Hwy 99 Fraser River Tunnel (George Massey Replacement) | Proposed

[Lexus]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

I think you've miscounted - ....tunnel.

Post corrected to 8 bikes. good catch, thanks. I've asked the driver, basically no one really using this service.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Instead of a 35km project including 10 lanes of bridge, 2 interchanges, and some other upgrades, we get a 4 billion dollar bridge?

I wish media would call this out loud and grill the Transportation Minister on how is this a better solution for anyone, especially the tax-payer. Nobody seems eager to ask tough questions anymore.

Also, how can there be over three more years of environmental study to do? It was completed for the bridge and they have had years to do it for the tunnel as well. This is no real announcement and just election talk since the start date is beyond next election. There is no guarantee if anything getting going.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by Lexus

Post corrected to 8 bikes. good catch, thanks. I've asked the driver, basically no one really using this service.

Well, that's not surprising. There's scarce bike infrastructure in Delta, Ladner and Richmond. Your options on either side of the River involve either taking Dyke trails which are really bumping or taking your life into Gods hands by cycling on rural roads or River Road, beside passing traffic going in excess of 80km/hr.

It's hilariously stupid to waste money on a third tunnel for bikes/pedestrians for this reason.

Also the Northern side will now have a curvier approach. BC engineering at its best.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

That was a one of the reasons just incase that channel became a more utilized shipping channel, it was also to allow dangerous goods to be able to use the crossing.

Also, call me crazy, but when I cycle I mix BC prefer riding my bike high over a river with breathtaking views of surrounding scenery than riding through a submerged tunnel…

Also the weather protection argument of the tunnel doesn’t work here because on either side of it you are riding in the elements for long distances anyways.

Wasn't there the whole soil liquefaction thing too since the current tunnel is an immersed tube and can easily get dislodged and disconnected?

This tunnel does not look like it will be bored and will just be another immersed tube.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Yeah, I think that's exactly why the MOT provides the shuttle service.

The shuttle service is pretty inconvenient. If you're commuting daily from Ladner to Richmond like Zahav, you can plan to arrive at the shuttle pickup spot right before it leaves. If you are taking a ride for recreation or want to cross the river on the spur of the moment, your trip could more than double if you need to wait for the shuttle. With that frequency, a cyclist is almost better off riding the long way around.

[Vin]

I think deep down, the NDP knows the previous Liberal government came up with a way more superior option. But of course, in order to save face, they need to come up with this lousy option. Not surprised they do that, as BC'ers are known to pick the worst of the lot under duress.

Also, the NDP does not have the funds to build this, unlike the Liberals who had the Port Mann Bridge tolled to secure funding for the crossing, which would've been completed by next year. The NDP is sneaky to announce the decision now, in the hopes that, due to the upcoming Federal elections, funding would come from Ottawa, since this BC government is too proud to beg for the dough.

[Mininari]

Originally Posted by Vin

I think deep down, the NDP knows the previous Liberal government came up with a way more superior option. But of course, in order to save face, they need to come up with this lousy option. Not surprised they do that, as BC'ers are known to pick the worst of the lot under duress.

Also, the NDP does not have the funds to build this, unlike the Liberals who had the Port Mann Bridge tolled to secure funding for the crossing, which would've been completed by next year. The NDP is sneaky to announce the decision now, in the hopes that, due to the upcoming Federal elections, funding would come from Ottawa, since this BC government is too proud to beg for the dough.

Don't forget the "Community Benefits" need to be funded. We've seen major project costs pushed up by the "approved union labour only" clause ~30% around the Province (e.g. Kicking Horse Canyon - Phase 4, Patullo Bridge etc.) -- and commensurate scope reductions to compensate for that (e.g. Patullo Surrey-side bridgehead interchange downgrade).

Hmm.... scope reduction on H-99?, ya don't say...

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by whatnext

LOL, yes of course, that explains all those tent cities on Hwy 1.

oh please tell me where another pedestrian/bike only tunnel is along highway 1! i would love to know!

this is the same city that closed down a much shorter, more used, and better located pedestrian tunnel in downtown vancouver for safety reasons...

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

this is the same city that closed down a much shorter, more used, and better located pedestrian tunnel in downtown vancouver for safety reasons...

Technically Vancouver, Richmond and Delta are three entirely different cities.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

oh please tell me where another pedestrian/bike only tunnel is along highway 1! i would love to know!

this is the same city that closed down a much shorter, more used, and better located pedestrian tunnel in downtown vancouver for safety reasons...

The fact that there’s a huge difference between a pedestrian tunnel downtown and a freeway tunnel out in the suburbs shouldn’t need to be explained.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Wasn't there the whole soil liquefaction thing too since the current tunnel is an immersed tube and can easily get dislodged and disconnected?

This tunnel does not look like it will be bored and will just be another immersed tube.

Engineering has changed in the last few decades. There's lots of modern immersed tube tunnels with similar soil/seismic conditions.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

...There's scarce bike infrastructure in Delta, Ladner and Richmond. Your options on either side of the River involve either taking Dyke trails which are really bumping or taking your life into Gods hands by cycling on rural roads or River Road, beside passing traffic going in excess of 80km/hr.

You've got to start somewhere. We're building a new piece of major infrastructure like this and it's supposed to last for 60 years in an environment where new bike paths are being added across the region every year and bike ridership is increasing as these routes become available. Seems to me that it would be pretty stupid not to provide for it.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

You've got to start somewhere. We're building a new piece of major infrastructure like this and it's supposed to last for 60 years in an environment where new bike paths are being added across the region every year and bike ridership is increasing as these routes become available. Seems to me that it would be pretty stupid not to provide for it.

So when there's 20 people riding through it a day it's determined to be a success?

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

So when there's 20 people riding through it a day it's determined to be a success?

"Yeah I'll totally walk from Ladner to the movies in Richmond."

[Migrant_Coconut]

If you're in the cinema before sundown, you're in the minority.

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

So when there's 20 people riding through it a day it's determined to be a success?

Sounds like the Millennium line when it first opened.

Ron.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

So when there's 20 people riding through it a day it's determined to be a success?

Yeah, seeing those photos of the shuttle and its schedule really shows that only few dozen people cycle on this corridor today. Even if the new tunnel increases that by tenfold, we are only talking about 200-300 bicycles a day which is NOTHING. Tens of millions of dollars to appease a minuscule portion of the populace.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by whatnext

The fact that there’s a huge difference between a pedestrian tunnel downtown and a freeway tunnel out in the suburbs shouldn’t need to be explained.

so you still haven't told me about these pedestrian tunnels on Hwy 1.

come on now, tell me where they are so i can look into how they work and if there are any issues with them. but you conveniently ignored that part eh

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Yeah, seeing those photos of the shuttle and its schedule really shows that only few dozen people cycle on this corridor today. Even if the new tunnel increases that by tenfold, we are only talking about 200-300 bicycles a day which is NOTHING. Tens of millions of dollars to appease a minuscule portion of the populace.

So we should stop putting in wheelchair ramps because it's only such a small fraction of people who need them? Or stop putting Braille on the elevators and chirpers at the intersections?

And how much does it really cost? We're primarily talking about the cost to construct the tunnel modules, the actual installation is not going to be that much different. Is it really going to cost that much more? And spread over 60 years, is the annual cost really going to be all that prohibitive?

Like it or not, providing access for pedestrians and cyclists is now a basic infrastructure design standard, just like providing for the deaf and mobility-impaired. I'm glad to live in a Canada where "no man gets left behind" rather than deal with the all-too-common "every man for himself" mentality in a certain neighboring country.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

So we should stop putting in wheelchair ramps because it's only such a small fraction of people who need them? Or stop putting Braille on the elevators and chirpers at the intersections?

And how much does it really cost? We're primarily talking about the cost to construct the tunnel modules, the actual installation is not going to be that much different. Is it really going to cost that much more? And spread over 60 years, is the annual cost really going to be all that prohibitive?

Like it or not, providing access for pedestrians and cyclists is now a basic infrastructure design standard, just like providing for the deaf and mobility-impaired. I'm glad to live in a Canada where "no man gets left behind" rather than deal with the all-too-common "every man for himself" mentality in a certain neighboring country.

Especially given the rise in popularity of e-bikes, which make cycling long distances easier. Fixing gaps in cycling infrastructure with projects like this is a great way to give more people more options, and given the low cost it's a no-brainer, really.

We need to give more people more options that allow them to not use a single occupancy vehicle to get around, and this is one good option.