Winnipeg | St Boniface | Development

[bomberjet]

It'd be awesome. But as wags said, that place is quite busy with popular tenants.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

It'd be awesome. But as wags said, that place is quite busy with popular tenants.

Agreed. While I can imagine a redevelopment could happen at the site, there are way more empty lots in the Goulet/Marion area that could be developed for cheaper. Those will likely have to go first before land demands make it more financially viable to demolish/significantly disrupt the busy businesses in that mall.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

I agree especially being riverfront, unfortunately it’s not realistic. 80% of those shops are extremely busy and service the neighborhood well.

Originally Posted by bomberjet

It'd be awesome. But as wags said, that place is quite busy with popular tenants.

Busy shops being there aren’t really that big a factor, you see businesses doing well booted all the time to make way for bigger/better/new development. The potential loss of rent would be factored in and more than made up for when the replacement is 10x the square footage. Often tenants (esp. nationals like Shoppers, McDonalds) would come back because the location is that good - or would be worked into a phased plan. Tear down west of shoppers for phase 1, then shift for example. Sometimes there’s tenants like Boyd that really aren’t the best use for the site, especially when it comes to redevelopment.

Generally the hold back on something like this here would be a legacy owner, sometimes smaller, who isn’t interested in the fuss amd happy to collect their check. Big redevelopments happen most of the time as the result of the sale, so when the owner may decide time is right to sell - you bet most developers would be interested for the redevelopment potential.

Originally Posted by WildCake

Agreed. While I can imagine a redevelopment could happen at the site, there are way more empty lots in the Goulet/Marion area that could be developed for cheaper. Those will likely have to go first before land demands make it more financially viable to demolish/significantly disrupt the busy businesses in that mall.

Unfortunately most of the surface lots in Norwood are owned by the hospital or hospital adjacent organizations that probably have zero interest in giving up their free employee/visitor parking.

[bomberjet]

The hospital (or WRHA) owns most, if not all, the parking across the street.

They also own the lot immediately south of the hospital. But the lot that is east of the dominion centre appears to be owned by someone else.

That's why I was wondering if there is a long term plan for these lots. With the new parkade going up, that could make some of the surface lots expendable.

[BAKGUY]

Originally Posted by esquire

It isn't a question of what's there right now, it's a question of what more could be there. And based on development trends it seems reasonable to conclude that demand exists for a lot more capacity on that site.

For an example of what I'm talking about, look at Bonnie Doon Mall in Edmonton. Fully functional local mall along the lines of Grant Park here, but the site was so good that it spawned this redevelopment plan:



I'm not saying that something exactly on this scale would be built there, but it shows how a functional retail centre could still be redeveloped into something else if the demand exists.

Well, this or slightly scaled down would be ideal. Not enough people with this kind of vision and forward thinking that have the $$ to back it up.It will likely be an Alberta investor if something like this ever happens. Being prime real estate on the river, close to downtown, Tejh Forks etc, this would be popular to rent or buy in.

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by BAKGUY

Well, this or slightly scaled down would be ideal. Not enough people with this kind of vision and forward thinking that have the $$ to back it up.It will likely be an Alberta investor if something like this ever happens. Being prime real estate on the river, close to downtown, Tejh Forks etc, this would be popular to rent or buy in.

Now THAT is what the Kapyong redevelopment should look like.

[esquire]

Or at least part of it, if not the whole thing.

I'm not a big fan of large parcels of land coming on the market at once...it tends to become low density. That's why I'm not keen on rail line relocation. You get the rail lines out without a real market impetus for it, and all of those yards will be developed into Kapyong clones... a bunch of lowrise apartments and big box retail ringing big parking lots.

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by esquire

Or at least part of it, if not the whole thing.

I'm not a big fan of large parcels of land coming on the market at once...it tends to become low density. That's why I'm not keen on rail line relocation. You get the rail lines out without a real market impetus for it, and all of those yards will be developed into Kapyong clones... a bunch of lowrise apartments and big box retail ringing big parking lots.

According to the master plan Kapyong Barracks should still have 3,000 units within 160 acres which if we use low end population projections and say 5,000 people will live there that makes a very respectable density of 8,333 people/km2. Pair that with all of the active transportation lanes this should be a quite walkable area as well. I mean I wasn’t expecting a reincarnation of Osborne Village there lol.

However, I fully expect the Southwood lands to have high density development akin to the picture throughout the majority of the area.

[esquire]

^ I take your point, but density should be more than just a number. Otherwise the apartment blocks in the outlet mall parking lot would be a perfect urban neighbourhood that leaves nothing to be desired, and I doubt anyone thinks that it is.

If you look at this site plan you see a lot of squandered land. The more land there is, the stronger the tendency to use it all up by spreading everything very thin. You would think they could have at least built up the intersection of Grant at Kenaston, and Grant at Taylor.

[thebasketballgeek]

You make a great point, but I wouldn’t call the greenery and wetlands wasted space they should be essential for the character of the area.

The place with the most wasted space is definitely the commercial space lining up through Kenaston. That area seems like there was no thought put into it and should have much more mixed use within that area. The rest of that space is unfortunately going to be surface parking lots because of the goddamn parking minimums.

[zalf]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

The rest of that space is unfortunately going to be surface parking lots because of the goddamn parking minimums.

Do parking minimums apply here? That's a (stupid and bad) City rule, which wouldn't apply to the Treaty 1 lands, right?

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by zalf

Do parking minimums apply here? That's a (stupid and bad) City rule, which wouldn't apply to the Treaty 1 lands, right?

Whether the rule applies or not isn't really a question anymore, you can see all the planned parking lots near the pink buildings along kenaston. They just used a brownish/green colour instead grey so they don't stick out on the site plan.

It will basically looks like any other suburban/semi urban development.

[wags_in_the_peg]

St B discussion has turned into Treaty 1 / Kapyoong discussion? Boy the French would be so upset if on here! 😉

[bomberjet]

What's the proportion of French vs Metis in St. B? Maybe they're not so upset hahaha

My wife's from St. B. Metis. Seriously everyone they know that is "French" is also Metis.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

My wife's from St. B. Metis. Seriously everyone they know that is "French" is also Metis.

A friend of mine from a Franco-Manitoban town says the same thing!

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

St B discussion has turned into Treaty 1 / Kapyoong discussion? Boy the French would be so upset if on here! 😉

Hey, at least things are being built on the South side.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by esquire

A friend of mine from a Franco-Manitoban town says the same thing!

I’m French but not Métis. And I know quite a few people in the same boat. Those who are saying that are grossly exaggerating, or don’t get out of their close social circles enough lol

[bomberjet]

My original comment was in jest. haha Genuinely curious what the numbers are though.

[Only The Lonely..]

Plan for Esplanade Riel space faces critics but gets approval from Winnipeg city council committee
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...ator-1.6175637



St.B Nimby's at it again.

I hate to be the one to say it, but if it were Enterprises Riel moving in they would be all for it.

Their 'issue' is with a non-francophone organization in a hallowed St.B space.

Like the Old St.B City Hall, the 'community' would rather keep the space abandoned than have someone who isn't francophone using it.

[esquire]

Restaurants kept failing, they clearly need to try something else.