Rapid Transit

[TheHonestMaple]

https://www.thespec.com/news/hamilto...september.html

[TheHonestMaple]

I wanted to get a picture of the empty lot where the future LRT maintenance yard will be before it eventually gets ripped up.

[craftbeerdad]

Council will vote next Wednesday (September 8) on the new Memorandum of Understanding for the LRT project.


As discussed and debated before, “Metrolinx confirmed that the City is not responsible for costs incurred by Metrolinx, the Province or third parties, including third-party utilities, in connection with the Project even if such costs exceed the costs of any approved budget for the Project save and except only if the City has agreed to pay such costs.”


TPR Link

[Innsertnamehere]

Thanks. I imagine it'll pass relatively clear along the same lines it passed 2 months ago.

[ScreamingViking]

It should be even more clear cut, with Collins away from the council table on the federal campaign trail.

Expect a rough debate over operating costs though, and ensuring that the agreement won't mean suburban households in Ancaster and Flamborough are shouldering the burden... yet again.

[TheHonestMaple]

I read through the MOU last night in quite a bit of detail. This deal is so good for the City of Hamilton it almost seems like it's too good to be true. Looking forward to seeing the groundbreaking....

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

This deal is so good for the City of Hamilton it almost seems like it's too good to be true

The probable anti-LRT sentiment around council: It *IS* too good to be true. They MUST be trying to pull a fast one here. NOBODY gives Hamilton that much money without a catch.

This town will only get dragged into a new age of transit improvements kicking and screaming. If only it was a sexier topic... Netflix and Amazon would be all over it for new material in the drama genre (though perhaps comedy would be better )

[TheHonestMaple]

I understand that as part of this LRT plan, King would be closed to cars between Catharine St. and Wellington St. Can someone explain to me where the westbound car lanes will then go? Does Main then for that stretch become two way?

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

I understand that as part of this LRT plan, King would be closed to cars between Catharine St. and Wellington St. Can someone explain to me where the westbound car lanes will then go? Does Main then for that stretch become two way?

You can see the plates from the EA that show the expected design: https://www.hamilton.ca/city-plannin...lington-street

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

You can see the plates from the EA that show the expected design: https://www.hamilton.ca/city-plannin...lington-street

hmm not seeing that document, wrong link?

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

I understand that as part of this LRT plan, King would be closed to cars between Catharine St. and Wellington St. Can someone explain to me where the westbound car lanes will then go? Does Main then for that stretch become two way?

If I remember rightly the section in the international village will shrink down to 1 lane WB, since they have all that streetside parking space to work with. The council is so firmly against converting Main back to two ways... for now. Just shows how committed they are to dithering about, really.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by ShavedParmesanCheese

If I remember rightly the section in the international village will shrink down to 1 lane WB, since they have all that streetside parking space to work with. The council is so firmly against converting Main back to two ways... for now. Just shows how committed they are to dithering about, really.

The plans I see actually show King going eastbound for that section.

[Innsertnamehere]

westbound traffic through the core post-LRT will be screwed. It'll get forced up to Wilson and primarily Cannon.

Eastbound will continue to have ridiculous amounts of capacity but if you want to go westbound it'll be very limited under current plans, especially in the further east parts of the lower city where King will be a single lane westbound and alternates on Cannon and Wilson don't really exist.

I think Main needs to be two way at the very least from Gage Park to Victoria / Wellington. East end traffic is just going to be terrible otherwise.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

The plans I see actually show King going eastbound for that section.

This is the correct link sorry: https://www.hamilton.ca/sites/defaul...s-sections.pdf

Starting at page 19 you can see at Catharine that the Eastbound has a single lane, and east bound stops at Wellington and picks back up at Catharine.

[TheHonestMaple]

Yeah I was looking at that plan. It does show that King becomes east bound only through international village, but it isn't clear what happens to westbound traffic for that stretch. I see Wellington remains southbound only, so I am assuming Main Street becomes westbound for that stretch? But I can't find any plans showing that.

Or is Jackson expected to handle all the westbound traffic between Wellington and James?

[ScreamingViking]

Here's the city's LRT page: https://www.hamilton.ca/city-initiat...il-transit-lrt

The 2017 Environmental Project Report Addendum has (I believe) the most up-to-date info. In particular, look at Design drawings/maps (pdf)... pages 19-21 show one eastbound lane on King between Catharine and Wellington. [oops... wasn't as quick on the draw posting this]

I presume westbound traffic will largely be shunted to Cannon or Hunter (Wilson too, though Cannon would probably be the least congested based on its 3 WB lanes)

But this isn't set in stone, so the design and traffic flow through the International Village could change.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Eastbound will continue to have ridiculous amounts of capacity but if you want to go westbound it'll be very limited under current plans, especially in the further east parts of the lower city where King will be a single lane westbound and alternates on Cannon and Wilson don't really exist.

I think Main needs to be two way at the very least from Gage Park to Victoria / Wellington. East end traffic is just going to be terrible otherwise.

Something will have to be done to mitigate the impact. And the traffic planners must know this.

But many on city council will be aghast at losing one half of the "crosstown through-way" that King and Main represent, probably because they haven't really considered all the ramifications yet or delved into the material deeply enough to realize there even are any.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Something will have to be done to mitigate the impact. And the traffic planners must know this.

But many on city council will be aghast at losing one half of the "crosstown through-way" that King and Main represent, probably because they haven't really considered all the ramifications yet or delved into the material deeply enough to realize there even are any.

Most traffic engineering software doesn't properly model permanent removal of road space. When you remove road space you get some traffic displacement, but a not insignificant portion moves to a different mode of transport, whether that be walking, cycling or transit, and many trips disappear. That's also not taking into account that Hamilton's road network is severely overbuilt. We may actually see some more use of Burlington St finally, and people going backward to utilize the RHVP or LINC, and many will shift or change their driving habits.

As it stands, loss of King St will barely affect traffic downtown. You can see this at King and Queen right now. There is a bit of traffic backed up to Bay, but that's only because you have 4 lanes converge to 2 lanes. If it was 2 lanes, or even 1 lane the entire way, you wouldn't see that same constriction.

[Innsertnamehere]

I don’t think disappearing trips should be considered a good thing. Shifted trips, yes, but disappeared means reduced mobility and economic activity.

I live in Lower Stoney Creek - right now I usually drive downtown via king / main. Post LRT I hope to take the LRT when possible, I.e. for my daily commute whenever I end up going back to the office, but when I drive I expect I’ll shift down to the QEW / Burlington St to get into downtown instead as that generally takes the same amount of time as taking king / main right now.

Hamilton is lucky in that it’s road infrastructure in the lower city is generally overbuilt so it has room to absorb traffic, and a lot of it will dissipate with the LRT through converted trips and onto other routes, but I still see issues in a few spots. Specifically the east end, which can probably be fixed by 2-waying Main St, and for access to the 403, which is tougher to fix. Ideally they would extend the 2 lane stretch of King from the 403 as far east as possible, but there isn’t really an easy fix there. I imagine a lot more people will end up taking York for 403 access towards Burlington, but those going to Ancaster will sort of be stuck.

[HamiltonBoyInToronto]

The best solution is to convert Main street to two way from Dundurn to at least King st. E...by gage park (pizza pizza)