The US Census Bureau thread

[ChiSoxRox]

Originally Posted by MPLS_Const_Watch

Thank you, very helpful! Your census stats prowess is unmatched!

Thanks! I like finding new ways to compare these islands of density, and overall Minneapolis is well on its way to be the best contender for the #2 urban core in the Midwest. Milwaukee is shrinking, Madison is too small...

Originally Posted by craigs

Thanks for all your hard work. Do you think you might eventually get around to doing weighted density for CSAs?

The big two California CSAs, with a surprising result:

Los Angeles CSA: 10,049 ppsm
Los Angeles MSA: 12,213
Oxnard MSA: 5,693
Riverside MSA: 4,637

San Jose-San Francisco CSA: 9,744 ppsm
Merced MSA: 3,030
Modesto MSA: 4,860
Napa MSA: 4,209
San Francisco MSA: 13,268
San Jose MSA: 9,076
Santa Cruz MSA: 4,782
Santa Rosa MSA: 3,498
Stockton MSA: 5,463
Vallejo MSA: 4,646

The Bay Area CSA includes enough of the Central Valley that its weighted density gets pulled below LA + IE + Ventura!

Meanwhile, New York's monstrous number barely notices the CSA:

New York CSA: 29,443 ppsm
Bridgeport MSA: 5,620
East Stroudsburg MSA: 822
Kingston MSA: 1,005
New Haven MSA: 4,208
New York MSA: 33,788
Poughkeepsie MSA: 2,809
Torrington muSA: 891
Trenton MSA: 6,169

Any other CSAs of interest to crunch?

[RST500]

Originally Posted by RST500

https://laccrc2021.org/wp-content/up...s-and-Maps.pdf

This site for LA's census data does not have a category to rank White growth.

The LA Times map of data just put Whites into the category of other without even a way to check the White growth.

https://laccrc2021.org/wp-content/up...s-and-Maps.pdf

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by yuriandrade

While I was adding up Downtowns for my thread, Allentown caught my attention: their inner city is very very dense. I've never expected to find that in a such smaller MSA.

When I come up back home, I'll bring the exact figures, but over a very big area (15 km2), they have an almost 5,000 inh/km2 (13,000 inh/sqm) density. I didn't expect that at all. Madison is always mentioned, but I don't remember to read anything about Allentown.

On GSV, it has a (nice) Latin American city urban configuration.

Here the actual numbers. It's even higher than a mentioned:

------------------- Pop 2020 ---- Area ---- Density (inh/km²)

Allentown --------- 125,845 ----- 45.5 km² ---- 2,767.6

Inner City ---------- 72,479 ----- 13.5 km² ---- 5,358.1

A density for 13,900 ppsm.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by ChiSoxRox

Thanks! I like finding new ways to compare these islands of density, and overall Minneapolis is well on its way to be the best contender for the #2 urban core in the Midwest. Milwaukee is shrinking, Madison is too small...



The big two California CSAs, with a surprising result:

Los Angeles CSA: 10,049 ppsm
Los Angeles MSA: 12,213
Oxnard MSA: 5,693
Riverside MSA: 4,637

San Jose-San Francisco CSA: 9,744 ppsm
Merced MSA: 3,030
Modesto MSA: 4,860
Napa MSA: 4,209
San Francisco MSA: 13,268
San Jose MSA: 9,076
Santa Cruz MSA: 4,782
Santa Rosa MSA: 3,498
Stockton MSA: 5,463
Vallejo MSA: 4,646

The Bay Area CSA includes enough of the Central Valley that its weighted density gets pulled below LA + IE + Ventura!

Meanwhile, New York's monstrous number barely notices the CSA:

New York CSA: 29,443 ppsm
Bridgeport MSA: 5,620
East Stroudsburg MSA: 822
Kingston MSA: 1,005
New Haven MSA: 4,208
New York MSA: 33,788
Poughkeepsie MSA: 2,809
Torrington muSA: 891
Trenton MSA: 6,169

Any other CSAs of interest to crunch?

Raleigh
Salt Lake City
Miami
D.C.-Baltimore
Seattle
Denver
Cleveland
Boston-Providence
Chicago
Cincinnati+Dayton (somehow not actually in the CSA)

[ChiSoxRox]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Raleigh
Salt Lake City
Miami
D.C.-Baltimore
Seattle
Denver
Cleveland
Boston-Providence
Chicago
Cincinnati+Dayton (somehow not actually in the CSA)

This should be exhaustive for CSAs and stand-alone MSAs above 5k ppsm.

New York CSA: 29,443 ppsm
New York MSA: 33,788
Trenton MSA: 6,169
Bridgeport MSA: 5,620
New Haven MSA: 4,208
Poughkeepsie MSA: 2,809
Kingston MSA: 1,005
Torrington muSA: 891
East Stroudsburg MSA: 822

Honolulu MSA: 12,582

Los Angeles CSA: 10,049
Los Angeles MSA: 12,213
Oxnard MSA: 5,693
Riverside MSA: 4,637

San Jose-San Francisco CSA: 9,744
San Francisco MSA: 13,268
San Jose MSA: 9,076
Stockton MSA: 5,463
Santa Cruz MSA: 4,782
Modesto MSA: 4,860
Vallejo MSA: 4,646
Napa MSA: 4,209
Santa Rosa MSA: 3,498
Merced MSA: 3,030

Chicago CSA: 8,719
Chicago MSA: 9,012
Kankakee MSA: 1,330
Michigan City MSA: 1,273
Ottawa muSA: 705

Miami CSA: 7,811
Miami MSA: 8,489
Port St. Lucie MSA: 2,203
Sebastian MSA: 1,542
Key West muSA: 2,699

Philadelphia CSA: 7,524
Philadelphia MSA: 8,259
Reading MSA: 5,299
Atlantic City MSA: 3,181
Vineland MSA: 3,123
Ocean City, NJ MSA: 1,252
Dover, DE MSA: 1,112

San Diego MSA: 7,382

Las Vegas CSA: 6,882
Las Vegas MSA: 7,032
Pahrump muSA: 322

Boston CSA: 6,838
Boston MSA: 8,988
Providence MSA: 5,205
Manchester MSA: 3,154
Worcester MSA: 3,151
Barnstable MSA: 910
Concord, NH muSA: 625
Laconia muSA: 438

Salinas MSA: 6,803

Santa Barbara MSA: 6,631

Washington-Baltimore CSA: 6,226
Washington MSA: 7,296
Baltimore MSA: 5,145
Winchester MSA: 1,443
Hagerstown MSA: 1,397
Chambersburg MSA: 1,002
Easton muSA: 748
California MSA: 612

Champaign, IL MSA: 5,421

Seattle CSA: 5,300
Seattle MSA: 6,146
Bremerton MSA: 2,101
Olympia MSA: 2,002
Mount Vernon MSA: 1,712
Oak Harbor muSA: 1,069
Centralia muSA: 505
Shelton muSA: 436

Denver CSA: 5,026
Denver MSA: 5,418
Boulder MSA: 4,275
Greeley MSA: 2,248

Selected lower CSAs:

Phoenix CSA: 4,758
Phoenix MSA 4,808
Payson muSA 258

Sacramento CSA: 4,661
Sacramento MSA: 5,003
Yuba City MSA: 2,435
Truckee muSA: 590

Portland, OR CSA: 4,541
Portland MSA: 5,059
Salem MSA: 3,339
Corvallis MSA: 2937
Longview, WA MSA: 2064
Albany, OR MSA: 1785

Milwaukee CSA: 4,243
Milwaukee MSA: 5,024
Racine MSA: 2,843
Beaver Dam muSA: 1,045
Watertown muSA: 761
Whitewater muSA: 750

Salt Lake City CSA: 4,222
SLC MSA: 5,071
Provo MSA: 4,201
Ogden MSA: 3,112
Heber muSA: 570

Madison CSA: 3,993
Madison MSA: 4,833.8
Janesville MSA: 1,877.0
Baraboo muSA: 555.8

Detroit CSA: 3,583
Detroit MSA: 3,907
Ann Arbor MSA: 3,804
Flint MSA: 1,545
Monroe MSA: 973
Adrian muSA 863

Cleveland CSA: 2,873
Cleveland MSA: 3,677
Akron MSA: 2,347
Canton MSA: 1,881
Sandusky muSA: 1,723
Ashtabula muSA: 673
Wooster muSA: 669
New Philadelphia muSA: 643
Norwalk, OH muSA: 444

Cincinnati CSA: 2,601
Cincinnati MSA: 2,658
Wilmington, OH muSA: 481
Maysville, KY muSA: 237

Raleigh CSA: 2,057
Raleigh MSA: 2,167
Durham MSA: 1,906
Henderson muSA: 716

Dayton CSA, OH: 2,040
Dayton MSA: 2,327
Springfield MSA: 1,827
Sidney muSA: 942
Greenville muSA: 386
Urbana muSA: 340

Chicago + Milwaukee SuperCSA: 7,955

Cincinnati + Dayton SuperCSA: 2,421

Lastly another angle on "NYC is ridiculous." Let's combine the New York and Philadelphia CSAs, along with the Allentown MSA which would be 80% surrounded. This New York-Philadelphia SuperCSA would have a population of 31,824,238 and include the entire state of New Jersey, as well as stretching from New Haven, CT to the corner of Maryland.

New York + Philadelphia + Allentown SuperCSA: 23,674 ppsm

New York City's weighted population density can swallow metro Philadelphia and still be well above the 20k mark.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by ChiSoxRox

Chicago CSA: 8,719
Chicago MSA: 9,012
Kankakee MSA: 1,330
Michigan City MSA: 1,273
Ottawa muSA: 705

Wait, the Ottawa micropolitan area is now officially part of Chicago's CSA?

oy vey.....

the Ottawa micro is some 2,200 square miles of 100% straight-up central Illinois corn belt. The CB's county mash-up game always finds new ways to get even more absurd and stupid.

I mean, if we're just gonna make up meaninglessly large absurdities, then let's just mashup all of Illinois, Indiana, Wisconsin and Iowa and call it "the Chicago metropolitan area". Fuck it, throw in the UP too, why not?

[ChiSoxRox]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Wait, the Ottawa micropolitan area is now officially part of Chicago's CSA?

oy vey.....

the Ottawa micro is some 2,200 square miles of 100% straight-up central Illinois corn belt. The CB's county mash-up game always finds new ways to get even more absurd and stupid.

I mean, if we're just gonna make up meaninglessly large absurdities, then let's just mashup all of Illinois, Indiana, Wisconsin and Iowa and call it "the Chicago metropolitan area". Fuck it, the UP too, why not?

Wait until you see how ridiculous a map looks.

Perhaps my favorite is Seattle and Portland CSAs forming two giant Lego blocks hooked together, or the Twin Cities CSA being a blob consuming Minnesota.

To be frank, aside from a handful of interesting cases (the SF/LA race, how much NYC's number changes, DC/Baltimore) CSAs are a combination of more tedious to calculate (accumulating MSA definitions, nesting MSA and muSA calculations), and less interesting IMO due to diluting the urban cores.

[Yuri]

I've always been annoyed by the weird shape of Los Angeles city proper and curious about how many people there were living in the urbanized area of LA County.

After days of adding up hundreds of cities and unincorporated areas one by one, here:



----------------------------- 2020 ------- 2010 ------- 2000 ------- 1990 ------------ Growth -------------- Density

LOS ANGELES ----------- 9,192,071 --- 9,049,010 --- 8,895,201 --- 8,376,089 ----- 1.6% ---- 1.7% ---- 6.2% ---- 3,221 km² --- 2,853.8 inh./km²

[ChiSoxRox]

I've calculated the weighted population densities for all 384 MSAs.

Here is the full 4k+ ppsm list:

1. New York, NY…...33,787.5 ppsm
2. San Francisco, CA…...13,267.8
3. Honolulu, HI…...12,581.9
4. Los Angeles, CA…...12,212.7
5. San Jose, CA…...9,075.9
6. Chicago, IL…...9,011.9
7. Boston, MA…...8,987.9
8. Miami, FL…...8,489.2
9. Philadelphia, PA…...8,258.5
10. San Diego, CA…...7,381.9
11. Washington, DC…...7,296.1
12. Las Vegas, NV…...7,031.7
13. Salinas, CA…...6,803.4
14. Santa Barbara, CA…...6,631.3
15. Trenton, NJ…...6,169.4
16. Seattle, WA…...6,146.3
17. Oxnard, CA…...5,693.2
18. Bridgeport, CT…...5,620.4
19. Stockton, CA…...5,462.7
20. Champaign, IL…...5,421.3
21. Denver, CO…...5,418.0
22. Reading, PA…...5,299.5
23. Providence, RI…...5,204.6
24. Baltimore, MD…...5,144.7
25. Salt Lake City, UT…...5,070.9
26. Portland, OR…...5,058.8
27. Milwaukee, WI…...5,023.7
28. Sacramento, CA…...5,002.7
29. Laredo, TX…...4,915.0
30. Modesto, CA…...4,860.4
31. Madison, WI…...4,833.8
32. Phoenix, AZ…...4,807.7
33. Santa Cruz, CA…...4,782.3
34. Vallejo, CA…...4,646.1
35. Riverside, CA…...4,636.9
36. Houston, TX…...4,606.4
37. New Orleans, LA…...4,577.0
38. Fresno, CA…...4,518.4
39. Bakersfield, CA…...4,438.8
40. State College, PA…...4,367.6
41. Buffalo, NY…...4,348.8
42. Dallas, TX…...4,274.7
43. Boulder, CO…...4,274.5
44. Napa, CA…...4,209.1
45. New Haven, CT…...4,208.3
46. Reno, NV…...4,202.9
47. Provo, UT…...4,201.0
48. Allentown, PA…...4,087.5

Dead last in weighted density? Beckley, WV: 474.5 ppsm

The Beckley MSA has a perfect storm of factors pulling down its WPD: a tiny, shrinking urban core, extensive rural areas in the MSA with many decayed former coal towns, and rugged topology meaning census tracts literally include mountain sides and steep valleys.

[ChiSoxRox]

Fun WPD trivia: Staten Island has a higher WPD (15,079.8) than either Cook County, IL (13,997.1) or LA County (13,301.0)!

Staten Island is no density slouch on its own. It's just that it's quite dense, while the other four boroughs are so far ahead in density, they've gone to plaid.

[skysoar]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Wait, the Ottawa micropolitan area is now officially part of Chicago's CSA?

oy vey.....

the Ottawa micro is some 2,200 square miles of 100% straight-up central Illinois corn belt. The CB's county mash-up game always finds new ways to get even more absurd and stupid.

I mean, if we're just gonna make up meaninglessly large absurdities, then let's just mashup all of Illinois, Indiana, Wisconsin and Iowa and call it "the Chicago metropolitan area". Fuck it, throw in the UP too, why not?

I agree, thats why i have a serious problem seeing the value of CMSA S. Not just Chicago, but most of these CSA designations are just to ambiguous. I believe also CSA s were more relevant when they encompassed only the super population regions of NY-NJ, L.A-,Chicago Ill/Wisc./Ind. suburbs, and S.F Bay area. I think at that time a metro had to have a minimum 0f 5 million population, now i believe the standard is just one million.

[Steely Dan]

i present to the forum Neponset, Illlinois:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bu...!4d-89.4742177

a tiny little fly-speck farm town set adrift in the unceasing cornfields of central illinois ~120 miles WSW of Chicago.

and now, for some stupid reason, it's officially a part of Chicago's CSA!?!?!

[Crawford]

It doesn't really do anything for the population or economic figures, so why sweat it? Largely irrelevant.

Chicago is actually one of the few major U.S. cities where the UA, MSA and CSA are pretty close, and there isn't tremendous disagreement re. the relative size of "Chicago".

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Crawford

It doesn't really do anything for the population or economic figures, so why sweat it?

I just enjoy pointing out how stupid the CB's MSA/CSA county mash-up game is.

I mean, 120 miles?????

Get the fuck outta here.

[ChiSoxRox]

One more data dump.

Top counties by weighted density

1. Manhattan, NY…...108,042.0
2. Bronx, NY…...72,874.9
3. Brooklyn, NY…...60,275.6
4. Queens, NY…...46,619.3
5. Hudson,NJ…...37,350.1
6. San Francisco, CA…...33,572.5
7. Suffolk, MA…...25,972.9
8. Philadelphia, PA…...21,935.1
9. Washington city, DC…...20,642.9
10. Arlington, VA…...19,960.8
11. Essex, NJ…...16,267.5
12. Alexandria city, VA…...15,708.3
13. Staten Island, NY…...15,079.8
14. Cook, IL…...13,997.1
15. Passaic, NJ…...13,982.7
16. Los Angeles, CA…...13,301.0
17. Honolulu, HI…...12,581.9
18. Miami-Dade, FL…...11,873.5
19. Baltimore city, MD…...11,333.0
20. Alameda, CA…...11,048.8
21. Union, NJ…...10,874.6
22. Westchester, NY…...10,769.7
23. San Mateo, CA…...9,488.1
24. Santa Clara, CA…...9,252.3
25. Denver, CO…...8,889.4
26. Orange, CA…...8,613.8
27. Bergen, NJ…...8,571.1
28. Nassau, NY…...8,217.8
29. King, WA…...7,971.2
30. Multnomah, OR…...7,903.5
31. Middlesex, MA…...7,886.5
32. Providence, RI…...7,701.7
33. Milwaukee, WI…...7,483.4
34. Falls Church city, VA…...7,439.2
35. San Diego, CA…...7,381.9
36. Orleans, LA…...7,189.8
37. Clark, NV…...7,031.7
38. St. Louis city, MO…...6,834.8
39. Essex, MA…...6,815.2
40. Broward, FL…...6,812.8

New Orleans was a pleasant surprise!

[Gordo]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i present to the forum Neponset, Illlinois:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bu...!4d-89.4742177

a tiny little fly-speck farm town set adrift in the unceasing cornfields of central illinois ~120 miles WSW of Chicago.

and now, for some stupid reason, it's officially a part of Chicago's CSA!?!?!

Looks like nothing but super commuter housing to me...

[Shawn]

Originally Posted by ChiSoxRox

One more data dump.

Top counties by weighted density
....
New Orleans was a pleasant surprise!

I knew Staten Island was less dense than areas of Hudson County, but I didn't realize just how big the disparity is when you only look at land people actually live on. Hudson County really is NYC's 6th borough.

[subterranean]

Originally Posted by ChiSoxRox

I've calculated the weighted population densities for all 384 MSAs.

Here is the full 4k+ ppsm list:

1. New York, NY…...33,787.5 ppsm
2. San Francisco, CA…...13,267.8
3. Honolulu, HI…...12,581.9
4. Los Angeles, CA…...12,212.7
5. San Jose, CA…...9,075.9
6. Chicago, IL…...9,011.9
7. Boston, MA…...8,987.9
8. Miami, FL…...8,489.2
9. Philadelphia, PA…...8,258.5
10. San Diego, CA…...7,381.9
11. Washington, DC…...7,296.1
12. Las Vegas, NV…...7,031.7
13. Salinas, CA…...6,803.4
14. Santa Barbara, CA…...6,631.3
15. Trenton, NJ…...6,169.4
16. Seattle, WA…...6,146.3
17. Oxnard, CA…...5,693.2
18. Bridgeport, CT…...5,620.4
19. Stockton, CA…...5,462.7
20. Champaign, IL…...5,421.3
21. Denver, CO…...5,418.0
22. Reading, PA…...5,299.5
23. Providence, RI…...5,204.6
24. Baltimore, MD…...5,144.7
25. Salt Lake City, UT…...5,070.9
26. Portland, OR…...5,058.8
27. Milwaukee, WI…...5,023.7
28. Sacramento, CA…...5,002.7
29. Laredo, TX…...4,915.0
30. Modesto, CA…...4,860.4
31. Madison, WI…...4,833.8
32. Phoenix, AZ…...4,807.7
33. Santa Cruz, CA…...4,782.3
34. Vallejo, CA…...4,646.1
35. Riverside, CA…...4,636.9
36. Houston, TX…...4,606.4
37. New Orleans, LA…...4,577.0
38. Fresno, CA…...4,518.4
39. Bakersfield, CA…...4,438.8
40. State College, PA…...4,367.6
41. Buffalo, NY…...4,348.8
42. Dallas, TX…...4,274.7
43. Boulder, CO…...4,274.5
44. Napa, CA…...4,209.1
45. New Haven, CT…...4,208.3
46. Reno, NV…...4,202.9
47. Provo, UT…...4,201.0
48. Allentown, PA…...4,087.5

Dead last in weighted density? Beckley, WV: 474.5 ppsm

The Beckley MSA has a perfect storm of factors pulling down its WPD: a tiny, shrinking urban core, extensive rural areas in the MSA with many decayed former coal towns, and rugged topology meaning census tracts literally include mountain sides and steep valleys.

Good to see that all the hubbub about the Portland UGB does essentially nothing for density. It even surprises me, a planner in the region, seeing the tiny lots they’re building houses on, decent tensor for a city its size, etc. Maybe the new middle housing rules will eventually help us densify.

[Omaharocks]

^ While Portland is still not very dense, it's been moving up the rankings, not down, and has been gaining density at a faster rate than most. It used to be considerably less dense than Milwaukee.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Shawn

I knew Staten Island was less dense than areas of Hudson County, but I didn't realize just how big the disparity is when you only look at land people actually live on. Hudson County really is NYC's 6th borough.

Actually, going by those numbers, Hudson has rights to being NYC's 5th borough, and Staten island should be demoted to 6th


To its credit, cook county is the first one on that list that includes a GIGANTIC amount of suburbia along with the central city. The others above it are all "city counties" (or subsets thereof in the case of NYC) or pretty damn small, relatively speaking (Arlington, Essex, etc.)