being cut from 40km to 20km in 2017. Then they spent the next two years preparing for a deep and long TBM tunnel through downtown and under the Bow River, but the geology made it too challenging, forcing them to spend the next year designing a new route using shallower tunnels and a bridge across the river (which they may still not be able to afford).

The initial goal in 2015 was to begin construction in 2018, and finish the whole 40km line and opened by 2024 so the Green Line has been a real nightmare.

[superelevation]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

As somebody who lives in the Old City boundaries this guy seems out of touch with the reality of Streetcars vs Buses. I bet he drives. And as a cyclist in the city, street car routes are way safer to navigate vs sharing the road with buses. oi can tell from just looking at him sharing the roads with traffic is never an issue. The majority of people who bitch about streetcars are those who never use them but drive through the city. Street cars aren't slow it's the all of the people driving alone in their vehicles that cause traffic slow downs. the King Street Car is the fasrtest way across the downtown core now, as fast as cycling, and faster then any car or bus.

I live in Toronto, and um, yeah I don't own a car and I don't drive . . .