[Burnaby] The Amazing Brentwood | 15 Towers | 186m | 56 flrs | U/C & Proposed

[Vin]

Originally Posted by ranvancan

I really think this discussion forum for The Amazing Brentwood should be retitled to "Store me here, Store me there, just don't Store me anywhere" Whenever a new post comes to this site, I look, only to read something about this store, that store.......... Sorry, boring AF.

Not supposed to discuss about stores in a forum about the newest mall in the Lower Mainland?

Sure, you can start a new interesting topic such as how deep the foundations go for the towers. No one is stopping you.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Yeah, it looks very ghetto. But then again these are not luxury towers but massive vertical housing. Quantity over quality.

To the point about Brentwood mall feeling upscale, I think that only applies to the brand new space. The old part of the mall feels like something in Abbotsford and will continue to do so for years to come.

It almost sounds like you're saying it looks like a......um....'dump'...or something.
Careful there.
You might rankle a few nerves and egos around here.
Them's fighting words.

But in all seriousness, you're correct in noting that in reality, Brentwood is really still a work in progress.
It's not going to be 'complete' (and for that matter, upscale or "high-end") until the old mall is completely refurbished.

The new retail plaza indeed looks great and seems like it will be a success, but it's only part of the story.
We have to wait at least until towers 4,5 and 6 get built out as well as the old mall getting completely re-done before we can start passing fair assessments as to where it stands in comparison to other malls or developments in the region.

It's promising, but probably best not to get ahead of ourselves here.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by rofina

Were arguing about nothing. All this is subjective. If you want to debate stats, I conceded twice that Metrotown will be BC king for a long time.

Still doesn't negate the reality that 9/10 consumers will feel exactly the same as myself; certain properties feel high end. Its not a coincidence, its by design.

I too love it when people back up their bold claims of ....(**checks notes**)....90% (of) or 9 out of 10 consumers feeling the same as one's self,.... with credible sources, citations, surveys and the like.

As opposed to those who pull big BOLD numbers out of their 'Opinion' holes, and expect you to accept them as fact, or those who don't know that,.... "9 out of 10 consumers based on a recent survey by {insert credible consumer/retail research group here} feel that...",....is not the same as " 9 out of 10 consumers (a.k.a. people that I personally know) feel that..."

The first one is actually a credible claim (depending on the sources of that number), whereas the second one is what's known as (an) "anecdotal" opinion at best, and therefore, for all intents and purposes,........pointless.

But why am I getting ahead of myself?
I'm sure you'll provide those citations and sources posthaste and lay to waste any doubters here.

I can't wait!

Originally Posted by rofina

Park Royal feels high end. Brentwood feels high end.

JJBean feels high end. Blenz does not.
Aritzia feels high end. H&M does not.

So many 'feelings' in there.
You'd think this was a séance or something.


If only there was some way we could measure them or something.
Also,..."feels high end",...to whom....exactly?

Do you really believe that anyone who would qualify in most people's estimation as high-end or upper class is going to do their shopping in Brentwood?
Does it look "high-end" to them? Or just to the ones that think it is (because that's their poor man's estimation of "high end")?

This is what happens when you start bringing 'feelings' into all this.

Someone from actual Brentwood (the one in Los Angeles) might just drop in and offer you a cold splash of reality and inform you that your 'Brentwood' is actually an actual 'dump'.

Originally Posted by rofina

You can try and whip out all the stats in the world, but you'll nearly always have a consensus on what property or retailer feels high end.

It's weird almost to the point of comedy and humor that in the same sentence (and probably breath) that you dismiss "stats" as a tool of proving one's argument and claim, you then almost without skipping a beat go on to throw in a big word like "consensus" as if you doing some sort of high-brow comedy bit to show what an utter lack of self-awareness looks like.

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Sure '9 out of 10' people (....that I know) can be described as a 'consensus', but that's not really a consensus writ large.

For that other one, you would need that thing you seem to hate so much....

....ah yes...

Stats.

Originally Posted by rofina

People spend inordinate amount of time designing things to come off as luxury. This isn't an accident, its unquantifiable measure that is often aimed at, and sometimes missed.

The "feelings" a space evokes is very much a feature that's targeted and designed around. This is not a conspiracy or an innovative idea for that matter.

Metrotown is a utilitarian workhorse of a mall. It will continue to be a middle market retail success long as the property is maintained.

Sure thing, buddy.
Whatever your 'consensus' and your....'9 out of 10 correspondents and consumers'.... say it is.

Sure.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

I too love it when people back up their bold claims of ....(**checks notes**)....90% (of) or 9 out of 10 consumers feeling the same as one's self,.... with credible sources, citations, surveys and the like.

As opposed to those who pull big BOLD numbers out of their 'Opinion' holes, and expect you to accept them as fact, or those who don't know that,.... "9 out of 10 consumers based on a recent survey by {insert credible consumer/retail research group here} feel that...",....is not the same as " 9 out of 10 consumers (a.k.a. people that I personally know) feel that..."

The first one is actually a credible claim (depending on the sources of that number), whereas the second one is what's known as (an) "anecdotal" opinion at best, and therefore, for all intents and purposes,........pointless.

But why am I getting ahead of myself?
I'm sure you'll provide those citations and sources posthaste and lay to waste any doubters here.

I can't wait!

You realize you're arguing with yourself? Why?

Ill write it in larger format since it appears you missed it before;

If you want to debate stats, I conceded twice that Metrotown will be BC king for a long time.

That's 3 times now. But go ahead - lets do this again.

So many 'feelings' in there.
You'd think this was a séance or something.

If only there was some way we could measure them or something.
Also,..."feels high end",...to whom....exactly?

Do you really believe that anyone who would qualify in most people's estimation as high-end or upper class is going to do their shopping in Brentwood?
Does it look "high-end" to them? Or just to the ones that think it is (because that's their poor man's estimation of "high end")?

This is what happens when you start bringing 'feelings' into all this.

Someone from actual Brentwood (the one in Los Angeles) might just drop in and offer you a cold splash of reality and inform you that your 'Brentwood' is actually an actual 'dump'.

I used to split my time between LA and Vancouver. Want to talk about which properties feel high end in LA?

Your strawman building abilities are un-paralled. Naturally, next claim I will make is that Brentwood, LA is less affluent than Brentwood, Burnaby.

What am I supposed to do with this absurdity?

Secondly - you're posting this on a building forum. Do you consider what building design is based on beyond the base of codes and engineering requirements?

Feel.

Its all in the feel and the emotion a space evokes. If you ever sat down with an architect or designer, this is the start and end of the conversation.
Engineering and code are just realities that need to be worked around to get space just right to evoke the emotions desired.

Either you're understanding of my point but choosing to be obtuse, presumably for your own amusement.

Or.

You don't really know what you're about and looking to come off smarter than you are on an internet forum.

I'll go with the former, to give you benefit of doubt.

It's weird almost to the point of comedy and humor that in the same sentence (and probably breath) that you dismiss "stats" as a tool of proving one's argument and claim, you then almost without skipping a beat go on to throw in a big word like "consensus" as if you doing some sort of high-brow comedy bit to show what an utter lack of self-awareness looks like.

I don't dismiss stats, literally, I been agreeing with you for 3 posts now. Ill reiterate for a 4th time; Metrotown will not only remain Lower Mainland king, but provincial king for years to come.
It will all be in the stats.

You're so busy looking for a disagreement? Why?

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Sure '9 out of 10' people (....that I know) can be described as a 'consensus', but that's not really a consensus writ large.

For that other one, you would need that thing you seem to hate so much....

....ah yes...

Stats.
Sure thing, buddy.
Whatever your 'consensus' and your....'9 out of 10 correspondents and consumers'.... say it is.

Sure.

I really hope you don't communicate with people like this in real life, or there is bound to be some deeply miserable people around you. Not to mention your own mental health.

Take a breather. We don't know each other, and were talking about 2 random malls in a backwater of a City. This isn't important.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by rofina

You realize you're arguing with yourself? Why?

Ill write it in larger format since it appears you missed it before;

If you want to debate stats, I conceded twice that Metrotown will be BC king for a long time.

That's 3 times now. But go ahead - lets do this again.





I used to split my time between LA and Vancouver. Want to talk about which properties feel high end in LA?

Your strawman building abilities are un-paralled. Naturally, next claim I will make is that Brentwood, LA is less affluent than Brentwood, Burnaby.

What am I supposed to do with this absurdity?

Secondly - you're posting this on a building forum. Do you consider what building design is based on beyond the base of codes and engineering requirements?

Feel.

Its all in the feel and the emotion a space evokes. If you ever sat down with an architect or designer, this is the start and end of the conversation.
Engineering and code are just realities that need to be worked around to get space just right to evoke the emotions desired.

Either you're understanding of my point but choosing to be obtuse, presumably for your own amusement.

Or.

You don't really know what you're about and looking to come off smarter than you are on an internet forum.

I'll go with the former, to give you benefit of doubt.



I don't dismiss stats, literally, I been agreeing with you for 3 posts now. Ill reiterate for a 4th time; Metrotown will not only remain Lower Mainland king, but provincial king for years to come.
It will all be in the stats.

You're so busy looking for a disagreement? Why?



I really hope you don't communicate with people like this in real life, or there is bound to be some deeply miserable people around you. Not to mention your own mental health.

Take a breather. We don't know each other, and were talking about 2 random malls in a backwater of a City. This isn't important.

Says I'm arguing with myself and then proceeds to respond to my post in a point-by-point rebutting format.

Utter.
Lack.
Of Self-awareness.

It practically just writes itself.

Originally Posted by rofina

>>>>"What am I supposed to do with this absurdity? "

Maybe not point a lantern at it and use it as an opening to let the whole world know you lived in LA (for what reason, who knows?).

Just a thought.

Also, I too have lived in LA and Vancouver (as I am now) - which is probably why Brentwood in LA came to mind first for me as an example, And I'm sure if Montreal or New York had Brentwoods (where I've lived as well), those two might have served as comparison before that.

It was a throwaway example based on name similarity and the differences in how people from different places have different taste levels, and not an invitation to another argument or pissing contest over whose knowledge of high-end LA neighborhoods is superior.

Geeez.

Originally Posted by rofina

Its all in the feel and the emotion a space evokes. If you ever sat down with an architect or designer, this is the start and end of the conversation.
Engineering and code are just realities that need to be worked around to get space just right to evoke the emotions desired.

I wish you knew what I do for a living just to place this quote of yours in its proper context of just how condescending and (HILARIOUSLY) oblivious and clueless you sound.

But why stop you?
You're on a roll, here.

Regardless let's nip this right here.
While this indeed has been fun and amusing, you probably had it right the second time.
I have no problem admitting that I don't know what I'm talking about half the time and can be (/have been) accused of trying to look smarter than I am a lot of that time.
....
Something I'm sure no one has ever accused you of.


Feel free to help yourself to the last word, if that's the sort of thing that rocks your jolly.

[Marshal]

Stop the stupid argument. I feel most of everyone else (anecdotally) does not want to read this crap.

Originally Posted by rofina

Do you consider what building design is based on beyond the base of codes and engineering requirements?

If you ever sat down with an architect or designer, this is the start and end of the conversation.

As an architect who has taught architecture and knows many many other architects, and just for everyone else's general understanding, both of these statements are just plain dumb.

[SpongeG]

McDonald's opens next week!

2021-08-31_11-37-10 by snub_you, on Flickr

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

McDonald's opens next week!

Micky D's will really give Brentwood that luxury 'feel'

For the record, I couldn't care less about luxury and I love McDonald's, so I'm not being snobbish.

[Klazu]

I forget, what was the reason that the McDonald's has sat completed and empty for the last six months?

[yvrTAB2]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I forget, what was the reason that the McDonald's has sat completed and empty for the last six months?

Some parts were needed but not available for awhile due to covid.
I'm guessing security cams as they only recently added those last month

[rofina]

Originally Posted by Marshal

Stop the stupid argument. I feel most of everyone else (anecdotally) does not want to read this crap.



As an architect who has taught architecture and knows many many other architects, and just for everyone else's general understanding, both of these statements are just plain dumb.

Do elaborate.

Why is Westbank putting up The Butterfly, Kengo Kuma, Vancouver House?

Because the floor plates, tower shapes, and sizes allow for maximum utility and efficiency?

Or is it something else behind the arguably unnecessarily elaborate designs, and if so, what would that purpose be?

[rofina]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

Says I'm arguing with myself and then proceeds to respond to my post in a point-by-point rebutting format.

Utter.
Lack.
Of Self-awareness.

It practically just writes itself.




Maybe not point a lantern at it and use it as an opening to let the whole world know you lived in LA (for what reason, who knows?).

Just a thought.

Also, I too have lived in LA and Vancouver (as I am now) - which is probably why Brentwood in LA came to mind first for me as an example, And I'm sure if Montreal or New York had Brentwoods (where I've lived as well), those two might have served as comparison before that.

It was a throwaway example based on name similarity and the differences in how people from different places have different taste levels, and not an invitation to another argument or pissing contest over whose knowledge of high-end LA neighborhoods is superior.

Geeez.




I wish you knew what I do for a living just to place this quote of yours in its proper context of just how condescending and (HILARIOUSLY) oblivious and clueless you sound.

But why stop you?
You're on a roll, here.

Regardless let's nip this right here.
While this indeed has been fun and amusing, you probably had it right the second time.
I have no problem admitting that I don't know what I'm talking about half the time and can be (/have been) accused of trying to look smarter than I am a lot of that time.
....
Something I'm sure no one has ever accused you of.


Feel free to help yourself to the last word, if that's the sort of thing that rocks your jolly.

Kudos man.

You won this fishing expedition.

Well played.

[SpongeG]

Suit Supply has changed its signage to say Coming 2022.

[jasonpark]

Walked past the REC room. Still super busy, the hype hasn’t died down at all. Early success at the new parts of Brentwood. Excited to see what they have in store for the next batch of towers

[Marshal]

Originally Posted by rofina

Do elaborate.

Why is Westbank putting up The Butterfly, Kengo Kuma, Vancouver House?

Because the floor plates, tower shapes, and sizes allow for maximum utility and efficiency?

Or is it something else behind the arguably unnecessarily elaborate designs, and if so, what would that purpose be?

Don't have much time now, but just start with this: it's always complicated (often overly so) and the architect, as the coordinator of the consulting professionals and the municipal authority of jurisdiction, has a lot of sometimes competing interests to contend with. Add the client's side of things (from financial to marketing) and it gets more so. The design component of the architect's work must be done in line with managing all of it together. So, simple statements like the two quoted just don't align very meaningfully with the reality of how any project gets done. When a good/star architect is involved, conceptual and strong design vocabulary is involved from the start and can play an outsize role. Typically, a foreign (or a star) architect teams with a local production architectural firm which manages the whole while pushing the star's agenda.

The word 'architecture' is thrown around in many ways, but, not all buildings need to be considered architecture. It is helpful to have both buildings (low architecture) and architecture proper where design plays a more significant role. Serious design derives from many different foundations (artistic, theoretical, philosophical, social, etc.). It must still deal with the constraints of each separate project, but when a client is paying the premium, they back the design's prioritization within the mix.

The phrase "arguably unnecessarily elaborate designs" only makes sense from a very narrow value context. After all, any design can be seen as an unnecessary manipulation of the utilitarian function of a thing. This applies across the board, be it in architecture, clothing, industrial design, or the purely design component of SpaceX rockets. But, the other view, and I would argue the fuller view, would say that the design and utility are inseparable. Utility is as abstract as design until design determines a form for it. At that level, for 'high' architecture, design is the point. I would say that the marriage of all factors informing a project to produce the design solution is design itself. Its value and necessity is proven by its being inherent to how human being organizes the world for itself. Design is not a simple overlay upon more concrete aspects.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by Marshal

Don't have much time now, but just start with this: it's always complicated (often overly so) and the architect, as the coordinator of the consulting professionals and the municipal authority of jurisdiction, has a lot of sometimes competing interests to contend with. Add the client's side of things (from financial to marketing) and it gets more so. The design component of the architect's work must be done in line with managing all of it together. So, simple statements like the two quoted just don't align very meaningfully with the reality of how any project gets done. When a good/star architect is involved, conceptual and strong design vocabulary is involved from the start and can play an outsize role. Typically, a foreign (or a star) architect teams with a local production architectural firm which manages the whole while pushing the star's agenda.

The word 'architecture' is thrown around in many ways, but, not all buildings need to be considered architecture. It is helpful to have both buildings (low architecture) and architecture proper where design plays a more significant role. Serious design derives from many different foundations (artistic, theoretical, philosophical, social, etc.). It must still deal with the constraints of each separate project, but when a client is paying the premium, they back the design's prioritization within the mix.

The phrase "arguably unnecessarily elaborate designs" only makes sense from a very narrow value context. After all, any design can be seen as an unnecessary manipulation of the utilitarian function of a thing. This applies across the board, be it in architecture, clothing, industrial design, or the purely design component of SpaceX rockets. But, the other view, and I would argue the fuller view, would say that the design and utility are inseparable. Utility is as abstract as design until design determines a form for it. At that level, for 'high' architecture, design is the point. I would say that the marriage of all factors informing a project to produce the design solution is design itself. Its value and necessity is proven by its being inherent to how human being organizes the world for itself. Design is not a simple overlay upon more concrete aspects.

Thank you for the reply Marshal.

I don't mean to be flippant - but I do hope you know that your response above contradicts your original post.

I don't want to get into a semantics debate, I maintained the use of the word "feel" as a catch all.

Serious design derives from many different foundations (artistic, theoretical, philosophical, social, etc.). It must still deal with the constraints of each separate project

This is what I was alluding to; good design is about understanding site context, project goals, and to design something that "feels" good/luxury/utilitarian/etc, whatever the goal.

My comment about "arguably unnecessarily elaborate designs" was simply to point out that there are reasons beyond the strictly rational as to why someone might choose the materials or design they do. As you say, often that's simple pro-forma calculations to make a project work, other times, as often with residential projects its all about the feel and not the budget. The way light enters a space, the way walls are laid out to highlight artwork, the way a bath is positioned to take advantage of a view, etc.

Rationally - every high rise should be as large and square of a floor plate as possible. Square units. Maximum floor space utilization. Maximum building efficiency.

But people in 2021 don't want to live in Soviet era blocks - because they "feel" drab.

You eloquently illustrated the point I was trying to articulate to Spr0ockets.

[djmk]

Originally Posted by jasonpark

Walked past the REC room. Still super busy, the hype hasn’t died down at all. Early success at the new parts of Brentwood. Excited to see what they have in store for the next batch of towers

I went to the REC room last weekend with my kid. the video games section was super pack but the REC restaurants where dead

I was a little disappointed. Not enough games and too many people.

[ranvancan]

Originally Posted by Vin

Not supposed to discuss about stores in a forum about the newest mall in the Lower Mainland?

Sure, you can start a new interesting topic such as how deep the foundations go for the towers. No one is stopping you.

Ah yes, I understand now how others resent your comments. And yes, mine this time, wasn't exactly a positive one, nonetheless, did not need a comment from the peanut gallery that is you. I simply said without having to completely write it all, that I enjoy all the other posts, such as pictures, comparisons, progress with respect to the physical buildings and development and so on. I simply stated that reading about tenants, are they in or out......ALL THE TIME, was getting monotonous and tedious to read.
I ask that you please try not to engage in conflict with anyone and everyone so often, and maybe then, VIN, you may garner some positive support to your forever gripes about freakin' malls and height.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by ranvancan

Ah yes, I understand now how others resent your comments. And yes, mine this time, wasn't exactly a positive one, nonetheless, did not need a comment from the peanut gallery that is you. I simply said without having to completely write it all, that I enjoy all the other posts, such as pictures, comparisons, progress with respect to the physical buildings and development and so on. I simply stated that reading about tenants, are they in or out......ALL THE TIME, was getting monotonous and tedious to read.
I ask that you please try not to engage in conflict with anyone and everyone so often, and maybe then, VIN, you may garner some positive support to your forever gripes about freakin' malls and height.

What's tedious for you could be interesting for others. Be inclusive. Saying stuff like "boring AF" and "freakin'" aren't helping either. Above all, don't take it to heart. Absorb what others say if you must, but you always have the right to discount others as well. Seriously, this is just a discussion forum.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by djmk

I went to the REC room last weekend with my kid. the video games section was super pack but the REC restaurants where dead

I was a little disappointed. Not enough games and too many people.

Looks like the novelty hasn't worn off for many, which is a good thing. I'm not a gamer but I'm glad there are people who enjoy going there too. What kind of restaurants are in the REC? Pricey perhaps?

Originally Posted by jasonpark

Walked past the REC room. Still super busy, the hype hasn’t died down at all. Early success at the new parts of Brentwood. Excited to see what they have in store for the next batch of towers

I can feel your sentiments, but actually more excited to see what they have in store for the renovation of the interior part of the old mall. Hope they update everything and not leave parts of the "dilapidation" around for people to despise.